Amazing web / iOS / Android developer needed!

Amazing web / iOS / Android developer needed!

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MitchT

Original Poster:

15,788 posts

208 months

Saturday 15th August 2015
quotequote all
The OH and I are looking for an amazing developer who can build a website as well as complementary iOS and Android apps.

The criteria we have is as follows:
  • Preferably within a reasonable radius of Bradford/Leeds so it's easy to meet up.
  • Must be able to take the project on an 'entrepreneurial' basis - i.e., we have no money so we can't pay you - instead you'll get a percentage of the business.
  • Must be willing to sign a non disclosure agreement, basically promising not to reveal the idea to anyone else or run off and do it yourself.
  • Must be able to provide a portfolio demonstrating the required level of competence.
  • Must be hungry for it - we want to get started asap and need someone who's committed.
I can't reveal any more at this stage. If you have the skills to develop the 'next Facebook', please get in touch!

KFC

3,687 posts

129 months

Sunday 16th August 2015
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So you're looking for someone with amazing skills, experience, near you location wise and willing to work for free laugh


This is the sort of area I work in, developing things online. Every single proposal I've seen like this in the past has been an utter waste of time. The chance of you getting someone good to do it, is near non existent.

I would concentrate your efforts on sourcing the funds to pay for it. Or lower your expectations. Someone doing programming at university may be willing to do it to use in their CV once the project is launched / they've graduated.

If you do want to persist with the current approach then you're going to need to provide more info I think. If you'd emailed me that I'd just have deleted it as its too much hassle to deal with the NDA side of things before you tell me something that has a 90%+ chance of being absolute nonsense. At the very least you should be giving people a time line of how long you expect them to work for free / how many hours of work you want from them. If its 5 hours of work a week for 6 months someone might be willing to take that 'lottery ticket' chance of winning on this. If its a full time gig for a year... then I already know mortgage payments and feeding the family etc would preclude me from even considering it.

Edited by KFC on Sunday 16th August 21:36

trashbat

6,005 posts

152 months

Sunday 16th August 2015
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"The next Facebook" is neither a good incentive, nor likely to happen.

At least if you want to do something interesting, the job you describe is more likely two jobs, one graphic designer/creative and one software engineer.

Both get paid pretty well (I am the latter), work is not hard to come by, and without a very attractive proposition and strong business case, and probably a very strong trust relationship (i.e. a personal one) you're unlikely to have much interest.

The more typical startup model is that you get VC funding from a very early stage, and can actually pay people, maybe a reduced amount complemented by a stakeholder arrangement. But working for free on a speculative basis is a nonsense commonly employed by chancers who aren't competent/prospectively successful enough to summon up that capital, or worse, who are explicitly trying to rip off their contributors.

Edited by trashbat on Sunday 16th August 21:45

Blaster72

10,772 posts

196 months

Sunday 16th August 2015
quotequote all
As soon as I saw free, I knew you'd be doomed.

If its good enough to be the next Facebook then its good enough for you to get the funds to pay someone either from investors or loans or sell a kidney, whatever.

If you don't want to put your own money into paying an App developer alarm bells are already ringing. Sounds like you're not sure it'll go anywhere.

Sorry but unless you have a talented young family member or friend willing to do you a favour then you are going to struggle to get anyone to do this for you.

MitchT

Original Poster:

15,788 posts

208 months

Sunday 16th August 2015
quotequote all
@KFC - It's not 'for free'. It's for a percentage of the business. the developer would be a director and would own shares. We can't provide much information without risking giving too much away. If you're interested get in touch and I'll pass your details to my OH who owns the project and is a better judge of how much can be revealed without giving key information away.

trashbat said:
"The next Facebook" is neither a good incentive, nor likely to happen.
By 'the next Facebook', I don't literally mean it's another Facebook, more something that could be as big, but different.

trashbat said:
At least if you want to do something interesting, the job you describe is more likely two jobs, one graphic designer/creative and one software engineer.
It's actually three jobs - Marketing expert (the OH), Designer (me), and a Developer.

trashbat said:
Both get paid pretty well (I am the latter), work is not hard to come by, and without a very attractive proposition and strong business case, and probably a very strong trust relationship (i.e. a personal one) you're unlikely to have much interest.
Where is graphic design paid well? I've been doing it for over 20 years. The pay is st.

