Career Advice- IT
Discussion
Well where to begin...
I'm currently a Team leader/Trainee Manager in a highly respected retail company. Thought it would be the route to go but I'm starting to hate the drag of retail. Prospects aren't as good as I once imagined and due to many cuts, the productivity that is expected cannot be maintained.
My education route is IT, I studied a Level 3 advanced diploma in IT and was the route I always wanted to go. I started a degree but quit as I didn't enjoy more full time studying and chose to persue a retail career which I obviously regret.
So the main question is where next? Which IT route does everyone reccommend in terms of prospects and salary down the road. I am quite open to gaining qualifications such as CCNA or anything that can be acquired short term. Just not sure whether my skillset is enough for certain positions. Being 22, I have time on my hands but want to make the change sooner rather than later.
I hope my fellow Pistonheaders can help a demoralised miserable git.
I'm currently a Team leader/Trainee Manager in a highly respected retail company. Thought it would be the route to go but I'm starting to hate the drag of retail. Prospects aren't as good as I once imagined and due to many cuts, the productivity that is expected cannot be maintained.
My education route is IT, I studied a Level 3 advanced diploma in IT and was the route I always wanted to go. I started a degree but quit as I didn't enjoy more full time studying and chose to persue a retail career which I obviously regret.
So the main question is where next? Which IT route does everyone reccommend in terms of prospects and salary down the road. I am quite open to gaining qualifications such as CCNA or anything that can be acquired short term. Just not sure whether my skillset is enough for certain positions. Being 22, I have time on my hands but want to make the change sooner rather than later.
I hope my fellow Pistonheaders can help a demoralised miserable git.
if you follow a generalist path you can end up as a manager, then the role/career path becomes one of getting good at managing others, understanding business. If you fancy this then some business courses will help more than the latest tech course
if you like the tech side more, then you really need to specialise, learn some real deep skills in some areas, whether thats storage, servers, networking ...whatever. Manufacturer courses really help here, combined with real world implementation experience
In some large organisations you can follow either path and earn a good living...it really depends on many other factors in your life, what you like doing, how far you want to go and sacrifices you are prepared to make along the way
Find your dream goal and try to plot a path that will take you there. The great thing about the world of IT or technology, is that it changes daily, theres always something to learn and new skills to acquire
if you like the tech side more, then you really need to specialise, learn some real deep skills in some areas, whether thats storage, servers, networking ...whatever. Manufacturer courses really help here, combined with real world implementation experience
In some large organisations you can follow either path and earn a good living...it really depends on many other factors in your life, what you like doing, how far you want to go and sacrifices you are prepared to make along the way
Find your dream goal and try to plot a path that will take you there. The great thing about the world of IT or technology, is that it changes daily, theres always something to learn and new skills to acquire
I'd want to know a little more about your current role before giving any words of wisdom.
You say trainee manager - how far into training are you. Does it lead to a management position? A management role at a well known company is powerful on a CV in any industry, especially if you're young.
Do you have exposure to IT within retail. For example, ePOS or stock management services? If yes, how proficient are you?
Does the retail company you work for have any IT presence in the UK? If you were to gain IT qualifications whilst continuing in your current role, could there be any internal openings? Do you have any opportunity to talk about such possibilities in your network?
Reasons for the questions - it's quite rare to have IT people with good experience in a core part of the business. If you could take what you know and move sideways into IT, it would mean not having to start from the bottom and work back up to where you are now. I'm thinking roles such as IT business partner to a retail function, subject matter expert for retail IT systems, service delivery for the function or, to keep up with the times, a DevOps / agile PM type role in what Gartner now term bimodal IT - mode 2.
You say trainee manager - how far into training are you. Does it lead to a management position? A management role at a well known company is powerful on a CV in any industry, especially if you're young.
Do you have exposure to IT within retail. For example, ePOS or stock management services? If yes, how proficient are you?
