Any (Maths) Teachers?
Discussion
My Mrs has been considering a career change which involves her becoming a teacher. There is a local scheme which pays a wage while you train ~20k and would be qualified within a year but with no guaranteed position at the end.
My worry is that like with most things the grass isn't necessarily greener. I know a couple of teachers and while they enjoy their jobs the bureaucracy seems to be increasing and there's a requirement to do a lot of work outside of the core hours-lessons plans, marking etc? A couple of ex teachers I know have gotten out of education completely for a supposed 'easier life' which I guess means fixed hours less BS.
At the moment she's very well paid (~60K) but really isn't enjoying her role and it's starting to get her down. Money isn't everything though and we could afford the salary drop and if the worst come to the worse she would be able to go back into her current sector relatively easily.
I hoping to use some connections to get her some work experience or at least talk to some existing Maths teachers to get a feel for what the job is actually like. Something I could never do and have respect for those who do, my faith in the public school system isn't great as many of the local schools that were classed as very good schools have really gone down the pan.
Any advice I can pass on appreciated.
My worry is that like with most things the grass isn't necessarily greener. I know a couple of teachers and while they enjoy their jobs the bureaucracy seems to be increasing and there's a requirement to do a lot of work outside of the core hours-lessons plans, marking etc? A couple of ex teachers I know have gotten out of education completely for a supposed 'easier life' which I guess means fixed hours less BS.
At the moment she's very well paid (~60K) but really isn't enjoying her role and it's starting to get her down. Money isn't everything though and we could afford the salary drop and if the worst come to the worse she would be able to go back into her current sector relatively easily.
I hoping to use some connections to get her some work experience or at least talk to some existing Maths teachers to get a feel for what the job is actually like. Something I could never do and have respect for those who do, my faith in the public school system isn't great as many of the local schools that were classed as very good schools have really gone down the pan.
Any advice I can pass on appreciated.
Mrs JKH has been a teacher for the past 20 years. I showed her your post and she cannot understand why anyone would give up such a salary to be a teacher unless they are sure teaching is their vocation. The hours of marking and lesson preparation are out of balance with teacher's salaries and although the long holidays are welcome she does not feel they are adequate compensation.
In summary she said 'don't do it' but then added 'however I love my job'.
In summary she said 'don't do it' but then added 'however I love my job'.
jkh112 said:
Mrs JKH has been a teacher for the past 20 years. I showed her your post and she cannot understand why anyone would give up such a salary to be a teacher unless they are sure teaching is their vocation. The hours of marking and lesson preparation are out of balance with teacher's salaries and although the long holidays are welcome she does not feel they are adequate compensation.
In summary she said 'don't do it' but then added 'however I love my job'.
Thanks, this is the kind of response I've got from teachers I know! I do quite a bit with local schools 'trying' to get kids interested in Science and Engineering, some in works time some in my own. It's a nice side line to my day job, generally the kids want to be there so are compliant. Once however we turned up at a school with a few activities and it turned out we basically had ALL the bad kids who weren't allowed to go on the end of year school trip and were treat as a free resource to look after these little bIn summary she said 'don't do it' but then added 'however I love my job'.
ds for the day-I wanted to strangle several of them.......Whilst money isn't everything it helps. My preferred plan for both of us is to pay the mortgage off ASAP which would be around 5 years then we can both be a bit more liberal with our career choices.
MrHargreaves said:
I would have thought that any job paying c.£60k will have its fair share of paperwork, managerial supervision and long hours/unpaid overtime.
Teachers do not have a monopoly on these things, although many appear to think they do.
we don't we just think the amount they endure for the money they get is out of proportion. Teachers do not have a monopoly on these things, although many appear to think they do.
my wife is a teacher and next week is half term, so far she is seeing parents monday and tuesday who can't make parents evenings and also social services both days, on a course wednesday and thursday, i wanted to go away next week, not happening. i booked friday off and now been told she might be in a another child safety meeting.
My sister is a maths teacher. Second year post PGCE, aged 42 currently.
She spends evenings and weekends marking and planning. She gets paid about 30k I think
She will get better at her job and spend less time marking and planning in years to come. She may move into management but doesn't fancy that just now.
She gets 12 weeks holiday.
It is a very different job to the one teachers did 20 years ago when your wife was at school.
She spends evenings and weekends marking and planning. She gets paid about 30k I think
She will get better at her job and spend less time marking and planning in years to come. She may move into management but doesn't fancy that just now.
She gets 12 weeks holiday.
It is a very different job to the one teachers did 20 years ago when your wife was at school.
You go in to teaching to make a difference to children's lives and their potential. That must drive you. If it doesn't, then try something else.
If it does resonate, then the aim is to determine the age range of the children you want to work with and the location. Age range is a lot about your own personality, competency and confidence. Location is about your inner drive and ultimate ambition; home counties primary or a failing inner city secondary. The latter are crying out for the best to help; and it does take the best to make the difference.
Pay, workload and holidays are secondary considerations ahead of the primary purpose that drives you that I mentioned earlier.
