Suspended for facebook comment.
Discussion
Go to citizens advice for some proper advice or check your household insurance as access to legal advice may be covered.
A good employment solicitor will make sure you're not railroaded and if due process isn't followed they will go for wrongful dismissal even if the grounds are sound.
It may make your employer question how far they push this. By all means they are going through a process and if you feel you have been victimised due to lack of a policy for social media it's another pointy stick to poke in their genitals.
Take the emotion out of the situation and try to shape a response or direct some awkward questions back, take the initiative.
If you feel your treatment has been disproportionate you may want to question your future at your present employer which means a compromise agreement is drawn up. You get paid to leave with a good reference and ensure there is a confidentiality clause. Don't break the clause if you sign.
Above everything get some proper legal advice and not from some union guy. Private practice have sharper brains and their teeth are much sharper. IMHO.
I sit on the other side and the union guys i've met are to be frank, thick as s
t and while i accept this may not be representative.
By all means keep the union on side, use their moral support but get yourself an attack dog to fight for your rights and rip your employers throat out for acting in such a way. I pride myself in never going before a tribunal to defend my actions and firmly believe if you treat people decently it's returned. Not always but it doesn't stop me trying. So a little rebalancing is needed so best wishes and I hope you find a decent attack dog.
A good employment solicitor will make sure you're not railroaded and if due process isn't followed they will go for wrongful dismissal even if the grounds are sound.
It may make your employer question how far they push this. By all means they are going through a process and if you feel you have been victimised due to lack of a policy for social media it's another pointy stick to poke in their genitals.
Take the emotion out of the situation and try to shape a response or direct some awkward questions back, take the initiative.
If you feel your treatment has been disproportionate you may want to question your future at your present employer which means a compromise agreement is drawn up. You get paid to leave with a good reference and ensure there is a confidentiality clause. Don't break the clause if you sign.
Above everything get some proper legal advice and not from some union guy. Private practice have sharper brains and their teeth are much sharper. IMHO.
I sit on the other side and the union guys i've met are to be frank, thick as s
t and while i accept this may not be representative.By all means keep the union on side, use their moral support but get yourself an attack dog to fight for your rights and rip your employers throat out for acting in such a way. I pride myself in never going before a tribunal to defend my actions and firmly believe if you treat people decently it's returned. Not always but it doesn't stop me trying. So a little rebalancing is needed so best wishes and I hope you find a decent attack dog.
A long read, i've probably forgotten to add some bits but you'll get the general gist of it. Been a very long day so I apologise if it's poorly written, i've left some bits out on purpose as a grievance is being pursued against the manager conducting the disciplinary by myself and the union.
Had the disciplinary meeting Wednesday. Had the union chairman in with me who is VERY, VERY good at what he does. Received my copy of the disciplinary invitation and accompanying documents 30 minutes before the meeting, which stated that this meeting may lead to my dismissal. The investigation report recommended that a disciplinary hearing should take place to find out if the taking of the photograph affected the smooth operation of the company. It recommended an outcome of no disciplinary award due to my previous impeccable record.
The investigation report also contained two statements that I did not make, as this is still an ongoing issue i'm not going to explain further. It also listed two things as evidence - 1) Email of complaint from the other company to the Head of Commercial Development 2) A conversation between the MD, Head of Ops and the Head of Commercial Development (which led to my suspension. Neither of these items were present in this report and at no point have they been made available for me to view/read.
The manager which conducted the disciplinary was the only one untainted by this investigation, and thus the only relevant manager able to conduct it.
First off, he was unable to explain why I was suspended. When pointed out that there is no justification in the company handbook (which all staff have to adhere to and all disciplinary matters have to follow) he refused to explain any further, saying that the reason was stated in the suspension letter. When pointed out that the reason in the suspension letter was not grounds for suspension - and therefore the company had no reason to suspend me he refused to explain any further. It was suggested that the company had no reason to suspend me - he declined to comment.
When asked on several points in the investigation report and on my statement it was clear the manager had not read ANY of it. He had gone into the meeting with a potential outcome of dismissal without reading any of the documentation. When questioned about the possible outcome of dismissal in relation to the investigation's recommendation his words were "This is my disciplinary, I don't have to read or listen to the recommendation I can do what I like. Whether I give you no award or dismiss you, it is up to me". As can be expected from this manager, his entire attitude during the whole hearing was standoffish, aggressive and bullying. They had also 'misplaced' the CCTV which showed that my version of events was true.
