Question for the Legal Eagles out there....
Discussion
If it's of any use I have a friend who completed his LLB from Southampton and has a successful career in marine law.
The over-arching message is do what is best for your future and your ultimate goal. If that means doing something which is outside your comfort zone then so be it because you will be pushed well outisde your comfort zone later on.
The over-arching message is do what is best for your future and your ultimate goal. If that means doing something which is outside your comfort zone then so be it because you will be pushed well outisde your comfort zone later on.
I no longer work in a law firm but I do employ solicitors in my role in financial services.
I would echo the comments of those above. You will be putting yourself at a serious disadvantage in future recruitment for no justifiable reason. I would also not assume Australia to be a legal waste land. There are several large law firms in Australia of an international standard.
I would echo the comments of those above. You will be putting yourself at a serious disadvantage in future recruitment for no justifiable reason. I would also not assume Australia to be a legal waste land. There are several large law firms in Australia of an international standard.
For your age the firms will want a well rounded individual and I don't think it would help you to undertake an OU. Realistically these are for second career people.
As above, aim for the highest Uni you can if you want to get on in Law. It is not right nor fair, but that is the way it is.
As above, aim for the highest Uni you can if you want to get on in Law. It is not right nor fair, but that is the way it is.
I've worked in law now for the past 16 years but I went down the Legal Executive route and am now a Chartered Legal Executive (i.e. an old style Fellow).
In my opinion, this is one of the best ways to get into the legal world because:
a) You'd start off working as a paralegal in a law firm whilst studying in your own time towards you ILEX qualification.
b) You'd be earning money during that time and gaining experience of working in a law firm.
c) Given that experience, you'd then have a far better chance of getting a training contract were you to decide to convert your ILEX qualification into a Solicitor qualification.
d) You'll have no debt.
e) ILEX takes 4 years, part time studying.
I know it's not for everyone but the ILEX route does have its advantages and you'll probably find that salary etc is very comparable to your Solicitor peers.
To give you an indication, the firm I work at, we have around 2500 applications a year for training contracts. They only take on 8. It's a tough old world out there to try and get your foot in the door.
And for the love of god don't specialise in PI. It's a dying sector IMO.
In my opinion, this is one of the best ways to get into the legal world because:
a) You'd start off working as a paralegal in a law firm whilst studying in your own time towards you ILEX qualification.
b) You'd be earning money during that time and gaining experience of working in a law firm.
c) Given that experience, you'd then have a far better chance of getting a training contract were you to decide to convert your ILEX qualification into a Solicitor qualification.
d) You'll have no debt.
e) ILEX takes 4 years, part time studying.
I know it's not for everyone but the ILEX route does have its advantages and you'll probably find that salary etc is very comparable to your Solicitor peers.
To give you an indication, the firm I work at, we have around 2500 applications a year for training contracts. They only take on 8. It's a tough old world out there to try and get your foot in the door.
And for the love of god don't specialise in PI. It's a dying sector IMO.
Thanks for all the extra advice!
I've decided I'll probably end up going to Southampton. Their law department is good and I can commute if I choose. Even though distance learning seems like fun, there are just too many downsides to it for it to be a valid option.
Oh well.
I'm probably not going to do a masters in law, because I don't really need it. But, still keeping my eye on the 1 year part time OU project-management degree, just as something else to broaden my horizons. Either that or Prince2, just so I have something else if all my future plans fall through.
By the way...
I intend on moving to Aus full time and not returning to the UK (well, apart from visits), so the GDL over there would be converting my British law degree to an Aussie one ready for law practice. This would be before I begin an LPC etc, so I would start my official legal training in Aus, so I'm not planning on applying for all that over here.
And indeed, if there are credible offers of work experience, I'll take as much of it as I can. I'll probably stay well away from anyone calling themselves 'Uncle', though...
I've decided I'll probably end up going to Southampton. Their law department is good and I can commute if I choose. Even though distance learning seems like fun, there are just too many downsides to it for it to be a valid option.
Oh well.
I'm probably not going to do a masters in law, because I don't really need it. But, still keeping my eye on the 1 year part time OU project-management degree, just as something else to broaden my horizons. Either that or Prince2, just so I have something else if all my future plans fall through.
By the way...
I intend on moving to Aus full time and not returning to the UK (well, apart from visits), so the GDL over there would be converting my British law degree to an Aussie one ready for law practice. This would be before I begin an LPC etc, so I would start my official legal training in Aus, so I'm not planning on applying for all that over here.