Does the retail company you work for have any IT presence in the UK? If you were to gain IT qualifications whilst continuing in your current role, could there be any internal openings? Do you have any opportunity to talk about such possibilities in your network?
Reasons for the questions - it's quite rare to have IT people with good experience in a core part of the business. If you could take what you know and move sideways into IT, it would mean not having to start from the bottom and work back up to where you are now. I'm thinking roles such as IT business partner to a retail function, subject matter expert for retail IT systems, service delivery for the function or, to keep up with the times, a DevOps / agile PM type role in what Gartner now term bimodal IT - mode 2.
I recommend trying to get into an IT service provider at the bottom and work your way up. My generic advice to new IT bods:
Finally, interpersonal skills and being able to empathise when supporting clients/colleagues in IT will do you lots of good. I recommend reading 'The Compassionate Geek' for a detailed rundown on this.TurricanII said:
Consider early on whether you want to be a programmer, network person (routers VLANS VPNS ETC) or System Admin. Once you get a job and start doing one of these specific skills it is very hard to be a top notch commercially capable programmer, guru network bod AND expert system admin. It's best to focus on one skill initially.
Also give thought to working in house, on one company's internal helpdesk, or for a 3rd party IT support company.
I am of the opinion that in house is the worst choice because:
One thing I should have done was to keep in touch with intelligent/connected people I worked with in 3rd party support companies. Having a good contact base is great for learning of new opportunities.
Finally, think about whether you might end up running your own company. Soak up the experiences you get from any employers, keep an eye on how things are done and any problems. Then you will find it a lot easier staring up yourself one day.
and...Also give thought to working in house, on one company's internal helpdesk, or for a 3rd party IT support company.
I am of the opinion that in house is the worst choice because:
- 3rd party support companies get brought in by the IT Manager to do the good stuff
- Training budgets are tighter
- You stagnate on one set of systems for ages
- The learning curve in many companies is long and slow
- politics seems to have a greater influence
- They make money by selling your time, which encourages training opportunities and motivates them/you to get out on site doing the job. Less politics in my opinion
- You get exposed to the latest software and kit as different customers buy it
- You often get increased access to training copies of software
- You get access to other experienced techies who can give advice and mentor you
- good opportunities to change job and boost your salary with other 3rd party companies - especially if you can bring new clients to the company
One thing I should have done was to keep in touch with intelligent/connected people I worked with in 3rd party support companies. Having a good contact base is great for learning of new opportunities.
Finally, think about whether you might end up running your own company. Soak up the experiences you get from any employers, keep an eye on how things are done and any problems. Then you will find it a lot easier staring up yourself one day.
TurricanII said:
...
One other pearler of advice I spotted on PH is as follows: don't apply for jobs. When a job is advertised there is a whole ballache of a process for employers, plus you are one applicant of many.
Identify as many possible companies as you can and read their websites. Write a custom cover letter to each. I would address it to the MD for smaller firms and possibly to the support manager for the mid to large firms. I would include some common spiel along the lines of "I understand that advertising a job or paying recruitment agencies, filtering hundreds of C.V.'s and interviewing are costly for a busy company. Having read your website and read about your products on xyz website I feel that I would very much enjoy working on your support team providing the best service support to your clients. I include my C.V. for consideration in the event that you may need an additional support/network person, and would very much like to pop in for an interview at your convenience if appropriate."
I am an employer (albeit small company) and someone could be bothered to write to me for a job, considering my needs, and saving me the hassle listed above, then I would invite them for a coffee at least (and have done this). But it has only happened a few times in ten years. There have been periods of months where we could do with a support engineer but my co-director and I put it off - and someone taking the above approach would have at least gotten a few months trial. Edited to add - I invite other PH'ers to refine my above advice, it is not perfect! I took on a soon to be college leaver in Feb 2012 after he wrote to us.
One other pearler of advice I spotted on PH is as follows: don't apply for jobs. When a job is advertised there is a whole ballache of a process for employers, plus you are one applicant of many.
Identify as many possible companies as you can and read their websites. Write a custom cover letter to each. I would address it to the MD for smaller firms and possibly to the support manager for the mid to large firms. I would include some common spiel along the lines of "I understand that advertising a job or paying recruitment agencies, filtering hundreds of C.V.'s and interviewing are costly for a busy company. Having read your website and read about your products on xyz website I feel that I would very much enjoy working on your support team providing the best service support to your clients. I include my C.V. for consideration in the event that you may need an additional support/network person, and would very much like to pop in for an interview at your convenience if appropriate."
I am an employer (albeit small company) and someone could be bothered to write to me for a job, considering my needs, and saving me the hassle listed above, then I would invite them for a coffee at least (and have done this). But it has only happened a few times in ten years. There have been periods of months where we could do with a support engineer but my co-director and I put it off - and someone taking the above approach would have at least gotten a few months trial. Edited to add - I invite other PH'ers to refine my above advice, it is not perfect! I took on a soon to be college leaver in Feb 2012 after he wrote to us.
onedsla said:
I'd want to know a little more about your current role before giving any words of wisdom.
You say trainee manager - how far into training are you. Does it lead to a management position? A management role at a well known company is powerful on a CV in any industry, especially if you're young.
Do you have exposure to IT within retail. For example, ePOS or stock management services? If yes, how proficient are you?
Does the retail company you work for have any IT presence in the UK? If you were to gain IT qualifications whilst continuing in your current role, could there be any internal openings? Do you have any opportunity to talk about such possibilities in your network?
Reasons for the questions - it's quite rare to have IT people with good experience in a core part of the business. If you could take what you know and move sideways into IT, it would mean not having to start from the bottom and work back up to where you are now. I'm thinking roles such as IT business partner to a retail function, subject matter expert for retail IT systems, service delivery for the function or, to keep up with the times, a DevOps / agile PM type role in what Gartner now term bimodal IT - mode 2.
Do you mind if I drop you a PM?You say trainee manager - how far into training are you. Does it lead to a management position? A management role at a well known company is powerful on a CV in any industry, especially if you're young.
Do you have exposure to IT within retail. For example, ePOS or stock management services? If yes, how proficient are you?
Does the retail company you work for have any IT presence in the UK? If you were to gain IT qualifications whilst continuing in your current role, could there be any internal openings? Do you have any opportunity to talk about such possibilities in your network?
Reasons for the questions - it's quite rare to have IT people with good experience in a core part of the business. If you could take what you know and move sideways into IT, it would mean not having to start from the bottom and work back up to where you are now. I'm thinking roles such as IT business partner to a retail function, subject matter expert for retail IT systems, service delivery for the function or, to keep up with the times, a DevOps / agile PM type role in what Gartner now term bimodal IT - mode 2.
I think Networking interests me a lot, I have a basic knowledge of it. Interestingly I had the opportunity to go the CCNA route whilst studying but chose to go the web route, dabbled in a little Web Design, which included 3 months experience with a company, creating pages and photoshopping images. Coding really isn't my thing, and I guess I am a bit of a jack of all trades with IT, but master of none.
Would it be wise for me to attain a CCNA certification whilst working towards management at work and hope its short term?
University is out of the question, not only because I don't want to study for another 3 years, but my circumstances do not support it.
Would it be wise for me to attain a CCNA certification whilst working towards management at work and hope its short term?
University is out of the question, not only because I don't want to study for another 3 years, but my circumstances do not support it.
CCNA is just a piece of paper. It's pretty useless without experience as often what happens in real life isn't what happens in the books. Everyone is networking will have it so it's essential in that respect. I'd certainly aim to go hands on to build knowledge before specialising.
Do take on board what other have said though, IT needs people who can translate complex geek to normal human language. management and people skills can be thin on the ground.
