How legal is this? Offshoring of role, etc

[james_tigerwoods]

Before I consult CAB or anything, I'm intrigued as to how legal this is. I'll summarise where I can:

• Mid January I was told that my role is being "right shored"
• I was told that I had until the end of April which would be when I would be "exited"
• There will be limited payout at 1.5 weeks per year worked (fk all) based on reference salary (and not full package)
• I have to do a handover to my replacement (there isn't one by the way)
• I will be given assistance to redeploy or retrain internally
• No assistance has been given and I only get feedback when I escalate it
• I have been rejected for seemingly ideal roles that, on paper, I am perfect for

I have been assured that it's all legal (grey, but legal) and there is no recourse that I can take but can anyone comment on this at all?

Thanks

JTW

[anonymous-user]

james_tigerwoods said:

Before I consult CAB or anything, I'm intrigued as to how legal this is. I'll summarise where I can:

• Mid January I was told that my role is being "right shored"
• I was told that I had until the end of April which would be when I would be "exited"
• There will be limited payout at 1.5 weeks per year worked (fk all) based on reference salary (and not full package)
• I have to do a handover to my replacement (there isn't one by the way)
• I will be given assistance to redeploy or retrain internally
• No assistance has been given and I only get feedback when I escalate it
• I have been rejected for seemingly ideal roles that, on paper, I am perfect for

I have been assured that it's all legal (grey, but legal) and there is no recourse that I can take but can anyone comment on this at all?

Thanks

JTW

Has your employer offered to pay towards legal advice? If so take it.
If not I would contact and employment lawyer and ask them to look over. Initial consultation will either be free or cheap.

CAB better than nothing but you really can't beat proper advice in this situation,even if it's just to assure you they have done everything by the book.

[james_tigerwoods]

desolate said:

james_tigerwoods said:

Before I consult CAB or anything, I'm intrigued as to how legal this is. I'll summarise where I can:

• Mid January I was told that my role is being "right shored"
• I was told that I had until the end of April which would be when I would be "exited"
• There will be limited payout at 1.5 weeks per year worked (fk all) based on reference salary (and not full package)
• I have to do a handover to my replacement (there isn't one by the way)
• I will be given assistance to redeploy or retrain internally
• No assistance has been given and I only get feedback when I escalate it
• I have been rejected for seemingly ideal roles that, on paper, I am perfect for

I have been assured that it's all legal (grey, but legal) and there is no recourse that I can take but can anyone comment on this at all?

Thanks

JTW

Has your employer offered to pay towards legal advice? If so take it.
If not I would contact and employment lawyer and ask them to look over. Initial consultation will either be free or cheap.

CAB better than nothing but you really can't beat proper advice in this situation,even if it's just to assure you they have done everything by the book.

The Union rep (a good guy) who is also on the HR board as the employee rep has stated that it's all "nice and legal" like but I've not had my own consultation.

In addition to this, I'm not sure I want to fight to stay any more....

[anonymous-user]

james_tigerwoods said:

The Union rep (a good guy) who is also on the HR board as the employee rep has stated that it's all "nice and legal" like but I've not had my own consultation.

In addition to this, I'm not sure I want to fight to stay any more....

If you don't want to fight then pick up your cheque and leave. If you can find work elsewhere, no point hanging around.

It's a different matter if you can't find work though.

[james_tigerwoods]

desolate said:

james_tigerwoods said:

The Union rep (a good guy) who is also on the HR board as the employee rep has stated that it's all "nice and legal" like but I've not had my own consultation.

In addition to this, I'm not sure I want to fight to stay any more....

If you don't want to fight then pick up your cheque and leave. If you can find work elsewhere, no point hanging around.

It's a different matter if you can't find work though.

It stinks that this is the way that things are being done - I can't see a real problem with finding work as I'm good at what I do but it's a ballache going through the motions - Really, it's that feeling that you're being stiffed.

[anonymous-user]

Go and see a solicitor then. It will only take an hour.

[Martin4x4]

james_tigerwoods said:

Before I consult CAB or anything, I'm intrigued as to how legal this is. I'll summarise where I can:

• Mid January I was told that my role is being "right shored"
• I was told that I had until the end of April which would be when I would be "exited"
• There will be limited payout at 1.5 weeks per year worked (fk all) based on reference salary (and not full package)
• I have to do a handover to my replacement (there isn't one by the way)
• I will be given assistance to redeploy or retrain internally
• No assistance has been given and I only get feedback when I escalate it
• I have been rejected for seemingly ideal roles that, on paper, I am perfect for

I have been assured that it's all legal (grey, but legal) and there is no recourse that I can take but can anyone comment on this at all?