After waiting almost ten minutes for him to read the investigation and my statement he said that he was going to leave the room for 10 minutes to make his decision and when he returned he will be the only one speaking and any decision I can appeal. When told by the union rep that we are allowed to question him on his decision and ask him to explain it - he said "NO, I'm going to leave the room for 10 minutes to make my decision. When I return *I* will be the only one speaking. Do you have anything else to say because now is the time to do it."
My union rep said yes and requested that, as they were presented as evidence, that the manager should produce a copy of the complaint from the other company and a record of the conversation between the MD and the two aforementioned people. The manager adjourned the meeting until a future date and lifted my suspension with immediate effect. I asked how could he possibly decide that, after 12 days of being suspended, I can now immediately return to work. He declined to answer. The union rep stated that the company has a duty of care to me - and that after 12 days of being suspended without reason, how can I possibly be expected to immediately return to work still under the thread of dismissal. The manager declined to answer.
I went back to the union office to debrief when they had a phonecall from the Head of Ops, he'd instructed the manager to conclude this matter today and to gather the "missing" evidence. After 3 hours the union chairman was asked to meet the manager during which the manager insulted and swore at the union chairman - to cut a long story short they do not get on at all as the manager is hopelessly incompetent and the chairman does not let him get away with any errors. Again, I can't say too much on this matter as the union and myself are pursuing it (and the manager's behaviour towards me) as a separate matter. The meeting was to be reconvened at 3.30pm.
Went back there, the email of complaint from the other company could not be produced. The manager stated that a printed out screenshot of my facebook post was the email of complaint from the other company. There was no body of text (the complaint) and no other part of the document suggested that it was an email. It was simply a printed out screenshot. When challenged that this was NOT an email, and that either the email had not been produced for the hearing or it did not exist he again stated (simply) that "This is the email". When suggested that he was lying, he declined to comment.
There was no record of any conversations that, again, was presented as evidence in the investigation and the disciplinary report.
[b] He then went on to say he was giving me a written warning, reduced from a final written warning (????). When asked what his reasons were for this, he said "You can take it to appeal." When challenged that this was not a reason he said again, "you can take it to appeal." When I reminded he was legally obliged to explain his decision fully he stood up and leant towards me and said in an aggressive manner "I don't think you understand, Folos.". I asked him to calm down and stop trying to bully me as i'm not afraid of him. The union rep again asked him to explain his decision, he said (under duress) that I was receiving the written warning for:
Taking a photograph that may look like, may be interpreted by some people that it was a [our company] bus blocking in an [other company's] bus. Also, affecting the smooth operation of the company by getting off the bus to take a photo.
When asked to explain what about those two things amounts to a written warning, he said one word - "Conduct". It was clear that we were getting nowhere with him so the union rep and I decided to leave.[/b]
Two days later I received my official written warning - the reasons on which were different to those stated in the hearing. "Posting a photograph and comments on to a social media site that could cause acts likely to undermine the smooth operation of the business. Conduct- serious case unacceptable behaviour".
I was told by the company, and the manager was told by HR he was NOT allowed to put forward use of social media in the disciplinary as there was no social media policy in place at the time of this incident. There was no reference to social media or indeed facebook in any part of the investigation or disciplinary report. In effect 48 hours later he has made up a reason for giving me a written warning.
The union and myself fully believe that somebody in the company has decided to pursue this full steam ahead regardless of the consequences to set an example of me for a very minor mistake to deter anyone else in the company from posting something really damaging on facebook. He might as well have said "I'm giving you a written warning because somebody told me to do it". It's going to appeal and it's fully expected that it'll be reduced to no award.
Had the disciplinary meeting Wednesday. Had the union chairman in with me who is VERY, VERY good at what he does. Received my copy of the disciplinary invitation and accompanying documents 30 minutes before the meeting, which stated that this meeting may lead to my dismissal. The investigation report recommended that a disciplinary hearing should take place to find out if the taking of the photograph affected the smooth operation of the company. It recommended an outcome of no disciplinary award due to my previous impeccable record.
The investigation report also contained two statements that I did not make, as this is still an ongoing issue i'm not going to explain further. It also listed two things as evidence - 1) Email of complaint from the other company to the Head of Commercial Development 2) A conversation between the MD, Head of Ops and the Head of Commercial Development (which led to my suspension. Neither of these items were present in this report and at no point have they been made available for me to view/read.
