Leave UK, Work in Europe

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scherzkeks

4,460 posts

133 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
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DJRC said:
Doing it is a complete challenge. I love it. Oh, you also earn more, pay less tax and the quality of life is in a different league!
Agree with comments on quality of life in many Euro countries, but as a US expat living in Germany, I can assure you, you need to learn German to work in many office environments. And in day-to-day living, if you can't keep up in conversation, you will get lonely in the long term.

Not sure about France, but I'd be hesitant to move anywhere with the expectation that I can do everything in my native tongue.

evenflow

Original Poster:

8,784 posts

281 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
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Thanks for all the replies.

Update...

Thanks to PHer mikef, I have secured an interview with a company in Zurich. For all its niggles, this place still rocks!

Thanks so much mikef!

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
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scherzkeks said:
DJRC said:
Doing it is a complete challenge. I love it. Oh, you also earn more, pay less tax and the quality of life is in a different league!
Agree with comments on quality of life in many Euro countries, but as a US expat living in Germany, I can assure you, you need to learn German to work in many office environments. And in day-to-day living, if you can't keep up in conversation, you will get lonely in the long term.

Not sure about France, but I'd be hesitant to move anywhere with the expectation that I can do everything in my native tongue.
I can assure you...you don't. But then I speak English and not American. You don't even need to in Switzerland and that is far more of a Nazi place than Germany! Language necessities are things you pick up as you go along.

scherzkeks

4,460 posts

133 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
quotequote all
DJRC said:
I can assure you...you don't. But then I speak English and not American. You don't even need to in Switzerland and that is far more of a Nazi place than Germany! Language necessities are things you pick up as you go along.
Business English is typically American. And after 10 years here, I can assure you, again, that if you think you can get by in most industries with just English, you are sadly mistaken. There are always expats that manage to live in a little bubble though. Guess that's you.

SwissJonese

1,393 posts

174 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
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scherzkeks said:
Business English is typically American. And after 10 years here, I can assure you, again, that if you think you can get by in most industries with just English, you are sadly mistaken. There are always expats that manage to live in a little bubble though. Guess that's you.
Spend 6 years in Switzerland and didn't learn Swiss German, zero issues. Have friends in Switzerland and Germany that have spent longer there and they have had no problem only speaking English. In fact we found every time trying to speak to locals in their native languages they prefer speaking English to improve their skills

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
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SwissJonese said:
scherzkeks said:
Business English is typically American. And after 10 years here, I can assure you, again, that if you think you can get by in most industries with just English, you are sadly mistaken. There are always expats that manage to live in a little bubble though. Guess that's you.
Spend 6 years in Switzerland and didn't learn Swiss German, zero issues. Have friends in Switzerland and Germany that have spent longer there and they have had no problem only speaking English. In fact we found every time trying to speak to locals in their native languages they prefer speaking English to improve their skills
Don't be silly, scherzkeks has told us we are wrong!!!

Its always an amusing challenge for me to try and keep them in their own language rather than switching into English smile I did manage to keep the conversation with the receptionist at the Rome airport Marriot entirely in Italian this week! I was extremely chuffed with that as I really don't speak Italian at all, but she kept it simple deliberately for me and I followed it! She smiled and said well done in perfect English at the end and we were both chuffed about it.

Anyway back to the sprechen'ing or not of Deutsch. Lets be honest, as those of us who have slummed it with the Swiss know Hochdeutsch doesn't really count, anyone can handle it - even Americans. Now Bern-Deutsch...thats where its at! Master living with that lot, doing your shopping and interacting with people who speak a language that is basically gargling with gravel and have no concept of "having a laugh and joke about it" and then you can have something to write home about.

And 10yrs Mr keks? Give us a bell when you have 20 under your belt.

krallicious

4,312 posts

204 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
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It all depends where you live I think.

I learnt my German in Bern (Hochdeutsch) and when I moved there in 2008 I spoke enough German to just get by. Ordering food etc but a full on conversation was out of the question. After 3 months, I moved to a tiny village on the French/German speaking boarder. 'My' village spoke German and the one about 1km along the road spoke only French but understood you if you spoke German. English was not entertained at all.

I moved back to the UK for a year and then to Frankfurt. Even though English is widely spoken you need to speak German if you want to make friends and really enjoy the place.

I am now fluent but when I go back to Bern I can only understand every 4th or 5th word as the accent is so thick. Ironically I used to be able to understand virtually everything when my German was a lot worse.

Switzerland is a lovely place but the Swiss grated on me after a while. There is a saying that I have heard a few times 'Switzerland is a great country ruined by the Swiss'.

Having said that, after leaving the UK you will probably not want to go back.

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
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Krall...you learnt Hochdeutsch in Bern????????????????????? Say what??!!!???!!??!!

Bern is the one place in Switzerland where if you speak Hoch at them they look at you in disgust! I even had one shop owner who refused to serve me when I said Gruezi in a momentary lapse instead of Gruessa and that was just Zurideutsch instead of Bernese! Bonjour was more acceptable...

Steve7777

235 posts

148 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
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You can definitely live in Geneva speaking only GCSE French. The salaries are much higher than the UK and the mountains and travel opportunities on the doorstep are incredible. I'm amazed more people don't move out here.

krallicious

4,312 posts

204 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
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DJRC said:
Krall...you learnt Hochdeutsch in Bern????????????????????? Say what??!!!???!!??!!

Bern is the one place in Switzerland where if you speak Hoch at them they look at you in disgust! I even had one shop owner who refused to serve me when I said Gruezi in a momentary lapse instead of Gruessa and that was just Zurideutsch instead of Bernese! Bonjour was more acceptable...
Someone needed to see if was possible hehe

Most of them were OK when I spoke in Hochdeutsch. They seemed more arsey when a German spoke in hochdeutsch though.

I did have an odd experience in Altdorf about 1.5 years ago. Some locals were being quite rude when I asked them to speak a little slower as their dialect was very thick. After I showed them my passport they were very friendly and said they thought that I was German. I enjoyed a very drunken evening with them afterwards but the Swiss seem to have a big problem with the Germans.

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Sunday 25th January 2015
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Thats true enough Krall. Found that both in Zuri and Bern. They really don't like the Germans, esp those who have come to work in Switzerland.
Following Bernese was just impossible, so I listened out for keywords that fit in with the verbal transaction I was engaged in.

Across the Rossti I was generally fine with their French, except the Vaud mob. In 18months of working there every day I never got to grips with the Vaud accent.

krallicious

4,312 posts

204 months

Monday 26th January 2015
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I always found the Valais accent was impossible to understand. I remember my German teacher saying he had a lot of trouble with it too. It sounded like Berndeutsch mixed with a cold and benzodiazepines hehe

dcb

5,834 posts

264 months

Monday 26th January 2015
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krallicious said:
I always found the Valais accent was impossible to understand. I remember my German teacher saying he had a lot of trouble with it too. It sounded like Berndeutsch mixed with a cold and benzodiazepines hehe
Over in Austrian Tirol, one lady told me that in former times,
each separate valley had a slightly different accent.

Of course, now, with national TV from Vienna for decades, it's all the same.


scherzkeks

4,460 posts

133 months

Monday 26th January 2015
quotequote all
DJRC said:
Don't be silly, scherzkeks has told us we are wrong!!!
No, I've pointed out that there are many industries in which one cannot get by with English only, and there are many, many things one cannot do in English here. A simple trip to the Ausländerbehörde will absolve you of that on day one. The rest of my point is pretty understandable to anyone not prone to knee-jerk emotional outbursts.

DJRC said:
Its always an amusing challenge for me to try and keep them in their own language rather than switching into English smile
There is a reason they switch when you are talking, I suspect.




krallicious

4,312 posts

204 months

Monday 26th January 2015
quotequote all
dcb said:
Over in Austrian Tirol, one lady told me that in former times,
each separate valley had a slightly different accent.

Of course, now, with national TV from Vienna for decades, it's all the same.
Very true but there are still very distinct changes in dialect between the West and East Tirol.

scherzkeks

4,460 posts

133 months

Monday 26th January 2015
quotequote all
krallicious said:
It all depends where you live I think.

I learnt my German in Bern (Hochdeutsch) and when I moved there in 2008 I spoke enough German to just get by.
Does not surprise me at all. A German friend of mine teaches Germanistik in Zurich, and has never bothered to try and blend in with the locals linguistically. I've also never had problems using high German there on visits. Can do a bit of Schweizerdeutsch (have relatives in Einsiedeln), but hate the way it sounds, so I don't. smile

There are many corners of Germany that are just as difficult as Switz. for the non-native speaker however. The Ms.'s parents speak Schwäbisch, which took some time to adjust to, and I never really cracked Kölsch, other than a few phrases.

steedy27

662 posts

189 months

Monday 26th January 2015
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Anybody have any experience working in IT (Sysadmin/Infrastructure) in Stockholm/Sweden or any other Nordic country?, The Mrs is Swedish and always drops hints about moving there for a few years.

KemP

492 posts

206 months

Monday 26th January 2015
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steedy27 said:
Anybody have any experience working in IT (Sysadmin/Infrastructure) in Stockholm/Sweden or any other Nordic country?, The Mrs is Swedish and always drops hints about moving there for a few years.
I moved from the UK and have lived in Norway for the last 3.5 years. I am a network engineer smile

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Monday 26th January 2015
quotequote all
krallicious said:
dcb said:
Over in Austrian Tirol, one lady told me that in former times,
each separate valley had a slightly different accent.

Of course, now, with national TV from Vienna for decades, it's all the same.
Very true but there are still very distinct changes in dialect between the West and East Tirol.
Yep. I worked out of Vienna for a bit as a subsidiary of ours was there and our Lead System engineer was basically Arnie smile They were all very strong about different parts of Austria having their own dialects but that so much domestic activity in Austria now flowed in and out of Vienna, the country was slowly becoming Vienna'd. The exception was basically the skiing industry.

As an aside...not a big fan of Vienna. Except Ottos. Wonderful wonderful restaurant with half a cow per serving of gulasch.

krallicious

4,312 posts

204 months

Monday 26th January 2015
quotequote all
DJRC said:
Yep. I worked out of Vienna for a bit as a subsidiary of ours was there and our Lead System engineer was basically Arnie smile They were all very strong about different parts of Austria having their own dialects but that so much domestic activity in Austria now flowed in and out of Vienna, the country was slowly becoming Vienna'd. The exception was basically the skiing industry.

As an aside...not a big fan of Vienna. Except Ottos. Wonderful wonderful restaurant with half a cow per serving of gulasch.
Salzburg has the easiest dialect (to understand) in Austria but the Wiener Schmäh does my bloody head in. It's nice to hear for a day or so but then it just bores right through you. A bit like Liverpudlian.