Thanks

JTW

On the face of this it looks like you are being made compulsory redundant, so checkout ACAS advice on this.

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4256

[edc]

Without sounding too harsh, these sorts of business decisions can be hard on the affected employees but when done correctly are all above board. Unfortunately, businesses have to make tough decisions and whether that is outsourcing, cost or headcount reduction, site closure, site relocation, downsizing due to lack of business etc this is all just part of the competitive landscape.

[bigandclever]

On the face of it, you've essentially been given more than 3 months notice and a (bit of a) payoff to leave, because your role is to move offshore. What's the potential illegality? I am sympathetic, it happened to me years ago, and it took me ages to get over the fact that it wasn't a personal decision, it was a business one where I was a line on a spreadsheet. Taught me a lot about 'corporate loyalty' for a start.

[james_tigerwoods]

I get the fact that it's "just business" and all that and I've seen the financial justification so I understand (to a point) - Typing it up here has definitely exorcised a few demons though.

I think I'll ride it out, see what happens and take what I can get - job, money, etc.

[Du1point8]

wait a few months when they come running back and offer to do the job as a contractor, but not another handover.

Seen so many times when off shoring doesn't work and staff are hired back at great expense due to cost saving not working.

[Vaud]

From how you describe it, all legal.

Outsourcing, offshoring and TUPE is well understood by most parties these days. If it is a big outsourcer then they will have a team fully versed in what is legal and where the boundaries are.

It sounds like they aren't TUPE'ing you to the outsourcer, but you are remaining with the company, who have the cost/risk/process of making you redundant?

[james_tigerwoods]

It's not a TUPE deal - just a case of the job no longer being done in the UK.

[Vaud]

james_tigerwoods said:

It's not a TUPE deal - just a case of the job no longer being done in the UK.

OK. In some they TUPE and then the redundancy and risk of skills transfer is by the outsourcer. In others, they risk skills transfer and just put the role straight offshore, leaving the redundancy risk and costs with the original employer. Legal either way.

The deciding factor is normally around how the skills can be deployed onshore.

[james_tigerwoods]

I know that the skills aren't in India, but that's no longer my concern or problem.

My company have made a decision and I will abide by it.

Writing it down like this is helping me accept that I'm a passenger in this.

[Vaud]

I can assure you that most of your management and board will be as well.

The CFO will (probably) be the one driving the business case, and it isn't personal.

• edit to add - I have almost never seen skills that can't be found in India. The progression in the last 10 years is remarkable.

[james_tigerwoods]

My manager is as ticked off as I am but it is what it is.

And by there not being skills it's more that they can't find the right person.

[Du1point8]

Vaud said:

I can assure you that most of your management and board will be as well.

The CFO will (probably) be the one driving the business case, and it isn't personal.

• edit to add - I have almost never seen skills that can't be found in India. The progression in the last 10 years is remarkable.

you don't work in finance or realtime data then...

I know of several IT companies coming back as India IT is shocking.

Unless you spell it out for them (in which case the BA might as well do the code) then it always without fail needs fixing as the end user never gets what they want.

Slow on the main production environment when new code is added... Excuse No 1 - It works fine on my PC so I can't help you.

Hard coded data in the code gets released to Prod... Excuse No 1 - It worked fine when testing data (same hard coded ones) without testing any other data.

Cant get hold of your Indian team... Find out for several months the reason why they are quiet several hours a day is due to them double billing, they get very defensive when you find out they are doing it to the team next to you, my team, their team, both had same Indian team working for us, but we were both paying them for them to be solely on one of our jobs (20 people got fired that day).

Work coming out very slow and doesn't work... Excuse No 1 - My cousin has only been coding a few weeks, you should give him a little slack... this on a system which processes 10 billion in transactions per day real time, he was the new data mine person.

I can carry on, they have not change their attitude or work ethic in over 10 years since I saw it originally happen at HSBC in early 2000s.

Those that can, leave india and join consulting teams in the UK... those that can't, are in the out sourcing teams in India still.

[james_tigerwoods]

Du1point8 said:

stuff

I work with some great Indians... I also work with the type you describe.

Proactive and lateral thinking isn't high on their ability list...

I fail to see how they'll manage site visits which is key to my role, but good luck to them.

[james_tigerwoods]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

Yeh, my employer is doing this too....