And indeed, if there are credible offers of work experience, I'll take as much of it as I can. I'll probably stay well away from anyone calling themselves 'Uncle', though...
Slinkype said:
I would still be happier doing a distance degree because I feel such independent learning would be for me. My next stage is to get in contact with some Aussie unis to see what they think about it in response to the GDL I would need to convert over to Australian law.
You need to bin this thinking; a good university course IS independent learning, that's what employers are looking for. You get guidance from tutors, lecturers etc, but don't think there's much hand-holding except on a pastoral level.Nezquick said:
I've worked in law now for the past 16 years but I went down the Legal Executive route and am now a Chartered Legal Executive (i.e. an old style Fellow).
In my opinion, this is one of the best ways to get into the legal world because:
a) You'd start off working as a paralegal in a law firm whilst studying in your own time towards you ILEX qualification.
b) You'd be earning money during that time and gaining experience of working in a law firm.
c) Given that experience, you'd then have a far better chance of getting a training contract were you to decide to convert your ILEX qualification into a Solicitor qualification.
d) You'll have no debt.
e) ILEX takes 4 years, part time studying.
Hi, I've been looking into the ILEX route but they've been quite unclear over how long it'll take me to be fully qualified. I've also heard I can convert over to become a solicitor, but I don't really know about that.In my opinion, this is one of the best ways to get into the legal world because:
a) You'd start off working as a paralegal in a law firm whilst studying in your own time towards you ILEX qualification.
b) You'd be earning money during that time and gaining experience of working in a law firm.
c) Given that experience, you'd then have a far better chance of getting a training contract were you to decide to convert your ILEX qualification into a Solicitor qualification.
d) You'll have no debt.
e) ILEX takes 4 years, part time studying.
Thanks for your comment! If you feel you have any further information to offer me, please do not hesitate to tell me. I am really interested in the Apprenticeship route!
randlemarcus said:
Out of interest, assuming your accrue the student debt, and then whizz off to Oz, is there a reciprocal collection arrangement in place, or do they simply assume that no UK tax over £x means you don't have to start repaying it yet?
Hi!I've been looking into this recently, as it's quite a popular question for people to ask me.
After you are out of the country for more than 3 months you need to talk to HMRC, who then transfer your loan to the Student Loans Company, who handle all abroad education loans not in the UK's control.
This also means that the threshold for repayment changes - as shown on http://www.studentloanrepayment.co.uk/portal/page?...
For instance, I'd need to be earning £25k a year in Aus to start repayment, but in Poland, it's more like £9k. And yes, £s are the correct conversion currency for that, just because it's an easy comparison. Of course, this means 9% of my wages would be deducted, as in the UK.
Pretty good system, I suppose. You're slapped with major fines if you don't alert HMRC, too.
hidetheelephants said:
Slinkype said:
I would still be happier doing a distance degree because I feel such independent learning would be for me. My next stage is to get in contact with some Aussie unis to see what they think about it in response to the GDL I would need to convert over to Australian law.
You need to bin this thinking; a good university course IS independent learning, that's what employers are looking for. You get guidance from tutors, lecturers etc, but don't think there's much hand-holding except on a pastoral level.During my law degree we would get a weekly reading list (which was massive) and an essay question. Then it was up to us do spend the countless hours in the law library getting through the list. Then we would have a one hour tutorial to talk about our (crap) essay. That was it. No hand holding whatsoever. Lectures were entirely optional.
To the OP's daughter - I'm afraid you need a reality check if you think that you would be able to work "far ahead of those surrounding me" at a quality uni. GCSEs it is not. All of my contemporaries had straight As at GCSE and A Level, and that was 20 years ago. And all of them struggled.
By the way, don't rule out the social side of uni (and living away from family). That's the whole point really.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
My wife saw the real end of it.She could have been earning £1m a year at Magic Circle at 30 with no kids, no meaningful relationship, alcohol to dull the pain of no life and coke to create the illusion of it.
She now has a relationship, a great 2 year old and a life of her own outside of billing clients because you happened across them in Tesco Express.
Financially it's poorer, otherwise it's richer.
However, I digress.
Do not waste your time training into law unless you can show 100% commitment to whoever you rely upon to invest in your qualification. There is insane competition and employers have the choice. I wish, at 36, I could afford to retrain into the profession, however commitments dictate it can't be. One thing I do have, is a reality check. OP- do it, if you're prepared to sacrifice everything. If not, don't bother.
