Salary Increase for completing degree?
Discussion
hman said:
might work out for the company though - they may well get a more junior member of staff with the degree at a lower pay rate and train him up?
The cost of recruiting (interviewing, fees, training) will probably eclipse the £5k the OP is hoping for and the company lose a hard-working employee with 6+ years of company knowledge and experience who clearly wants to better himself.Terrible management really.
Edited by Funk on Sunday 19th July 00:02
swerni said:
Funk said:
hman said:
might work out for the company though - they may well get a more junior member of staff with the degree at a lower pay rate and train him up?
The cost of recruiting (interviewing, fees, training) week comfortably eclipse the £5k the OP is hoping for and the company lose a hard-working employee with 6+ years of company knowledge and experience who clearly wants to better himself.Terrible management really.
Why would bettering himself make him worth more?
If he were asking £10k or £20k more then it would obviously be far more of a consideration, however he also mentions that his peers are on around 30% more than he is so it's not like he's asking for more than his colleagues are on...
hman said:
Salary increases need to be budgeted for, if a request comes out of the blue its likely to be turned down unless the owners are satisfied that their nett profit hit will be made up by increased productivity. Perhaps they arent seeing that the productivity, or in real terms, profitability will increase enough to cover the rise.
This, exactly this!andyb28 said:
hman said:
Salary increases need to be budgeted for, if a request comes out of the blue its likely to be turned down unless the owners are satisfied that their nett profit hit will be made up by increased productivity. Perhaps they arent seeing that the productivity, or in real terms, profitability will increase enough to cover the rise.
This, exactly this!Someone asking for an increase after completing a degree which was previously intimated to be the reason they couldnt have an increase, is not 'out of the blue'.
Yes, nothing was written down, I just assumed (I know, I know 
- you live and learn) that as it was mentioned every year at review time that some increase was guaranteed. (In my defence, other staff members who have completed degrees in the past have got 10% with no arguments - and this is much less than £5k! I was only hoping for the same...)
- you live and learn) that as it was mentioned every year at review time that some increase was guaranteed. (In my defence, other staff members who have completed degrees in the past have got 10% with no arguments - and this is much less than £5k! I was only hoping for the same...)andyb28 said:
hman said:
Salary increases need to be budgeted for, if a request comes out of the blue its likely to be turned down unless the owners are satisfied that their nett profit hit will be made up by increased productivity. Perhaps they arent seeing that the productivity, or in real terms, profitability will increase enough to cover the rise.
This, exactly this!Silgo said:
Yes, nothing was written down, I just assumed (I know, I know - you live and learn) that as it was mentioned every year at review time that some increase was guaranteed. (In my defence, other staff members who have completed degrees in the past have got 10% with no arguments - and this is much less than £5k! I was only hoping for the same...)
In this case OP, they may unfortunately be trying to give you a hint...... - you live and learn) that as it was mentioned every year at review time that some increase was guaranteed. (In my defence, other staff members who have completed degrees in the past have got 10% with no arguments - and this is much less than £5k! I was only hoping for the same...)How are your reviews generally?
swerni said:
Get rid, it sets a bad precedent.
Sorry if that sound a bit harsh.
It doesnt sound harsh, it sounds idiotic.Sorry if that sound a bit harsh.
my choice would be to let them go, for the same reason and there is a surplus of applicants for each position out there.
Also - those who state £5k for recruitment is more expensive than paying £5k in pay rise are ignorant of the 13.8% NI contribution that an employer makes for each salaried person.
Recruiting via a recruiting agency isnt the ONLY way to recruit, I have many CV's on file from persons who have forwarded their CV's speculatively to me. These people would cost me £0 in recruitment fees, only some time in training - which ultimately may serve me better in the future.
And finally, the employer may choose to promote a more junior person into the role of the exiting OP, if he was savvy then he would also get the exiting OP to train him up in his final weeks of notice period. The employer could then fill the junior role which even if it did include recruitment fees would be much less than the £5k + 13.8% NI contribution.
One thing we all know is that no-one is irreplaceable, if you think that then why not try it out - I am sure that pretty much all companies would continue just fine.
Also - those who state £5k for recruitment is more expensive than paying £5k in pay rise are ignorant of the 13.8% NI contribution that an employer makes for each salaried person.
Recruiting via a recruiting agency isnt the ONLY way to recruit, I have many CV's on file from persons who have forwarded their CV's speculatively to me. These people would cost me £0 in recruitment fees, only some time in training - which ultimately may serve me better in the future.
