Bugging employees - legal or not?

[MDinthepoo]

Hi folks,

I am the Managing Director of a privately owned company (not owned by me although I am a minority shareholder) and I have suspicion that two or more employees are planning to leave and take a large business account with them which would cripple the business. I have no proof and they might be working legitimately but I don't believe this is the case. They frequently have 1 to 1 meetings in our meeting room and my requests to include others who work on the account are accepted in conversation and ignored in practice.

Would I be exposing myself legally if I fitted a discreet voice recording device in the room? Either a device which would allow me to hear the conversation in realtime or one which records for play back in the future would be fine.

Many thanks in advance.

[FredClogs]

Just do what any self respecting autocrat would do and take them into the car park and have them shot...

I think you already know the answer to this dilemma and the law would be your last concern - BUT you can read their emails if you're nice to the IT man.

[Jasandjules]

FredClogs said:

I think you already know the answer to this dilemma and the law would be your last concern - BUT you can read their emails if you're nice to the IT man.

Subject to your computer use policy..

But with regards to "bugging"..

The admissibility of covert recordings has been considered in a number of cases. The general position is that if the recordings are relevant to an issue in the proceedings, they are admissible unless there is a legal basis for their exclusion. Although the courts and tribunals find the making of secret recordings distasteful, they are not rendered inadmissible simply on that account

[FredClogs]

Jasandjules said:

FredClogs said:

I think you already know the answer to this dilemma and the law would be your last concern - BUT you can read their emails if you're nice to the IT man.

Subject to your computer use policy..

But with regards to "bugging"..

The admissibility of covert recordings has been considered in a number of cases. The general position is that if the recordings are relevant to an issue in the proceedings, they are admissible
there is a legal basis for their exclusion. Although the courts and tribunals find the making of secret recordings distasteful, they are not rendered inadmissible simply on that account

My point being I'd rather loose a client and two staff than all my staff when they find out I'm the sort of boss who plants bugs and eaves drops, imagine the reaction of loyal hard working staff if the paranoia turns out to be unfounded, not worth the risk in a small or medium Familly run firm.

[PorkInsider]

FredClogs said:

Jasandjules said:

FredClogs said:

I think you already know the answer to this dilemma and the law would be your last concern - BUT you can read their emails if you're nice to the IT man.

Subject to your computer use policy..

But with regards to "bugging"..

The admissibility of covert recordings has been considered in a number of cases. The general position is that if the recordings are relevant to an issue in the proceedings, they are admissible
there is a legal basis for their exclusion. Although the courts and tribunals find the making of secret recordings distasteful, they are not rendered inadmissible simply on that account

My point being I'd rather loose a client and two staff than all my staff when they find out I'm the sort of boss who plants bugs and eaves drops, imagine the reaction of loyal hard working staff if the paranoia turns out to be unfounded, not worth the risk in a small or medium Familly run firm.

If you read the first post, the point is that the loss of this client would cripple the business.

How are the other staff going to find out about the bugging if it turns out to be unfounded?

[Mopar440]

MDinthepoo said:

Hi folks,

I am the Managing Director of a privately owned company (not owned by me although I am a minority shareholder) and I have suspicion that two or more employees are planning to leave and take a large business account with them which would cripple the business. I have no proof and they might be working legitimately but I don't believe this is the case. They frequently have 1 to 1 meetings in our meeting room and my requests to include others who work on the account are accepted in conversation and ignored in practice.

Would I be exposing myself legally if I fitted a discreet voice recording device in the room? Either a device which would allow me to hear the conversation in realtime or one which records for play back in the future would be fine.

Many thanks in advance.

Comedy post of the month so far.

Managing Director?

Really?

fk me.

[essayer]

Maybe worry more about getting a new customer or two.

[ClassicMercs]

As MD I would use this as an excuse to take a more proactive role in managing the key client(s) - the client then feels more valued by your business as the MD is actively involved, rather than leaving it all to other staff. Possibly hard on your time - but essential for key clients IMHO.
Then all you need to worry about is the big one - undercutting you due to lower overheads etc.

[Terminator X]

essayer said:

Maybe worry more about getting a new customer or two.

Agreed, all eggs in one basket is never ideal.

TX.

[bogwoppit]

I suggest you check with a lawyer whether what you propose is in fact illegal.

I did some research on this topic when comparing policies and IIRC surveillance is only permissible if you have reasonable suspicion of a criminal offence (eg theft, not a civil offence), and even then only if informing them would compromise the ability to prevent the crime.

[Nezquick]

Won't they have clauses in their contracts restricting them from poaching your clients for 6 months (or whatever) if they leave your company? Many companies include these to protect themselves in just such a scenario.

[anonymous-user]

Rather than worrying about something that realistically you have little control over, you need to concentrate your efforts on working out why the clients would be happy to leave you and go with the employees.

What will they be offering that you won't be?
Will their prices be more attractive?

Etc.

[Monkeylegend]

MDinthepoo said:

They frequently have 1 to 1 meetings in our meeting room and my requests to include others who work on the account are accepted in conversation and ignored in practice.

But you are the MD, so why allow this to happen. Seems like they have no respect for you or your position. Time to start managing maybe.

[Jasandjules]

FredClogs said:

My point being I'd rather loose a client and two staff than all my staff when they find out I'm the sort of boss who plants bugs and eaves drops, imagine the reaction of loyal hard working staff if the paranoia turns out to be unfounded, not worth the risk in a small or medium Familly run firm.

Well that is people management, you asked a Legal question, that's what I answered

Next time they have a one to one why not drop in and sit down, see if you can "help"..

[zedx19]

Nothing to add, but super choice of username.

[Davel]

Make the time to visit a few 'key' clients, to gauge how your company is catering for their needs.

I always try to keep in touch with our clients to ensure that the relationship is a good one - and they know where I am if they ever wish to contact me.

I'm not their person to contact on a daily basis but I hope that it demonstrates how valuable their custom is to us.

[Brigand]

Speaking as someone who's job it is to search premises for such eavesdropping devices, a little more clarification on the issue might be helpful - mainly on what you intend to do with the information should you find they are about to jump ship with a major client.

There are a host of devices you could use to accomplish this, but if you heard the worst what do you intend to do? Confront them? That won't go down well if they realise you know something you really shouldn't have heard, and it will generate a lot of animosity within the office if people start to suspect you've been spying on them, something you are aware of and don't want to risk by the sounds of it. However if you do install it and it all appears to be above board, well you can just remove the device and no one will be any the wiser.

This kind of thing is always a grey area though legally. You're well within your rights to have recording equipment inside the premises (just look at supermarkets that record audio and visual around the tills) but you will need signs stating this as well as notifying the staff - which in your case isn't going to help as if they are up to no good they'll just go outside the office.

The choice is yours - the kit you require is very easily accessed, and can be cheap to buy, but you know the risks, and unless you have a grand plan to save the company and client if you overheard the employees were planning to leave with the client, then I'd say you're going to achieve nothing other than satisfying your curiosity or seeing what's about to happen when they leave.