Amateurish said:
To the OP's daughter - I'm afraid you need a reality check if you think that you would be able to work "far ahead of those surrounding me" at a quality uni. GCSEs it is not. All of my contemporaries had straight As at GCSE and A Level, and that was 20 years ago. And all of them struggled. .
Yup, I understand. That's why I said that it 'may change in university', though I probably should've said 'most definitely will' Regardless, I still work at a far faster pace than my peers in college, and that isn't GCSEs either.
If I go to Oxford after somehow getting through the scrutinising interview process, I'd be at the bottom of class. If I went to somewhere like Southampton, I'd hope to be a little better than that. Everyone works at different paces, which is why I liked the idea of completing something completely in my own time and location.
Slinkype said:
Yup, I understand. That's why I said that it 'may change in university', though I probably should've said 'most definitely will'
Regardless, I still work at a far faster pace than my peers in college, and that isn't GCSEs either.
If I go to Oxford after somehow getting through the scrutinising interview process, I'd be at the bottom of class. If I went to somewhere like Southampton, I'd hope to be a little better than that. Everyone works at different paces, which is why I liked the idea of completing something completely in my own time and location.
I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but from your posts here (and that's all we've got to go on) you sound unsuitable for the legal market here.Regardless, I still work at a far faster pace than my peers in college, and that isn't GCSEs either.
If I go to Oxford after somehow getting through the scrutinising interview process, I'd be at the bottom of class. If I went to somewhere like Southampton, I'd hope to be a little better than that. Everyone works at different paces, which is why I liked the idea of completing something completely in my own time and location.
The overall impression is that you're very certain of your ability but unwilling to have it tested against your peers. Add to that your plan to leave the country in the foreseeable future and your preference to not commit financially or socially to your career.
In this country you'll be competing for a training contract with people who are falling over themselves to directly test against one another. Who are willing to commit to whatever it takes to get what they want. Who have a bucket full of A* results and at least a 2:1 from a good university. Who plan to live in the UK indefinitely.
You may well be a future CEO of Slater and Gordon, however with an approach as you've demonstrated here I'm not convinced.
allergictocheese said:
I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but from your posts here (and that's all we've got to go on) you sound unsuitable for the legal market here.
I want to be informed of all my options for the future, and would like to explore the somewhat unconventional ways to access the legal profession. Over the last week on both here and in the real world I've been informed that these paths are not recommended, so I shall not choose them. No offence intended, but I came on here for advice over whether or not distance learning is a reasonable route into the legal profession, not to be told by those who do not know me I am unsuited to my preferred career.
Maybe I have come across as flippant and ignorant. I hope not, but maybe so.
The legal market is indeed a competitive one. I want to do well. I do not intend to be a CEO of any legal firm, I simply want to study and enter into something I find interesting.
I don't wish to be lumbered with masses of student debt, which in the future will limit many of my financial decisions, such as taking out a mortgage. It would seem that indeed I must make sacrifices as this, which I will indeed do, despite it being reluctantly.
I need to get a good education, and indeed I hope I shall. I am willing to invest financially and socially, but I still want to live a happy life. I already plan on commuting to University to save money, and I like looking to other places to make the right financial choices. I have moderate goals - I want a job, a family, and a house. I dare say I shall not be the most successful woman in the legal career due to this, but those are sacrifices I am unwilling to make.
I plan on moving to Aus because the pay is better, the life is better, and I feel like there is more for me personally out there. A promise of better things is indeed alluring for the youth of today who have very little waiting for them in their UK future.
And, despite what it may seem, I am incredibly competitive. I'm happy to pitch myself others and compete for success, despite some of the other PH members saying it is unnecessary, and that I am the main person to compete against. I am completely willing to test my ability against others, which is one of the reasons I actually enjoy exams.
Phew, long message again but I hope I got my point across. Thanks for your advice.
Slinkype said:
I plan on moving to Aus because the pay is better, the life is better, and I feel like there is more for me personally out there. A promise of better things is indeed alluring for the youth of today who have very little waiting for them in their UK future.
You mentioned this in passing a couple of times but not in much detail; have you visited Oz? It's one thing to want to visit a place and tick it off a bucket list, but forming your life plan around emigrating to a country you've not experienced seems like making an unnecessary hostage to fortune. Many Oz emigrants find the grass is not greener, just sunnier and more adapted to a BBQ lifestyle.Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff