Difficult Employee - Advice Needed!

Difficult Employee - Advice Needed!

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Discussion

romeogolf

Original Poster:

2,056 posts

118 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
quotequote all
edc said:
Corridor conversations are great but how much of the first post and these events is documented? From what you write airing this at review will be a bit of a surprise. Rather than criticising what have you done to show her how you want her to behave and communicate?
The prompt for this post was a conversation she had yesterday. She told me the person she was on the phone to was "giving attitude", talking over her, not being helpful etc. I asked if she'd been clear in what she was asking for and she cut in with "I know you think it's just my perception but seriously, he was being well rude to me and I ain't taking it. I don't need to be spoken to like that!"

So, she's aware of the conversations we've had and she knows I feel she needs to re-evaluate how she thinks people are treating her. I'm stuck as to how I can make her see that there's an issue on her end.

I'd like her to communicate more clearly. It's silly things, like her emails being poorly worded/spelt with appalling grammar. Or she'll say "Can you do X?" rather than "could you do X?" Subtle things which are quite hard to demonstrate without coming across as too attacking (which would obviously make things worse). I'm aware that I can be quite a confrontational person sometimes so the effort for me is to make sure that I don't do this the wrong way!

andy-xr

13,204 posts

203 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
quotequote all
What do you mean?

How do you mean?


One of these is confrontational, one of them is 'tell me a little more about this problem, go into some detail'

anothernameitist

1,500 posts

134 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
quotequote all
giving attitude", talking over her, not being helpful etc. I asked if she'd been clear in what she was asking for and she cut in with "I know you think it's just my perception but seriously, he was being well rude to me and I ain't taking it. I don't need to be spoken to like that!"

Vicky Pollard?

romeogolf

Original Poster:

2,056 posts

118 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
quotequote all
anothernameitist said:
Vicky Pollard?
If Vicky had a decent hair-cut and wore a suit to work; Yes.

romeogolf

Original Poster:

2,056 posts

118 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
quotequote all
Standard scenario just occurred.

Employee: *describes scenario in which a customer is short with her*
Me: That seems unlike him.
E: I ain't lying
Me: I'm didn't say you were [laughing] I just mean it's unlike him to be like that.
E: Ask *other colleague*! She was there! You're always telling me I'm seeing things wrong, but, really, he was really off.

I didn't reply at the further.

andy-xr

13,204 posts

203 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
quotequote all
romeogolf said:
I didn't reply at the further.
You're not the right manager for her. You need to either get on the same side and figure it out together as a team or you'll be distances apart and one of you will leave, probably under a tribunal or other cloud.

romeogolf

Original Poster:

2,056 posts

118 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
quotequote all
andy-xr said:
You're not the right manager for her. You need to either get on the same side and figure it out together as a team or you'll be distances apart and one of you will leave, probably under a tribunal or other cloud.
How would you have treated that reply then? I'm looking for help because I don't want the scenario you describe.

TIGA84

5,204 posts

230 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
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I don't know specifically what I said, but it sounds like you knew the bloke on the end of the phone to make the comment you did.

Ring him and ask his side of the story.

How old is she btw? I'm guessing 23/24?

andy-xr

13,204 posts

203 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
quotequote all
It's my opinion only, but if I raised up a small problem with someone and they laughed at me and told me the opposite of what I thought was true, I'd start questioning whether they're helping me. If they're not helping me, are they hindering me, and how.

If you keep saying to someone that they're wrong, then everything they do is wrong. That cant feel nice.

If the same problem keeps coming up, then you need to work with this person and ask them to show you how what someone's saying to them is personal. Would they have been rude to anyone, or just them. If it's just them, why would that be. You're going to need to take a bit of a child mentality, because I think that's what you're dealing with.

They could well be building a case for leaving and justifying it to themselves, then to you. Bullying would be somewhere near the list.

If you dont have the skills for this, you're better off pulling in people who do. Work with this woman and if needs be through HR as well, but I think you need to show you're bothered about helping sort the problem more than you have been doing, even if you're not.

Part of that might be to start recording calls with agreement from HR/the person and set aside half an hour on a Friday to go through some highlights and lowlights

Edited by andy-xr on Thursday 23 July 13:41

TIGA84

5,204 posts

230 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
quotequote all
andy-xr said:
It's my opinion only, but if I raised up a small problem with someone and they laughed at me and told me the opposite of what I thought was true, I'd start questioning whether they're helping me. If they're not helping me, are they hindering me, and how.

If you keep saying to someone that they're wrong, then everything they do is wrong. That cant feel nice.

If the same problem keeps coming up, then you need to work with this person and ask them to show you how what someone's saying to them is personal. Would they have been rude to anyone, or just them. If it's just them, why would that be. You're going to need to take a bit of a child mentality, because I think that's what you're dealing with.

They could well be building a case for leaving and justifying it to themselves, then to you. Bullying would be somewhere near the list.

