Are there any real benefits for working at a startup?

Are there any real benefits for working at a startup?

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Discussion

AB

16,969 posts

194 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
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I'm about to start for what is a new company in it's very infancy.

I'm excited by the prospect and the chance to be in there at the start and grow with the business.

Granted, it might not work, but I will give it my best shot.

What you say makes sense with the exception I was approached and made a good offer in terms of salary.

We'll see...

Good luck!

aizvara

2,050 posts

166 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
I joined a startup 10 years ago. I'm still here. We started with all the problems you mention (lower salary, risk etc...) but gradually we have turned into a medium sized company (with no outside investors) with all the normal benefits, and have retained a startup-feel, a relaxed attitude and fairly low weekly hours.

Overall, I'm really glad I chose to work here as it has been very interesting being involved in the way the company has grown, plus you know, shares. I think your experience at a startup will massively depend on the attitude of the people in charge.

andy-xr

13,204 posts

203 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
I work for one now. It's the opportunity to shape the company as well as how you want to work, with a lot of trials and tribulations along the way, but you're hopefully able to look back in 5 years and say 'I added XYZ and I'm proud of that'

I wear different hats depending on what day it is, I go to shows, travel, but still have remote working. The money isnt as good as what I could get elsewhere, but the opportunity is greater. It's not really about high flying for me anyway, I'm happy enough earning what I need to

I've worked for big corporates, and tbh I could have not gone in for a few days and no-one would really have noticed. I'd still have been paid, and it was hard at interview trying to answer the question of 'what did you do in your last role, and tell me about when you went over and above the job description'

Also, large corporates tend to have their heads up their arses a bit too much for me, I like to be a bit more flexible, cut deals where needed and move things along instead of getting stuck on detail.

Hoofy

76,253 posts

281 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
Agree with Andy. ^^^

I'm always drawn towards start-ups. Much more interesting. As the start-up turns into a daily grind, I can feel myself getting bored and think about an exit so I can look for another.

cluckcluck said:
- your shares are meaningless, investors will always get the best ones
- your shares are really meaningless, the boss/creators will always get the best ones
- your shares are really, really meaningless, if you leave they are lost/reduced
I will have to try to remember this. Currently working with a start-up and will be looking for investors later this year.

okgo

37,849 posts

197 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
Suppose it depends just how early doors it is.

I work for a tech company that would call themselves a pre IPO start up, but truth is, its got 1000 employee's and has pension, pays well, etc etc, so not really one at all.

However some others that approach me are certainly more startup-esque but are usually backed by a successful operation in another market, so again despite there being 10 people in the UK, they have the clout of a strong US business. I would quite like to work for a UK startup, but they're pretty rare in advertising tech.

cashmax

1,099 posts

239 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
cluckcluck said:
I always wanted to work for a start-up, and finally got the opportunity last year.

9 months on I'm a broken man! Nothing has ever tested me in all areas so brutally, and effected me mentally so much. I've had a sole trader software business in the past and 3 full time jobs since, but they were all super straight-forward compared to this.

Only the first month was fun and exciting, and after 9 months of 100 questions a day, brain melting programming, managing a manic junior programmer plus dealing with a pleasant, but demanding 'i want a facebook clone in 3 days' type of boss I've sadly burnt out and will be looking to leave in 3 months for the sake of my sanity and job security (i want to get mortgage in the next year).


The Benefits?
In my case career progressions are managing the technical side of the project for my boss and managing a junior - both new job experiences. Also being exposed to seemingly impossible goals and hitting them is great, but after so many in a short time is ultimately draining.

Most people in start-ups seem to say the accelerated learning experience.


But... are they any real benefits for working at a startup?
I'm not being negative, but after time I think the below points are felt, and far out-way the benefits:

- no safety net, the company could fold at any point, any day
- no redundancy
- no healthcare
- no pension
- your shares are meaningless, investors will always get the best ones
- your shares are really meaningless, the boss/creators will always get the best ones
- your shares are really, really meaningless, if you leave they are lost/reduced
- the 'revolutionary' company is hyped and after time you realise its just not true
- few staff, with no/bad office management
- no training schemes
- lower salary, especially considering you get a heavier work load
- possibly, but most likely longer hours
- no voucher schemes/car share schemes
- feeling of more than normal guilt if ill or late as you become to feel personally accountable for someones business
- lack of workspace banter as only a few staff, usually that don't have time to talk!
- your brain will ache, and stress will effect you much more than the same job elsewhere
- .. plus more i've forgotten


I'm glad i tried it and would be interesting to hear anyone else's experiences / feedback!


Edited by cluckcluck on Tuesday 2nd June 22:52
I ended up founding a startup business 10 years ago.

Whilst it has been a long slog and hard work for everyone involved in the early days I can honestly say that it is the ONLY way to create an environment where people who would be dis functional in a normal business environment can flourish.

The shares are worthless argument is a silly one. They are only worthless if you allow them to be. Many people are weary of getting investment, but if ou really want to grow your business it's the most sensible way in my opinion. All the people involved from the early days have banked more than £1M over the last 2 rounds of investment. So I doubt they would say they are worthless!

The main thing people forget is that from a safety net or security point of view, you have much less control in a corporate business, it just feels more stressful in a startup because you actually know what's going on, the first time you know there might be problems in a normal role is likely to be the day the company hits the wall and you read about it online!

Royce44

394 posts

112 months

Friday 5th June 2015
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Ive worked for my boss now 18months. I joined with just him and his wife doing the admin. Now we have another guy and an apprentice.

The pros FAR out weigh the cons, i used to work at a big frim with 200 engineers (i do fire alarms), hours were long and strict, procedures were ridiculous.

With my boss, im usually home within 9hrs door to door, rather than 13hrs before. My boss let me choose my van, so got a caddy maxi with automatic (lifesaver in lindon) whereas imwas given a 90k mile octavia without aircon.

Sorry i waffled on a bit there. My overall point is because were smaller im treated much better, and it works as i work harder for him in return

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 6th June 2015
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Working in a startup is a bit of a marmite situation, you either love it or hate it.

I joined one and it has made me better at my job than I ever expected but has been very hard work, we have done things that other people are blown away by but for me is just something we have done.

I didn't realise the view others took of the things the company has achieved until I was talking to an old colleague from a company I worked at 15+ years ago.

On the financial side, always push for the best salary deal you can get upfront especially if the company is high risk, taking on a startup for a low salary is not a wise move as they pretty much grind you up as you are finding out.

On the shares side, if the company succeeds early on with very few funding rounds i.e. 1 or 2 you can make money from share options but more funding rounds just deplete the funds that payout for the employees. The investors get their returns before the employees do. They may allow you to buy the shares but again these will be devalued by additional funding rounds so probably best not too. Make sure you keep all the paperwork the company gives you relating to shares/options as this is important if the company is lucky and gets bought out.

Lastly, the boss and management will always walk over the other employees when it comes to getting their share of the pie.

Tuna

19,930 posts

283 months

Tuesday 16th June 2015
quotequote all
I've worked for big and small corporates, investment vehicles and alongside various startups.

If the company is not your own (sounds like it from your post), the big question is exit strategies - yours and the owners'. Is the company taking a punt on something new, or trying to establish as a new player in an existing marketplace? Is the owner building it as a lifestyle business (ie. plans to stay in it and use it to furnish a comfortable lifestyle) or an investment (ie. plans to sell out to a competitor or other investor in X years)? Do you want to build a career in a growing company or get out quick with the money?

The answer to those questions decide whether the pain is short or long term, and what the pay off is for sticking with it. It also gives you a measure to decide whether the business is going somewhere or not.

I've seen a few owners BS their way through meetings, claiming a company was a 'high tech startup' when in fact it was just a code-shop for a big corporate. They get cheap, enthusiastic workers who believe they're changing the world, and in return they just have to offer some shares (in a company that will never be sold) and keep turning the handle. Being a start up can just be an excuse for putting up with chaotic work, poor environment and no strong long term plan.

At the other end of the spectrum, I've seen companies built with the specific intent of selling out in 3-5 years, with a list of likely buyers prepared from day one. On the whole, it always takes longer than planned, but one made it's owners billionaires, one made it's first few coders millionaires and another paid off a few mortgages. I didn't get shares in any of them, so don't take financial advice from me smile

To my mind, the rule with start ups is fail fast. Don't get tricked into a continual grind trying to preserve some original idea that isn't going anywhere. Take a step back, look where the business is going and if it's not benefiting you to continue then get out or change the plan. If in the process you meet people who you want to work with again, then take them along to the next start up and do it better.

Is it worth it? Depends on how you deal with stress and uncertainty, and what sort of work you find rewarding. Personally I thrive on picking up new technologies and techniques, and applying them in unusual ways - and I loose all interest if I'm having to maintain existing services. That makes me great as a contractor or R&D guy, makes me rubbish in a long established business.

Otispunkmeyer

12,555 posts

154 months

Tuesday 16th June 2015
quotequote all
Currently working in a start up of sorts.