And finally, the employer may choose to promote a more junior person into the role of the exiting OP, if he was savvy then he would also get the exiting OP to train him up in his final weeks of notice period. The employer could then fill the junior role which even if it did include recruitment fees would be much less than the £5k + 13.8% NI contribution.
One thing we all know is that no-one is irreplaceable, if you think that then why not try it out - I am sure that pretty much all companies would continue just fine.
Reviews have always been 'Exceeds Expectations'. The only negative comments I've had have been that I say what I think and don't really go for office politics...
As for training someone up, the only person more junior to me left before they finished their probation, as they couldn't believe the job was as hectic and disjointed as it is! (We told them all about the job before they started...)
It took over a year from looking for a new starter to employing him...
As for training someone up, the only person more junior to me left before they finished their probation, as they couldn't believe the job was as hectic and disjointed as it is! (We told them all about the job before they started...)
It took over a year from looking for a new starter to employing him...
Silgo said:
OK, odd morning so far... My boss booked a meeting with me and said he is now discussing the raise with HR/upper management!
Hopefully, could be good news!
Meanwhile you keep on researching the job market to establish what you are now worth, so they won't be able to bluff you with a small rise.Hopefully, could be good news!
'grats on the degree - it's a lot of hard work but the feeling of accomplishment is immense.
Just to finish this off...
I ended up with a nominal pay rise, not quite what I wanted, but other 'incentives' meant that it was worth staying for a while longer...
Also, the discussion I had with the recruiter was a, erm, 'learning experience'. First time I'd ever had a discussion with one and they pretty much agreed very good terms before I'd even had an interview... Then, when I discussed the offer with HR at the new company, I found out the actual offer was VERY different. More pay, but fewer benefits, much lower company car allowance and probably an extra hour commuting every day (although, possibly more opportunity for progression over the first 3-4 years...). Disposable income would barely change, so I politely declined.
Now, should I do a Masters?
I ended up with a nominal pay rise, not quite what I wanted, but other 'incentives' meant that it was worth staying for a while longer...
Also, the discussion I had with the recruiter was a, erm, 'learning experience'
. First time I'd ever had a discussion with one and they pretty much agreed very good terms before I'd even had an interview... Then, when I discussed the offer with HR at the new company, I found out the actual offer was VERY different. More pay, but fewer benefits, much lower company car allowance and probably an extra hour commuting every day (although, possibly more opportunity for progression over the first 3-4 years...). Disposable income would barely change, so I politely declined.Now, should I do a Masters?
Re: the Master comment, unless your employer will finance it and/or you plan to stay with them longer term I'd say no.
With new graduates it's usually a case that your qualifications get you in the door and no more. It's up to you from then on to show what you can do, and from there earn promotions/pay rises.
It sounds to me like having a masters won't get you any further at your current place, If you started to look elsewhere it would obviously make you stand out above people with a bachelors only etc. It also makes the path to chartership more straightforward (if an accredited course).
I did most of my qualifications part time (also engineering) and I could tell a similar story-employer moving the goal posts to progression. I've got where I am IMO due to experience and working for it. Although of course it's nice to have degrees and chartership etc should I ever want to move elsewhere.
With new graduates it's usually a case that your qualifications get you in the door and no more. It's up to you from then on to show what you can do, and from there earn promotions/pay rises.
It sounds to me like having a masters won't get you any further at your current place, If you started to look elsewhere it would obviously make you stand out above people with a bachelors only etc. It also makes the path to chartership more straightforward (if an accredited course).
I did most of my qualifications part time (also engineering) and I could tell a similar story-employer moving the goal posts to progression. I've got where I am IMO due to experience and working for it. Although of course it's nice to have degrees and chartership etc should I ever want to move elsewhere.
Well done on your graduation. I think the effort and commitment you've shown speaks volumes however as an employer, I'm tired of employees or potential employees expecting some kind of financial recompense for an academic achievement which has no relevance or adds any value to my business.
A degree should be considered as a qualification to be considered with other aspects to allow you to start on a stepping stone which may lead you to future success. Not deserving reward in it's own right.
Many of the most talented and highest paid people I've had the pleasure of working with don't have degrees but they continue to be rewarded for what they do and achieve.
Despite these comments, I still hope you get a raise but I hope it will be because of your talents and commitment, not an academic qualification.
A degree should be considered as a qualification to be considered with other aspects to allow you to start on a stepping stone which may lead you to future success. Not deserving reward in it's own right.
Many of the most talented and highest paid people I've had the pleasure of working with don't have degrees but they continue to be rewarded for what they do and achieve.
Despite these comments, I still hope you get a raise but I hope it will be because of your talents and commitment, not an academic qualification.
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