If you dont have the skills for this, you're better off pulling in people who do. Work with this woman and if needs be through HR as well, but I think you need to show you're bothered about helping sort the problem more than you have been doing, even if you're not.
Ignore me, listen to him.


romeogolf

Original Poster:

2,056 posts

118 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
quotequote all
andy-xr said:
It's my opinion only, but if I raised up a small problem with someone and they laughed at me and told me the opposite of what I thought was true, I'd start questioning whether they're helping me. If they're not helping me, are they hindering me, and how.

If you keep saying to someone that they're wrong, then everything they do is wrong. That cant feel nice.

If the same problem keeps coming up, then you need to work with this person and ask them to show you how what someone's saying to them is personal. Would they have been rude to anyone, or just them. If it's just them, why would that be. You're going to need to take a bit of a child mentality, because I think that's what you're dealing with.

They could well be building a case for leaving and justifying it to themselves, then to you. Bullying would be somewhere near the list.

If you dont have the skills for this, you're better off pulling in people who do. Work with this woman and if needs be through HR as well, but I think you need to show you're bothered about helping sort the problem more than you have been doing, even if you're not.

Part of that might be to start recording calls with agreement from HR/the person and set aside half an hour on a Friday to go through some highlights and lowlights

Edited by andy-xr on Thursday 23 July 13:41
Sorry, I should have made it clearer that my laughing was in a "this is lighthearted / not serious" way rather than a "oh, you're so silly" way. Ultimately I want to help her. She's very good at many other aspects of the role, so it's my best interests to get the edges rounded off.

I've contacted HR this afternoon so I'll have to see what they come back with, although it can take weeks sometimes.

PurpleTurtle

6,940 posts

143 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
quotequote all
OP, having read your updates, it's basically that she's a thick gobby bint with an attitude problem, isn't it? Good luck solving that one.

My mate does a lot of hiring and, occasionally, firing. His normal approach to dealing with this scenario is:

1) Give an appraisal
2) Provide positive feedback, but also highlight areas of weekness that need improvement
3) Put them on a PIP (Personal Improvement Plan) with regular monitoring/feedback. Involve HR to make sure all doen above board.
4) This will involve them either upping their game (a win/win) or quietly Foxtrot Oscar'ing, problem solved.

Mrs PurpleTurtle had similar issues with a bloke who works for her, complicated by him (supposedly) having a 'diagnosed personality disorder' amongst myriad other complaints, largely manufactured to get him out of any hard graft. After one too many nights of her coming home crying due to stress and me wanting to punch the bloke's lights out I suggested the above approach and, him finally seeing the writing was on the wall that he was being tippy-toe'd down the road to dismissal, resulted in a complete change in attitude and he is now a productive, hassle-free employee. Their relationship has improved - deep down I think he knew he was taking the piss and needed the subtle threat of his P45 to refocus his mind.

Maternity returnee you say? Does she do hours to suit her? Might be worth politely reminding her that cushy numbers like that aren't so easy to come by.

romeogolf

Original Poster:

2,056 posts

118 months

Friday 24th July 2015
quotequote all
PurpleTurtle said:
OP, having read your updates, it's basically that she's a thick gobby bint with an attitude problem, isn't it? Good luck solving that one.

My mate does a lot of hiring and, occasionally, firing. His normal approach to dealing with this scenario is:

1) Give an appraisal
2) Provide positive feedback, but also highlight areas of weekness that need improvement
3) Put them on a PIP (Personal Improvement Plan) with regular monitoring/feedback. Involve HR to make sure all doen above board.
4) This will involve them either upping their game (a win/win) or quietly Foxtrot Oscar'ing, problem solved.

Mrs PurpleTurtle had similar issues with a bloke who works for her, complicated by him (supposedly) having a 'diagnosed personality disorder' amongst myriad other complaints, largely manufactured to get him out of any hard graft. After one too many nights of her coming home crying due to stress and me wanting to punch the bloke's lights out I suggested the above approach and, him finally seeing the writing was on the wall that he was being tippy-toe'd down the road to dismissal, resulted in a complete change in attitude and he is now a productive, hassle-free employee. Their relationship has improved - deep down I think he knew he was taking the piss and needed the subtle threat of his P45 to refocus his mind.

Maternity returnee you say? Does she do hours to suit her? Might be worth politely reminding her that cushy numbers like that aren't so easy to come by.
You're not far wrong to be honest. Will discuss PIP options with HR in a scheduled call today.

As for her working hours, she's full-time. She requested flexible hours but it was declined in her current role. She was offered part-time work in another role but declined it to return full-time (hence the accusation of bullying; Although this decision didn't involve me, it was HR/senior management).

conanius

741 posts

197 months

Sunday 26th July 2015
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So, everyone deals with things differently, but here is my 2 pence.

Have you had the conversation, where you sit down, somewhere appropriate - so, NOT a meeting room that isn't surrounded by glass in the middle of the office or the Staff Canteen/coffee bar - and talked honestly with her? Doing this at the desk doesn't work, and no matter how hard, you can not laugh/mock her position. You must be professional.

If she has just had a baby, do you know how its going at home etc?

