Am I being worked illegally?
Discussion
Hello,
I am a university student who recently got a job at the pub chain
. The staff are great even my managers are easy to get along with, the pay could be better being just over minimum wage for an 18 year old (which I am). However, there are a few things that are playing on my mind and I cant help but wonder whether my employers are legally within their rights to do so.
On Friday and Saturday night the pub turns into more of a club atmosphere with a dance floor, dj etc. As you can imagine it get very messy and is a big job to clean up. After we kick out all the customers for the pub at 2am we have to start the clear up job, the company pays me until 3am. However, more often than not we find ourselves not finishing the clear up until near 4am, resulting in us working an hour not paid. Now, I can imagine their reasoning for not paying us would be that they expect us to finish clearing up by 3am, but this from experience is a near impossible job.
Are they allowed to do this? and if not how can I address this issue anonymously as like I previously said I get on really well with the staff and do not want to jeopardise friendships within the work place.
Thank you
ETA
No names please.
I am a university student who recently got a job at the pub chain
. The staff are great even my managers are easy to get along with, the pay could be better being just over minimum wage for an 18 year old (which I am). However, there are a few things that are playing on my mind and I cant help but wonder whether my employers are legally within their rights to do so.On Friday and Saturday night the pub turns into more of a club atmosphere with a dance floor, dj etc. As you can imagine it get very messy and is a big job to clean up. After we kick out all the customers for the pub at 2am we have to start the clear up job, the company pays me until 3am. However, more often than not we find ourselves not finishing the clear up until near 4am, resulting in us working an hour not paid. Now, I can imagine their reasoning for not paying us would be that they expect us to finish clearing up by 3am, but this from experience is a near impossible job.
Are they allowed to do this? and if not how can I address this issue anonymously as like I previously said I get on really well with the staff and do not want to jeopardise friendships within the work place.
Thank you
ETA
No names please.
Edited by Big Al. on Thursday 27th November 17:23
No they cant. simple. You get paid what you work and you what what you are paid. Many companies tend to try this on with young staff and get away with it. Talk to them and then look for another job if they still do this. Remember your boss aint your mate - they are trying to meet targets cut costs and whatever so will try and have you work for nothing.
Also you say you are clearing up - what are you being exposed to with clearing up ? are you inoculated ? In that line of work exposure to saliva and blood Id be included to have myself jabbed....
Also you say you are clearing up - what are you being exposed to with clearing up ? are you inoculated ? In that line of work exposure to saliva and blood Id be included to have myself jabbed....
Maybe say something like:
"Hey, can I have a word? I just wanted to say I'm really enjoying my time here, but there's been something that's been aggrevating me." Then just talk to him about the issue and working an hour twice a week unpaid and that at that time in the morning after a hard slog it's not really very good and see what he comes back with.
"Hey, can I have a word? I just wanted to say I'm really enjoying my time here, but there's been something that's been aggrevating me." Then just talk to him about the issue and working an hour twice a week unpaid and that at that time in the morning after a hard slog it's not really very good and see what he comes back with.
leemanning said:
Maybe say something like:
"Hey, can I have a word? I just wanted to say I'm really enjoying my time here, but there's been something that's been aggrevating me." Then just talk to him about the issue and working an hour twice a week unpaid and that at that time in the morning after a hard slog it's not really very good and see what he comes back with.
This is usually the point your 'matey' manager either "Hey, can I have a word? I just wanted to say I'm really enjoying my time here, but there's been something that's been aggrevating me." Then just talk to him about the issue and working an hour twice a week unpaid and that at that time in the morning after a hard slog it's not really very good and see what he comes back with.
a) genuinely listens to your concerns
b) pretends to listen and does nothing about it
c) drops the act and reveals himself to be a bit of a knob
I know if I was working unpaid overtime I'd certainly raise it, but then I do have the luxury of being in a highly unionised industry.
Anima said:
megaphone said:
Do you have a contract?
A casual contract, as it only part time. Work a zero hour rota as well if that's any help
You need to decide if you're happy to bend over and take it, or, stand your ground and potentially screw yourself! Maybe this Saturday tell them that you need to go at 3am, you can't stay after your shift as you need it get up, do that for a few weeks and see what happens. You'll have to forgo after work drinks etc.
megaphone said:
Anima said:
megaphone said:
Do you have a contract?
A casual contract, as it only part time. Work a zero hour rota as well if that's any help
You need to decide if you're happy to bend over and take it, or, stand your ground and potentially screw yourself! Maybe this Saturday tell them that you need to go at 3am, you can't stay after your shift as you need it get up, do that for a few weeks and see what happens. You'll have to forgo after work drinks etc.
Anima said:
megaphone said:
Anima said:
megaphone said:
Do you have a contract?
A casual contract, as it only part time. Work a zero hour rota as well if that's any help
You need to decide if you're happy to bend over and take it, or, stand your ground and potentially screw yourself! Maybe this Saturday tell them that you need to go at 3am, you can't stay after your shift as you need it get up, do that for a few weeks and see what happens. You'll have to forgo after work drinks etc.