Being able to explain to people whats happening will get you further than being able to calculate subnet masks in your head.
Do take on board what other have said though, IT needs people who can translate complex geek to normal human language. management and people skills can be thin on the ground.
Being able to explain to people whats happening will get you further than being able to calculate subnet masks in your head.
Bullett said:
CCNA is just a piece of paper. It's pretty useless without experience as often what happens in real life isn't what happens in the books. Everyone is networking will have it so it's essential in that respect. I'd certainly aim to go hands on to build knowledge before specialising.
Do take on board what other have said though, IT needs people who can translate complex geek to normal human language. management and people skills can be thin on the ground.
Being able to explain to people whats happening will get you further than being able to calculate subnet masks in your head.
Agree mostly. I think CCNA helped me get a job out of uni. And as you say every sod has CCNA/CCNP etc and without it youre already one step behind. There are plenty of CCIE's to choose from these days as well..... Do take on board what other have said though, IT needs people who can translate complex geek to normal human language. management and people skills can be thin on the ground.
Being able to explain to people whats happening will get you further than being able to calculate subnet masks in your head.
Anyone can setup a network to 'best practice' - thats what Google is for. I think the 'skill' comes with finding a problem quickly and without the experience you just cant do it. Like Bullett said there's stuff they just don't teach you. I'd learn STP until you know it inside out, subnetting and basic network operation questions (What is routing, how does Host A communicate with Host B on the switch network -- think ARP).
Good career path I think but an aggressive industry especially in London getting a job might not be easy (that pays well). You can google CCNA/CCNP/CCIE jobs on job serve to get an idea on the pay. If you do consider networking remember you will be providing a service (No one thanks you) and to most people its a black hole so EVERYONE blames the network for every IT related problem I s
t you not which can be frustrating at times. I do it because I genuenly find it interesting and I am pretty good at it but I would suffer if I didnt. I would also be bored out my skull looking after small business switches or doing desktop support with a bit of networking in a school. NOC work is a good place to begin if you can stomach shifts or a helpdesk position where networks is your primary focus.Studio117 said:
Support is often an easy entry point.
This is probably true. A degree in Computer Science and a job as a programmer is probably near the other end of the scale.There's a balance of investment vs. reward. At 22 I'd be looking to do whatever the most difficult thing is that you're interested in. If you've no interest in programming or support, don't go near either.
If I were you I'd skip the technical side and move into project management or IT architecture\design. Get a few years as a permie under your belt then go contracting. By far the biggest earning potential with day rates starting from £400 a day and going up plus it's not as competitive.
Technical IT is a dead end unless you are VERY good or do something VERY specialised. Everything is being outsourced and you can't really compete with a 100 million Indians who have multiple degrees\qualifications but are willing to work 12 hour days for peanuts in comparison.
IT salaries have been pretty much stagnant for the past 10 years and some even going backwards. I've seen jobs which want CCNE qualifications up to the gazoo paying £30k a year because they know if you won't do it, there are a hundred overseas people who will. Sorry to paint a gloomy picture but I work in Technical IT and unless there is a massive u-turn on outsourcing, we are pretty much fu*ked within 10 years.
Technical IT is a dead end unless you are VERY good or do something VERY specialised. Everything is being outsourced and you can't really compete with a 100 million Indians who have multiple degrees\qualifications but are willing to work 12 hour days for peanuts in comparison.
IT salaries have been pretty much stagnant for the past 10 years and some even going backwards. I've seen jobs which want CCNE qualifications up to the gazoo paying £30k a year because they know if you won't do it, there are a hundred overseas people who will. Sorry to paint a gloomy picture but I work in Technical IT and unless there is a massive u-turn on outsourcing, we are pretty much fu*ked within 10 years.
Guvernator said:
If I were you I'd skip the technical side and move into project management or IT architecture\design. Get a few years as a permie under your belt then go contracting. By far the biggest earning potential with day rates starting from £400 a day and going up plus it's not as competitive.