If it does resonate, then the aim is to determine the age range of the children you want to work with and the location. Age range is a lot about your own personality, competency and confidence. Location is about your inner drive and ultimate ambition; home counties primary or a failing inner city secondary. The latter are crying out for the best to help; and it does take the best to make the difference.
Pay, workload and holidays are secondary considerations ahead of the primary purpose that drives you that I mentioned earlier.
jesta1865 said:
my wife is a teacher and next week is half term, so far she is seeing parents monday and tuesday who can't make parents evenings and also social services both days, on a course wednesday and thursday, i wanted to go away next week, not happening. i booked friday off and now been told she might be in a another child safety meeting.
Why is it not happening, do you need to go to those meetings with her 
MrHargreaves said:
was she not made aware of her role and salary before she accepted the job?
People have to change plans to fit around work commitments all the time, most of them don't have another long break on the horizon in 6 weeks.
Yes, but most of them aren't working from 8AM until 11PM every day and all weekend. Worst fairly recent thing is parents emailing teachers about all sorts of crap and then going to the Head if the email isn't answered the same day with a lengthy and full reply.People have to change plans to fit around work commitments all the time, most of them don't have another long break on the horizon in 6 weeks.
We have several family member who teach, including our oldest daughter. Like the above poster, she's in school every day next week. They'll have kids in too, for catch-up and coaching, so instead of being a chance for her to catch up, she's had to generate extra lessons.
OP - note your location is Lake District. I don't know, but would guess that might mean opportunities are relatively thin on the ground?
As others have indicated, the grass isn't necessarily greener on this side of the fence! As well as what others have said, you also have to factor in the negative public image that teaching has at present, as was so aptly displayed by Mr Hargreaves' post above. Teaching is a hard job, mentally and physically draining. I'm not saying it's harder than other jobs, but teachers' life expectancy post retirement is one of the lowest of all professional positions, which must indicate something!
Edited by nadger on Sunday 15th February 05:18
As others have indicated, the grass isn't necessarily greener on this side of the fence! As well as what others have said, you also have to factor in the negative public image that teaching has at present, as was so aptly displayed by Mr Hargreaves' post above. Teaching is a hard job, mentally and physically draining. I'm not saying it's harder than other jobs, but teachers' life expectancy post retirement is one of the lowest of all professional positions, which must indicate something!
Edited by nadger on Sunday 15th February 05:18
The number of hours can vary hugely. It depends, roughly, on these:
- how clever you are (oddly enough)
- your seniority (same as any job!)
- how ICT literate you are
- how committed you are
- the type of school you work for/management you work under
- whether you teach in primary or secondary (most studies show primary teachers work slightly longer hours when compared to equivalent secondary positions)
- what subject you teach if secondary and its marking workload
If you're in a weak school with pushover management and you can't be bothered to do anything, then you might get away with pulling the stereotypical 30 hour week for a little while. If you're middle management/SLT and you're dedicated to your job then you can quite easily work anywhere from 45-70 hours a week. But you can reduce that with smarts and ICT competence, for example.
Personally, I get to work at 7.45am and leave between 5.30pm and 7pm, almost always working through break and dinner too. Probably 50 hours a week between Mon and Fri and then I do 'top ups' on Sundays - marking, emails, bits of planning, etc. Saturday is my only 'day off' - never work on it.
I teach English (and run the dept), but the pressure on both English and maths teachers is fairly equal and significantly above that on teachers of other subjects. Maths will usually have a lower marking workload, though.
As someone else put, she'd be mental to leave a 60k position without being absolutely certain that teaching is for her. Would need to be a way stronger pull than fancying a change.
- how clever you are (oddly enough)
- your seniority (same as any job!)
- how ICT literate you are
- how committed you are
- the type of school you work for/management you work under
- whether you teach in primary or secondary (most studies show primary teachers work slightly longer hours when compared to equivalent secondary positions)
- what subject you teach if secondary and its marking workload
If you're in a weak school with pushover management and you can't be bothered to do anything, then you might get away with pulling the stereotypical 30 hour week for a little while. If you're middle management/SLT and you're dedicated to your job then you can quite easily work anywhere from 45-70 hours a week. But you can reduce that with smarts and ICT competence, for example.
Personally, I get to work at 7.45am and leave between 5.30pm and 7pm, almost always working through break and dinner too. Probably 50 hours a week between Mon and Fri and then I do 'top ups' on Sundays - marking, emails, bits of planning, etc. Saturday is my only 'day off' - never work on it.
I teach English (and run the dept), but the pressure on both English and maths teachers is fairly equal and significantly above that on teachers of other subjects. Maths will usually have a lower marking workload, though.
As someone else put, she'd be mental to leave a 60k position without being absolutely certain that teaching is for her. Would need to be a way stronger pull than fancying a change.
Thanks for all those who've replied, I also think she's mental 
She's effectively went from went into a management roll in a different area where there's little direction or support. I've suggested if she's that unhappy she considers going back to the job she much preferred (but again ste management). Drop in salary but not that much.