The manager which conducted the disciplinary was the only one untainted by this investigation, and thus the only relevant manager able to conduct it.
First off, he was unable to explain why I was suspended. When pointed out that there is no justification in the company handbook (which all staff have to adhere to and all disciplinary matters have to follow) he refused to explain any further, saying that the reason was stated in the suspension letter. When pointed out that the reason in the suspension letter was not grounds for suspension - and therefore the company had no reason to suspend me he refused to explain any further. It was suggested that the company had no reason to suspend me - he declined to comment.
When asked on several points in the investigation report and on my statement it was clear the manager had not read ANY of it. He had gone into the meeting with a potential outcome of dismissal without reading any of the documentation. When questioned about the possible outcome of dismissal in relation to the investigation's recommendation his words were "This is my disciplinary, I don't have to read or listen to the recommendation I can do what I like. Whether I give you no award or dismiss you, it is up to me". As can be expected from this manager, his entire attitude during the whole hearing was standoffish, aggressive and bullying. They had also 'misplaced' the CCTV which showed that my version of events was true.
After waiting almost ten minutes for him to read the investigation and my statement he said that he was going to leave the room for 10 minutes to make his decision and when he returned he will be the only one speaking and any decision I can appeal. When told by the union rep that we are allowed to question him on his decision and ask him to explain it - he said "NO, I'm going to leave the room for 10 minutes to make my decision. When I return *I* will be the only one speaking. Do you have anything else to say because now is the time to do it."
My union rep said yes and requested that, as they were presented as evidence, that the manager should produce a copy of the complaint from the other company and a record of the conversation between the MD and the two aforementioned people. The manager adjourned the meeting until a future date and lifted my suspension with immediate effect. I asked how could he possibly decide that, after 12 days of being suspended, I can now immediately return to work. He declined to answer. The union rep stated that the company has a duty of care to me - and that after 12 days of being suspended without reason, how can I possibly be expected to immediately return to work still under the thread of dismissal. The manager declined to answer.
I went back to the union office to debrief when they had a phonecall from the Head of Ops, he'd instructed the manager to conclude this matter today and to gather the "missing" evidence. After 3 hours the union chairman was asked to meet the manager during which the manager insulted and swore at the union chairman - to cut a long story short they do not get on at all as the manager is hopelessly incompetent and the chairman does not let him get away with any errors. Again, I can't say too much on this matter as the union and myself are pursuing it (and the manager's behaviour towards me) as a separate matter. The meeting was to be reconvened at 3.30pm.
Went back there, the email of complaint from the other company could not be produced. The manager stated that a printed out screenshot of my facebook post was the email of complaint from the other company. There was no body of text (the complaint) and no other part of the document suggested that it was an email. It was simply a printed out screenshot. When challenged that this was NOT an email, and that either the email had not been produced for the hearing or it did not exist he again stated (simply) that "This is the email". When suggested that he was lying, he declined to comment.
There was no record of any conversations that, again, was presented as evidence in the investigation and the disciplinary report.
[b] He then went on to say he was giving me a written warning, reduced from a final written warning (????). When asked what his reasons were for this, he said "You can take it to appeal." When challenged that this was not a reason he said again, "you can take it to appeal." When I reminded he was legally obliged to explain his decision fully he stood up and leant towards me and said in an aggressive manner "I don't think you understand, Folos.". I asked him to calm down and stop trying to bully me as i'm not afraid of him. The union rep again asked him to explain his decision, he said (under duress) that I was receiving the written warning for:
Taking a photograph that may look like, may be interpreted by some people that it was a [our company] bus blocking in an [other company's] bus. Also, affecting the smooth operation of the company by getting off the bus to take a photo.
When asked to explain what about those two things amounts to a written warning, he said one word - "Conduct". It was clear that we were getting nowhere with him so the union rep and I decided to leave.[/b]
Two days later I received my official written warning - the reasons on which were different to those stated in the hearing. "Posting a photograph and comments on to a social media site that could cause acts likely to undermine the smooth operation of the business. Conduct- serious case unacceptable behaviour".
I was told by the company, and the manager was told by HR he was NOT allowed to put forward use of social media in the disciplinary as there was no social media policy in place at the time of this incident. There was no reference to social media or indeed facebook in any part of the investigation or disciplinary report. In effect 48 hours later he has made up a reason for giving me a written warning.