KFC

3,687 posts

129 months

Sunday 16th August 2015
quotequote all
MitchT said:
@KFC - It's not 'for free'. It's for a percentage of the business. the developer would be a director and would own shares. We can't provide much information without risking giving too much away. If you're interested get in touch and I'll pass your details to my OH who owns the project and is a better judge of how much can be revealed without giving key information away.
I wouldn't be interested personally... from what info I have already it appears to be doomed. It is "free" if the project fails.

You would give people some info on what is expected of them time wise (both hours per week & duration) without giving away project specific things.

MitchT

Original Poster:

15,788 posts

208 months

Sunday 16th August 2015
quotequote all
We want someone who has a vested interest in the project. We'll keep looking elsewhere. Thanks for the input.

Blaster72

10,772 posts

196 months

Sunday 16th August 2015
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Good luck Mitch, I hope it works out for you both. At the very least it'll be an interesting journey.

There's a nice little article on ZDNet that's worth a read

http://www.zdnet.com/article/so-you-have-an-app-id...

trashbat

6,005 posts

152 months

Monday 17th August 2015
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MitchT said:
By 'the next Facebook', I don't literally mean it's another Facebook, more something that could be as big, but different.
This is what I mean. Lots of people in tech come up with hype like this, but FB has over a billion users and a market cap of $260bn. It's a worthless phrase.

MitchT said:
It's actually three jobs - Marketing expert (the OH), Designer (me), and a Developer.
My point is that someone who can build you an excellent website or get your app looking really slick is not necessarily the same person and skill set as one who can produce a system design and architecture, implement and then maintain a workable, complex app proposition. There is overlap but they are different: one is creative with an element of technical, and the other is engineering.

MitchT said:
Where is graphic design paid well? I've been doing it for over 20 years. The pay is st.
I know plenty that seem to do well. Corporate marketing, web design, engineering UX experts and designers, etc.

egomeister

6,698 posts

262 months

Monday 17th August 2015
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Blaster72 said:
If its good enough to be the next Facebook then its good enough for you to get the funds to pay someone either from investors or loans or sell a kidney, whatever.
What he said. If it's a genuinely good idea, you should be able to find someone to back it (or buy bodyparts..) What sort of investment would be required if you were to hire your developer?

Unfortunately the first thing I thought of when i read this topic was this: http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p2.html





944fan

4,962 posts

184 months

Monday 17th August 2015
quotequote all
KFC said:
MitchT said:
@KFC - It's not 'for free'. It's for a percentage of the business. the developer would be a director and would own shares. We can't provide much information without risking giving too much away. If you're interested get in touch and I'll pass your details to my OH who owns the project and is a better judge of how much can be revealed without giving key information away.
I wouldn't be interested personally... from what info I have already it appears to be doomed. It is "free" if the project fails.

You would give people some info on what is expected of them time wise (both hours per week & duration) without giving away project specific things.
I agree with KFC. Its a free piece of work with a promise of jam tomorrow. Perhaps if you explained the project to someone they might really believe in it and want to join you but you are expecting a huge leap of faith from someone. Decent developers are in high demand and get paid a lot. I assume you have no history of previously making pots of cash from business ventures so look at it from a developers point of view. Over here I have a guaranteed job paying £60+K per year + bens, versus a start up company with 2 people looking for an amazing app to be developed and I might make some money in the future.

Even if you give them shares how are they going to make money? What's the goal of the app, get a huge user base and then sell? Or try and make profit.

Not trying to st on your idea or plans but I think you expecting too much.

SwissJonese

1,393 posts

174 months

Monday 17th August 2015
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Making Proper apps for all devices e.g. IOS, Android and Windows phone - don't forget about the 3% of users ;-) is highly time consuming.
Majority of startups write a nice web page which can be optimized for mobile browsers. If the web version is successful then outsource and get someone/or company to write you the associated apps.

Also look at something like Xamarin which allows you to build the business logic in one language and use the Xamarin framework to build apps that are tailored specifically for each client.

IainT

10,040 posts

237 months

Monday 17th August 2015
quotequote all
If it's a great idea and you're genuinely convinced it will be a success then why give away a share in your idea to create the product? Get funding and have the conviction it'll be huge.

If all you have is an idea, domain and snazzy logo then you've not got nothing but you're right next to it with thousands of other start-ups.

KFC

3,687 posts

129 months

Monday 17th August 2015
quotequote all
MitchT said:
We want someone who has a vested interest in the project. We'll keep looking elsewhere. Thanks for the input.
A vested interest should be a bonus scheme on top of wages... not a "you can't pay your rent or feed yourself" scenario. If you want to go with that approach then you really need to be more realistic about who can do it. A 17 year old kid living with his parents can do it. Someone currently studying at uni could do it. This amazing developer with skills and a nice portfolio... do you think he's going to live on fresh air till next year?


I think the people who have the skills/portfolio you want, are likely going to have made their mind up before you even tell them the idea. If you don't trust in your own idea to succeed then imo they'd need to be utterly bonkers to gamble their wages on it.

dudleybloke

19,717 posts

185 months

Monday 17th August 2015
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beeej

1,400 posts

192 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
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MitchT said:
I can't reveal any more at this stage. If you have the skills to develop the 'next Facebook', please get in touch!
Hello, I've got a game on the Android marketplace. Your expectations are a bit... whack. Get a bank loan and hire someone, if you're so bleeding confident smilebiggrin

PS: ruminate over this: https://sivers.org/multiply



jammy_basturd

29,775 posts

211 months

Friday 28th August 2015
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Probably won't get read as the OP seems to have already decided to ignore the advice given so far. But I fit your chosen criteria, web apps are more forte, which require a slightly different set of skills to your more run-of-the-mill, everyday website designer/coder.

Anyway, I get asked on a monthly basis to get involved in a project where by "it's a great idea, I've had loads of people say they'd pay for it, it's practically a sure thing, but we have no start up money so we'd like to offer you shares". This puts 100% of the risk on the developer. As has already been said, there is plenty of web development work, good and experienced web developers are never out of projects, we do not have to do work for free on the promise of a potential payday in the future.

Lastly, ideas are ten-a-penny, they are cheap and practically worthless:

MitchT

Original Poster:

15,788 posts

208 months

Saturday 29th August 2015
quotequote all
jammy_basturd said:
Probably won't get read as the OP seems to have already decided to ignore the advice given so far.
I gave up on the thread because people seem fixated on the idea that we want someone to work for nothing and end up with no money to pay for food and shelter as a consequence. The OH and I appreciate the need food and shelter as we need it too - that's why we have day jobs and are undertaking the project in our spare time. We were simply looking for someone who was willing to become one third of the project and work on it in spare time too. The OH and I are not 'powerfully built company directors' looking to exploit someone - we're all giving up our spare time for an equal share of the reward. Anyway, we identified a very talented developer via another channel. He has all the required skills and is happy to own a third of the business rather than than charge a fee, so it's underway now.

jammy_basturd said:
This puts 100% of the risk on the developer.
No it doesn't. We're all taking a risk in so much as we're giving up our spare time to see if we can make something work. None of us are short of the ability to find 'paying by the hour' work in our spare time if we so wish, but we want something bigger. As Mark Twain said, “Why not go out on a limb? That's where the fruit is.”

If we pull it off I'll bump the thread and report back, but otherwise I won't be checking back in as our time is obviously better spent on the project.

KFC

3,687 posts

129 months

Saturday 29th August 2015
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So you just threw away a third of the 'next Facebook' before you even started, and you wonder why nobody is taking you seriously laugh

trashbat

6,005 posts

152 months

Saturday 29th August 2015
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Now that you've notionally found someone, the challenge will be that for them it will play distinctly second fiddle to pretty much everything else - jam tomorrow doesn't feed you today after all - and once the novelty motivator wears off, you might find this becomes a major problem. If doubt and unavailability sets in a few months into this project and they're not running with it as you'd hoped, what are you going to do about the fact that they own a third of the half baked creation?