Technical IT is a dead end unless you are VERY good or do something VERY specialised. Everything is being outsourced and you can't really compete with a 100 million Indians who have multiple degrees\qualifications but are willing to work 12 hour days for peanuts in comparison.
IT salaries have been pretty much stagnant for the past 10 years and some even going backwards. I've seen jobs which want CCNE qualifications up to the gazoo paying £30k a year because they know if you won't do it, there are a hundred overseas people who will. Sorry to paint a gloomy picture but I work in Technical IT and unless there is a massive u-turn on outsourcing, we are pretty much fu*ked within 10 years.
There have always been companies after CCIE level staff for £30k nothing has changed. BUT if you look you will find jobs at CCIE level for £60-70k or more with architect roles pushing £100k. Contracting has always been £350-650 and they ARE mostly technical roles. Do people actually employ architects with minimal or no industry experience? Technical IT is a dead end unless you are VERY good or do something VERY specialised. Everything is being outsourced and you can't really compete with a 100 million Indians who have multiple degrees\qualifications but are willing to work 12 hour days for peanuts in comparison.
IT salaries have been pretty much stagnant for the past 10 years and some even going backwards. I've seen jobs which want CCNE qualifications up to the gazoo paying £30k a year because they know if you won't do it, there are a hundred overseas people who will. Sorry to paint a gloomy picture but I work in Technical IT and unless there is a massive u-turn on outsourcing, we are pretty much fu*ked within 10 years.
I have not met an Indian that is good at networking, or anything (one of ours just deleted all our documentation on share point). But its not like a company just uproots and outsources to India, they do it because they can have staff at £2500 a year, so for someone on £35k in the UK they can go have 14 of them and have them look after internal applications or provide support. Makes perfect sense to me.
MikeGoodwin said:
There have always been companies after CCIE level staff for £30k nothing has changed. BUT if you look you will find jobs at CCIE level for £60-70k or more with architect roles pushing £100k. Contracting has always been £350-650 and they ARE mostly technical roles. Do people actually employ architects with minimal or no industry experience?
I have not met an Indian that is good at networking, or anything (one of ours just deleted all our documentation on share point). But its not like a company just uproots and outsources to India, they do it because they can have staff at £2500 a year, so for someone on £35k in the UK they can go have 14 of them and have them look after internal applications or provide support. Makes perfect sense to me.
I know there has always been disparity with top and bottom scale salaries, however I seem to be seeing more bottom scale and on average salaries haven't really gone up in the last 10 years. I've been in the sector for a long time so I've seen the insource\outsource cycle repeated a number of times. However this one seems different, hosted services\cloud doesn't just seem to be a fad this time round and if it's here to stay then so is outsourcing as when it doesn't really matter where your hardware\kit is then the same can be said for your staff.I have not met an Indian that is good at networking, or anything (one of ours just deleted all our documentation on share point). But its not like a company just uproots and outsources to India, they do it because they can have staff at £2500 a year, so for someone on £35k in the UK they can go have 14 of them and have them look after internal applications or provide support. Makes perfect sense to me.
You say I've you haven't met an Indian who isn't good at networking, I've met some geniuses who'd put CISCO engineers to shame, they are hungry for opportunity so they work and study VERY hard. Of course a lot are absolute pony but their are many that are at least on a par with what's on offer here except they work for 10 times less money.
If I was starting an IT career now I'd forget about trying to compete against what is now a Global Market, it seems management, project management and design are being kept in the UK at present so I just think these types of roles have more opportunity and less competition.
No people will not employ an inexperienced person in those roles but if you set your goals in this direction early, you can gain the experience quicker rather than spending years gaining technical skills only to find once you get there that you've been priced out of the market. Some may not agree but this is genuinely the way I see things going. Even I am looking to retrain to enter the design or project management area as I just don't see a long term future in Technical skills especially something like networking which is already oversaturated.
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