Any employment lawyers on here?

Any employment lawyers on here?

Author
Discussion

FurtiveFreddy

Original Poster:

8,577 posts

237 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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Need some advice for my partner who is just about to be made redundant.

Happy to pay for the consultation and it probably only needs to be done over the phone unless things start to get litigious.

Anyone professionals here who want to offer their services?

Jasandjules

69,892 posts

229 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
What is the question first of all? You say about to be made redundant, so what is it you want advice on?

FurtiveFreddy

Original Poster:

8,577 posts

237 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
Mainly how much money she should receive and how it will be taxed.

I know what the statutory redundancy payment would be but there are some grey areas when it comes to PILON I want to discuss.

Jasandjules

69,892 posts

229 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
If you want to email me your question and the PILON clause I will have a quick look FOC.

FurtiveFreddy

Original Poster:

8,577 posts

237 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
Jasandjules said:
If you want to email me your question and the PILON clause I will have a quick look FOC.
Ok thanks, it will probably be tomorrow.

Jasandjules

69,892 posts

229 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
No worries, I check emails several times a day..

edc

9,235 posts

251 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
Only the company can tell you how much redundancy pay you will receive. PILON is generally taxable though.

FurtiveFreddy

Original Poster:

8,577 posts

237 months

Sunday 26th April 2015
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edc said:
Only the company can tell you how much redundancy pay you will receive. PILON is generally taxable though.
My limited knowledge and research seems to suggest this is correct where there is a PILON clause in the contract.

But if there is no clause and a 'loss of office' compensation payment is made (and a compromise agreement is entered into) then that payment can be included in the £30k tax free allowance.

If that is the case and the gross amount was the same in both situations, would that not benefit both parties, as neither would have to pay the relevant taxes and the employer wouldn't have to pay NI?

In other words, if the statutory redundancy pay + PILON (before tax) came to £30k, wouldn't it be better for everyone for a compromise agreement to be made which paid £30k (tax free) loss of office' compensation?

edc

9,235 posts

251 months

Sunday 26th April 2015
quotequote all
FurtiveFreddy said:
edc said:
Only the company can tell you how much redundancy pay you will receive. PILON is generally taxable though.
My limited knowledge and research seems to suggest this is correct where there is a PILON clause in the contract.

But if there is no clause and a 'loss of office' compensation payment is made (and a compromise agreement is entered into) then that payment can be included in the £30k tax free allowance.

If that is the case and the gross amount was the same in both situations, would that not benefit both parties, as neither would have to pay the relevant taxes and the employer wouldn't have to pay NI?

In other words, if the statutory redundancy pay + PILON (before tax) came to £30k, wouldn't it be better for everyone for a compromise agreement to be made which paid £30k (tax free
) loss of office' compensation?
Some of what you are describing then isn't PILON. If there is no clause in the contract to pay in lieu of notice then ergo PILON cannot be payable. You can pay what amounts to an equivalent sum as compensation for loss of office or a payment for breach of contract and whilst they may be the same amount of money they are not exactly the same thing.

Whilst one can argue it might be in both parties interest to fudge things HMRC wouldn't be impressed, nor would the solicitor revewing the compromise agreement, and nor would the individual when they see the clause that makes them liable for any PAYE implications. The amount of NI you are talking about for an employer is small fry.

FurtiveFreddy

Original Poster:

8,577 posts

237 months

Monday 27th April 2015
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I'm not sure either party want to fudge anything when HMRC might be involved. She'd entitled to 12 weeks notice. We all know they won't make her work that, so it's about trying to get her the biggest payoff with the least tax implications.

It seems that if they payed her 12 weeks money and called it PILON, tax would need to be deducted but if they call it loss of office in a compromise agreement, it would be tax free up to £30k. Have I got that right?

One interesting aside is that one of her colleagues was recently made redundant. He reportedly received around £30k, didn't sign any compromise agreement and the company referred to that payment as "a redundancy payment of 6 month's salary which will be tax free".

If they made the same offer to my partner, could the HMRC claim that is PILON and chase her for tax?

edc

9,235 posts

251 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
You cannot pick and choose for convenience whether a payment is tax free or not. If the contract stipulates the company may terminate and pay in lieu of notice then PILON is a taxable payment. If the contract states 12 weeks notice but does not state the company can pay in lieu and she is not served any notice then in most circumstances the payment can be made tax free. The company can choose whatever calculation method it wants to pay over and above statutory redundancy pay.