Everyone has a life outside of work, and whilst I don't think this is _everything_ You've only mentioned once about her having maternity leave and returning, and by the sounds of it, not returning under the hours she'd hoped to do. I would imagine she feels she's on the defensive, and your director pal who recruited her must have seen something before all this occurred.

I wonder if she is stressed out by the return to work and leaving her child, and a byproduct of that is, everyone is out to get her - in her mind.

I've had some incredible conversations with staff when I've noticed performance dipping, only to find out a loved one is ill/their kids are playing up massively/whatever. Empathising with this and working how the office can try to assist them being empowered to make things better is important. My whole post will now sound like mgmt nonsense and waffle, but the key bit is, the employee owns their performance, you as a manager just give them the tools to ensure its appropriate.

Whilst we must be professional and strive to sepearate our work lives with our home lives, in reality, for many, this is a very difficult thing to do. Again, this to me sounds like part of the problem.

If I was in your position, and with this limited information I would:

- Book a meeting with her - in calendars on outlook/whatever you use - in a proper meeting room to discuss performance as part of her yearly appraisal.Have a brief agenda that is shared as part of this invite. If you are concerned how this will look, book them with all of your team. I do this anyway all the time, so it makes managing performance issues far easier.
- In this meeting, start off with 'how are things' try to get her relaxed, get her talking about her LIFE not her JOB to see what is offered up initially.Then move onto work. I always start my 1-2-1's finding out the latest on the issues in their life. They are important humans, not just a number on your job list.
- Start to discuss her performance. Ask how she thinks the return has gone, how she is adjusting to the work life balance following maternity leave, how she is finding the role.
- Express your concerns that it seems like she's had some challenging conversations with colleagues and customers, and you want to understand the situation in more detail. That isn't 'you are crap' that is very much 'help me understand what is going on'.
- When you get this detail, I wouldn't be hugely surprised if she hasn't met some of these people face to face. You'd be amazed how much tension exists for no reason on the phone with someone who you have never met. It sounds like her telephone manner isn't great (Do you have access to internal training, some sort of 'difficult conversations' training course?)
- Explain that, from your perspective, you want to ensure that she is empowered to have a suitable working environment, and that you want to help her explore how she can improve this - SHE NEEDS TO OWN MAKING THIS BETTER.
- As part of that, suggest getting some 360 feedback from these people to get their perspective on how she performs. I do this all the time anyway (and purposely with people I don't have a good working relationship with) so if you do it already, brilliant.
- Schedule a follow up meeting in a months time - agree it in this meeting - to discuss the feedback.
- Say that, when this next happens, you'd like to walk through the situation with her, again in a 'safe space' so book a room.Doesnt need to wait for the next meeting. Document this meeting.
- Write up this initial meeting, sharing the notes saying she can amend if any misunderstanding in how it went.

Now you have a base to work from.

This is obviously just a 60 second post on a web forum, theres a lot more to this.


davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Sunday 26th July 2015
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And if after that (which is absolutely the right thing to do) you confirm that she's just not suited for the role, you need to work out what you can do.

It sounds like you'll have trouble managing her out of the business off your own back given her relationship (whatever it is) with the Director. So you need to change that relationship with the director.

Do you work with any accounts which that director deals with closely enough for him to have good relationships with higher-ups at that company? If you do, put her on those. If she's as bad as you say you should get some complaints at the other end, which will hopefully get back to your director before too long.

If you can get him questioning her abilities then you'll have a much easier time making any decisions later on.

esxste

3,665 posts

105 months

Tuesday 28th July 2015
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Get a headset that'll let you listen in on calls; do a group training excercise where each of the 4 team members take turns listening in on others calls, and provide honest feedback after.

It might help her by getting others perspective on the same call, and her hearing how customers talk to her colleagues and yet isn't "picking" on her - undoubtedly the others would benefit also.



andy-xr

13,204 posts

203 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
quotequote all
davepoth said:
And if after that (which is absolutely the right thing to do) you confirm that she's just not suited for the role, you need to work out what you can do.
I think that kind of end game can become a target, rather than an option. Self fulfilling prophecy if you will. You'll get to a point where you've justified that you've got grounds to sack her, whereas you've also justified that you've got grounds to making things work better

davepoth said:
It sounds like you'll have trouble managing her out of the business off your own back given her relationship (whatever it is) with the Director. So you need to change that relationship with the director.
That'll just be a nose/face knife interface, one person comes out of it worse off, the person without a nose and a bloody mess on their face.


untakenname

4,953 posts

191 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
quotequote all
If she's annoying every she converses with then why don't you get them to put in a complaint about her? If she gets dozens of complaints then it's clear who the problem is.

bakerstreet

4,755 posts

164 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
quotequote all
romeogolf said:
Standard scenario just occurred.


I didn't reply at the further.
IMO that was maybe a mistake. You have to be seen as assertive and the one in charge an not replying doesn't enforce that.I haven't done ant courses, but this is just based my own experience managing aggressive and difficult people. Please don't take this as a personal attack.

Do you think she is in the right role for her skill set and personality? I have managed some fairly aggressive people and despite being difficult and occasionally rude, they have actually been quite good at their job and on occasion have had roles changed to suit them.