When I started a year ago the company was actually fairly sized at about 250 employees. There were 4 divisions and there were only a handful of people in the part I worked in, but all being on the same site, it didn't really have that start up feel. Anyway, it all went tits up and got broken up and sold off. Our little section got bought up and now we're starting from scratch with 5-6 guys.

For me I see the pros and cons as thus;

Pro (in no particular order):

No real politics, no real pecking order. Everyone just mucks in. You are not pigeon holed or rooted to a particular set of jobs. You have to be flexible. I've been doing all sorts; desinging experiments, analysis of data, soldering ECU connectors, programming ECUs, Engine calibration on engine dyno...list goes on. That level of flexibility and diversity I see only as a good thing. You get listened to, your opinions carry weight because there are only a few of us. There is lots of autonomy, the boss is too busy to micro-manage so you are left to your own devices much of the time. Its lead to a very flexible working practice here. No one minds so long as stuff gets done and done right.

Given the plans by the new owners the future is very positive. We're expanding, hiring new staff, buying new equipment, setting up our own procedures and standards, will begin designing additional products that we currently only buy in and at some point we may end up on the stock exchange. Theres good feeling about being there when it all kicked off, having the opportunity to shape things and potentially being in on the ground floor when it all takes off. Though I guess time will tell if we can get in on any share offering or whether the owner will keep it all to himself.


Cons

Lots of work and often work that you have no experience in, haven't got much of a clue about. Makes undertaking the work daunting, but it is an opportunity to learn something new. I mentioned we were expanding, but we're still only small, with limited money so buying and hiring the stuff we really need still has issues. We're not like Mercedes who will think nothing of ordering a whole batch of AVL kit for their test cells. We're on the make do a mend train with some items. At the moment pensions are all screwed up so no ones getting theirs paid, again as mentioned the whole shooting match could fold at a moments notice and pay isn't brilliant. Pay isn't bad, they've had to pay decent money to get decent people, but payrises will be out of the question for sometime I would have thought. At least until we start turning healthy profits (which may or may never come!). But there are no other bonuses; no bonus pay, regulation minimum holidays, no voucher schemes or company cars, travel is minimised, we're using computers that are 5-6 years old and servers that are older than that. A lot of the Dyno bay computers are still running XP!


The bad thing for us is whilst we are struggling to continue our very challenging engineering projects, the other half of the company that got bought by someone else and provides those temporary concrete barriers you might see on the M1 or even at TG live in the arena, is making money hand over fist. Interconnecting concrete blocks, they're rushed off their feet with demand!

Sometimes I get the feeling, bespoke, high-tech engineering just isn't worth it. Do something simple like concrete blocks, packaging, gym t-shirts, marketing BS etc...seems to make more money, faster! One of the worlds richest men owns companies that do proper mundane stuff like injection moulded parts for Toyota and Nissan.



Otispunkmeyer

12,555 posts

154 months

Tuesday 16th June 2015
quotequote all
gottans said:
Working in a startup is a bit of a marmite situation, you either love it or hate it.

I joined one and it has made me better at my job than I ever expected but has been very hard work, we have done things that other people are blown away by but for me is just something we have done.

I didn't realise the view others took of the things the company has achieved until I was talking to an old colleague from a company I worked at 15+ years ago.

On the financial side, always push for the best salary deal you can get upfront especially if the company is high risk, taking on a startup for a low salary is not a wise move as they pretty much grind you up as you are finding out.

On the shares side, if the company succeeds early on with very few funding rounds i.e. 1 or 2 you can make money from share options but more funding rounds just deplete the funds that payout for the employees. The investors get their returns before the employees do. They may allow you to buy the shares but again these will be devalued by additional funding rounds so probably best not too. Make sure you keep all the paperwork the company gives you relating to shares/options as this is important if the company is lucky and gets bought out.

Lastly, the boss and management will always walk over the other employees when it comes to getting their share of the pie.
Salient point for me that second line.

We've have two OEMs recoil in puzzlement when we mention in passing getting our system to work on newer engines with model based control. And also when we discussed our trials with multi-burst injection and optimising injection rate shaping. This is all just stuff we've tried that started as a scribble on piece of paper, was written to code and then tried on an engine within a few days. They simply didn't understand how we were doing it.

Big risks of course, we could have easily detonated an engine and damaged the test cells. Its nice not having procedures sometimes. Or HR. Or H&S. Or lots of engineers afflicted by "analysis paralysis". We go down the suck it and see route of development.

Mr E

21,581 posts

258 months

Thursday 25th June 2015
quotequote all
The working on everything and just getting on with it are essential for the startup mentality. There is nowhere to hide.

The bit you got wrong was "lower salary". If you're giving up all the stability and benefits, you need to be suitably compensated.