The union and myself fully believe that somebody in the company has decided to pursue this full steam ahead regardless of the consequences to set an example of me for a very minor mistake to deter anyone else in the company from posting something really damaging on facebook. He might as well have said "I'm giving you a written warning because somebody told me to do it". It's going to appeal and it's fully expected that it'll be reduced to no award.
Edited by folos on Monday 8th June 22:54
I trust that part of your grievance/complaint is that you were not provided with any evidence nor in a timely manner to enable you to prepare any defence therefore the meeting was not following the relevant case law and as such any written warning is not valid and should be immediately struck from your record.
Folos it's great that you are not taking this lying down and that you are showing up your management for being the incompetent fools they are, however (and you knew that was coming didn't you) - you will have made yourself several enemies in your management and they'll be watching you for any chance they can get. Bring your service in late, have an accident, have a fall out with a passenger in short anything. If I were you I think I'd move to a company with a less toxic environment ( and then you can tell us the whole story too).
Good luck, don't let the bullying tts get you down!
Good luck, don't let the bullying t
ts get you down!First: Good luck, I hope it all gets sorted out.
Second: if I Google "bus driver suspended for Facebook post" this thread is on page 3 of the results. It might be higher if I was searching from within the UK.
If I were you I'd have a think about that and see if I maybe wanted to go back and edit anything I'd posted previously. Purely to reduce the potential damage resulting from someone from your employer (or the competitor) deciding to have a Google during lunchtime. By the sounds of it they'd add it to the existing issue and use it against you.
Perhaps the post above should read "Quick update: had a meeting, didn't go as well as I hoped, still speaking to the Union about it".
Just a suggestion.
Second: if I Google "bus driver suspended for Facebook post" this thread is on page 3 of the results. It might be higher if I was searching from within the UK.
If I were you I'd have a think about that and see if I maybe wanted to go back and edit anything I'd posted previously. Purely to reduce the potential damage resulting from someone from your employer (or the competitor) deciding to have a Google during lunchtime. By the sounds of it they'd add it to the existing issue and use it against you.
Perhaps the post above should read "Quick update: had a meeting, didn't go as well as I hoped, still speaking to the Union about it".
Just a suggestion.
Jasandjules said:
I trust that part of your grievance/complaint is that you were not provided with any evidence nor in a timely manner to enable you to prepare any defence therefore the meeting was not following the relevant case law and as such any written warning is not valid and should be immediately struck from your record.
Just to emphasise the above, as far as I can tell, there is only one person posting here with in depth relevant experience. Jasandjules - it's probably worth taking his advice 
You've won the battle but a war will continue.
Take the subjective aspects out, how you feel and look at the companies behaviour and the question you have to ask yourself is. If they have treated you this way now whats going to change next time?
The culture and management seem stuck in the 80's so give consideration to looking for a new employer and I would be looking into the possibilities of bringing a case of constructive dismissal.
Your company has lied and your manager has persecuted you. See where your grievance goes but it sounds like the management will close ranks and it will cycle through as warning.
Take the subjective aspects out, how you feel and look at the companies behaviour and the question you have to ask yourself is. If they have treated you this way now whats going to change next time?
The culture and management seem stuck in the 80's so give consideration to looking for a new employer and I would be looking into the possibilities of bringing a case of constructive dismissal.
Your company has lied and your manager has persecuted you. See where your grievance goes but it sounds like the management will close ranks and it will cycle through as warning.
Eric Mc said:
I agree. Resignation followed by a claim for "Constructive Dismissal" could very well be a viable option.
At this point, not in my view. The current circumstances are insufficient to succeed in any claim. That said, the position can change very quickly indeed BUT always take firm advice before resigning to claim Constructive Dismissal if at all possible - it is quite a challenging claim to win.Jader1973 said:
Second: if I Google "bus driver suspended for Facebook post" this thread is on page 3 of the results. It might be higher if I was searching from within the UK.
If I were you I'd have a think about that and see if I maybe wanted to go back and edit anything I'd posted previously. Purely to reduce the potential damage resulting from someone from your employer (or the competitor) deciding to have a Google during lunchtime. By the sounds of it they'd add it to the existing issue and use it against you.
Probably the cookies in your browser are pointing you towards the PH thread, but agree, OP be careful what you post.If I were you I'd have a think about that and see if I maybe wanted to go back and edit anything I'd posted previously. Purely to reduce the potential damage resulting from someone from your employer (or the competitor) deciding to have a Google during lunchtime. By the sounds of it they'd add it to the existing issue and use it against you.
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