Another option, write anonymously to M&B head office, they must have a personnel department, most have a channel for employees to report problems, I'm sure you where told about it in your 'training'! See if anything happens over the coming weeks.
HenryJM said:
Of course in a practical sense what may easily happen is if you question it you may find that your zero hours become just that, zero.
Whatever the regulations may be, there are a lot of situations like this where you like it and stay, if you don't like it you leave.
Agreed, I imagine they would respond by cutting hours.Whatever the regulations may be, there are a lot of situations like this where you like it and stay, if you don't like it you leave.
megaphone said:
Another option, write anonymously to head office, they must have a personnel department, most have a channel for employees to report problems, I'm sure you where told about it in your 'training'! See if anything happens over the coming weeks.
This is probably the most practical option. head office, they must have a personnel department, most have a channel for employees to report problems, I'm sure you where told about it in your 'training'! See if anything happens over the coming weeks.Anima said:
Okay, thanks I'll give it a go, but I get the feeling they really won't take the comment seriously, but i'll post on this thread again with how it all pans out.
Guarantee nothing will change, not for the better anyway. I'll give it a go, but I get the feeling they really won't take the comment seriously, but i'll post on this thread again with how it all pans out.No they shouldn't do it, but they do because they can. You don't want to do it? You'll be told to go find another job.
You think they don't KNOW you're working more hours than you're paid for?
As for the poster saying you get paid for what you work and work what you get paid; how do you think junior doctors would respond to that?
Out of interest, do you get any fringe benefits out of the situation?
The last pub I worked in as a student (20 years ago!
) had a similar situation in that we weren't paid after hours on a Thursday when we cleaned all the lines ahead of the weekend.
We did, however, get all the drink we pulled out of the lines for free, and with an upstairs bar as well, that amounted to way more than the pay would've been!
The last pub I worked in as a student (20 years ago!
) had a similar situation in that we weren't paid after hours on a Thursday when we cleaned all the lines ahead of the weekend.We did, however, get all the drink we pulled out of the lines for free, and with an upstairs bar as well, that amounted to way more than the pay would've been!
What do the other staff say to it? If everyone else is happy with the situation/really needs the job you might be on a hiding. Perhaps it would be easier to convince someone else to ask the boss? 
When I worked in a pub (managed by one of the largest chains in the country) we were paid accurately to the 1/4 hour.
When I worked in a pub (managed by one of the largest chains in the country) we were paid accurately to the 1/4 hour.
Almost certainly illegal (I'm guessing an hour free at the end of a shift will effectively put you under the national minimum wage).
But back in the real world, if you like the job and its convenient for your current circumstances, you may be best to suck it up and just get on with it.
But back in the real world, if you like the job and its convenient for your current circumstances, you may be best to suck it up and just get on with it.
Guy I know who worked in a tourism job in Cambridge (only made money on tips, but were employed - i.e. PAYE slip reflected tips not hours if that makes sense?) worked out that over the summer he was quite under minimum wage. He'd casually mentioned it during the year but was told that it would pick up and level out, excuse excuse, blah blah blah
He'd recorded his hours, his pay, and took the gaffer to court over the difference at the end of the season.
Seems a pragmatic way of not getting stiffed out of the 0 hour contract, as as others have said, if you say anything too strong you may find your shifts dry up.
Burns a bridge and 'sharp practice' against an employer, but ultimately if they aren't paying min wage & the only reason you don't feel able to make a proper complaint is that you think you'll lose hours, then you aren't being sharp, they are.
To be honest the 0 hour 'shafting' of min wage staff is a problem with UK labour market. IT's not on, it's Victorian era rubbish. If employers played by the book they'd not expose themselves to this sort of carry on, and believe me a small claims notice will make them sit up and think about how they do things next time for other people like you.
The employer in Cambridge isn't exposed to a 'claimback' anymore, as he's not effectively stealing from the staff and pocketing their cash.
As others have said, they know you're doing more hours than are paid but are happy for you to do so. Not a fair game.
He'd recorded his hours, his pay, and took the gaffer to court over the difference at the end of the season.
Seems a pragmatic way of not getting stiffed out of the 0 hour contract, as as others have said, if you say anything too strong you may find your shifts dry up.
Burns a bridge and 'sharp practice' against an employer, but ultimately if they aren't paying min wage & the only reason you don't feel able to make a proper complaint is that you think you'll lose hours, then you aren't being sharp, they are.
To be honest the 0 hour 'shafting' of min wage staff is a problem with UK labour market. IT's not on, it's Victorian era rubbish. If employers played by the book they'd not expose themselves to this sort of carry on, and believe me a small claims notice will make them sit up and think about how they do things next time for other people like you.
The employer in Cambridge isn't exposed to a 'claimback' anymore, as he's not effectively stealing from the staff and pocketing their cash.
As others have said, they know you're doing more hours than are paid but are happy for you to do so. Not a fair game.
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