I might like to be a circus juggler, an astronaut, etc etc but as I've never worked in these areas it would be a gamble to leave my current profession. I guess like a lot of people there are times where I get hacked off with my job, but except my lot and that I get a very good salary and a good work life balance. Her school of thought is that she can't imagine spending the next 20 odd years in her current field, so if she goes for it and can't get a job at the end of it or after a while doesn't enjoy it she can always go back.........
It's messing with my long term plans too, we have 5 years left on the mortgage and at that point could either look at reducing our hours or planning for a very comfortable and early retirement.
She's effectively went from went into a management roll in a different area where there's little direction or support. I've suggested if she's that unhappy she considers going back to the job she much preferred (but again ste management). Drop in salary but not that much.I might like to be a circus juggler, an astronaut, etc etc but as I've never worked in these areas it would be a gamble to leave my current profession. I guess like a lot of people there are times where I get hacked off with my job, but except my lot and that I get a very good salary and a good work life balance. Her school of thought is that she can't imagine spending the next 20 odd years in her current field, so if she goes for it and can't get a job at the end of it or after a while doesn't enjoy it she can always go back.........
It's messing with my long term plans too, we have 5 years left on the mortgage and at that point could either look at reducing our hours or planning for a very comfortable and early retirement.
spud989 said:
If you're in a weak school with pushover management and you can't be bothered to do anything, then you might get away with pulling the stereotypical 30 hour week for a little while.
With pretty aggressive inspection regimes I can't believe there's many such teachers left now?Interesting your comments about primary vs secondary workload - very much the opposite is the case of the people we know. Son-in-law is a primary teacher and he works long hours in the week but doesn't routinely work weekends or holidays, and a colleague's wife has made deputy head in a 200 pupil primary after just a few years teaching and now has no teaching load at all.
Some of the poorer performing secondary schools around here are moving to a "primary like" teaching model for the first 3 years.
Sheepshanks said:
spud989 said:
If you're in a weak school with pushover management and you can't be bothered to do anything, then you might get away with pulling the stereotypical 30 hour week for a little while.
With pretty aggressive inspection regimes I can't believe there's many such teachers left now?Interesting your comments about primary vs secondary workload - very much the opposite is the case of the people we know. Son-in-law is a primary teacher and he works long hours in the week but doesn't routinely work weekends or holidays, and a colleague's wife has made deputy head in a 200 pupil primary after just a few years teaching and now has no teaching load at all.
Some of the poorer performing secondary schools around here are moving to a "primary like" teaching model for the first 3 years.
Teacher (usually morbidly obese) does 'just' enough with lesson plans and marking when being inspected/learning walked/all the rest and the rest of the time does barely anything. The really disgusting ones combine this with an annual rinsing of the LEA-style sickness policies which most schools still operate. This means that you can take 5 periods of sickness within a year, upto 5 days each, before you trigger 'stage 1' sickness. But that can be removed/worked down by better attendance. Worse still, nothing will endanger their job in terms of their attendance record until they reach stage 3.
Bottom line - if they want out they'll negotiate a pay-off with the head and their union representative. Standard offer is about 3 months pay, as far as I'm aware, but this varies. They may also get a 'neutral' reference. But, again, the terrible ones won't want this as they know they won't be employed anywhere else - so they cling on in any way they can.
Of course, these people are in a tiny minority. But they give everyone else a bad name. And it's not just in 'bad' schools either. Saw it at close proximity in an 'outstanding' school I spent quite a few years in.
Workload is odd. The ~55 hours I'm mentioning above is fairly typical. But it can swing enormously. During the last week of the summer term I won't do that - probably more like 43/45 hours. But in a spring week where you've got a parents' evening, report deadlines, coursework improvement sessions, meetings and all the rest? It can be significant. The most I've ever done in a week is mid 60s ish. I know there are people who work more than this (and I'm certainly not looking for sympathy!), but it's just my personal experience.
My cousin is a deputy head in a primary - a bit like your relative he pulls very long hours during the week, but manages to keep weekends fairly free, I think.
I wasn't being disrespectful. I was simply pointing out that teachers do not have the monopoly on working hard and that working during "holidays" should not be viewed as much of a hardship, in the circumstances.
I regularly work hours longer than those suggested in this thread but in my view earn sufficient salary to compensate me. If I was a teacher working those hours I would do something else.
If others are sufficiently motivated by teaching then that is their compensation.
I am baffled by those who go into nursing/teaching and then complain about government intervention in their work.
I regularly work hours longer than those suggested in this thread but in my view earn sufficient salary to compensate me. If I was a teacher working those hours I would do something else.
If others are sufficiently motivated by teaching then that is their compensation.
I am baffled by those who go into nursing/teaching and then complain about government intervention in their work.
Sheepshanks said:
Yes, but most of them aren't working from 8AM until 11PM every day and all weekend. Worst fairly recent thing is parents emailing teachers about all sorts of crap and then going to the Head if the email isn't answered the same day with a lengthy and full reply.
this is no different to what clients' of mine would do when I was junior and again is not uncommon in the commercial sectorGassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff