Potential notice of redundancy being issued tomorrow.
Discussion
I might be getting the wrong end of the stick here but I (along with a number of others) have to attend a meeting with senior management tomorrow and two reps from HR. I havn't been told what the meeting is about but it doesn't take a genius to have an idea.
Bit of background:
I work for a large bank in the City in the IT department. Specifically in the QA / Test Analyst role. I have been doing this role for one year. Other people attending the meeting are Java Developers. Over the last few months we have been getting even busier. So much so that we are getting people from an external company based in Bangalore to assist with the development and testing. We were specifically told that they would work with us and not replace us.
So this afternoon I received this invite along with the other 3 testers, and 4 developers and our line managers, and of course HR.
I am pretty certain I know what is happening but from a legal view is this right? I.e someone being effectively replaced by a outside contractor that is cheaper. The roles would be identical.
It doesn't seen morally or ethically right to me, but considering we are dealing with a bank in the city of london morals or ethics don't really come into it.
Feeling pretty fed up tonight, i really enjoy the role and the people I work with.
I really hope I am over-reacting, but I suspect not.
EDIT: I have actually been with the company since 2002, I applied for the IT role just over a year ago from another department, if that makes any difference.
Bit of background:
I work for a large bank in the City in the IT department. Specifically in the QA / Test Analyst role. I have been doing this role for one year. Other people attending the meeting are Java Developers. Over the last few months we have been getting even busier. So much so that we are getting people from an external company based in Bangalore to assist with the development and testing. We were specifically told that they would work with us and not replace us.
So this afternoon I received this invite along with the other 3 testers, and 4 developers and our line managers, and of course HR.
I am pretty certain I know what is happening but from a legal view is this right? I.e someone being effectively replaced by a outside contractor that is cheaper. The roles would be identical.
It doesn't seen morally or ethically right to me, but considering we are dealing with a bank in the city of london morals or ethics don't really come into it.
Feeling pretty fed up tonight, i really enjoy the role and the people I work with.
I really hope I am over-reacting, but I suspect not.
EDIT: I have actually been with the company since 2002, I applied for the IT role just over a year ago from another department, if that makes any difference.
Edited by eric twinge on Tuesday 13th October 19:17
Roll with it, yes it is s
t if that is what happens though many have been three before and many will follow after. Given your time there you may not receive anything so go along and listen, you have no rights so take what you can and approach new challenges with a positive mind, it is not you that is the issue rather the overall business model. In Serco it was called, 'Sack everyone relocate company overseas, it is happening everywhere.
The other way to view it is that you will write the specifications and they will deliver the outputs, you could become a quality team rather than delivery and HR are there to govern the response. The st only hits the fan when you hear it first hand, sounds like you are worrying about change a little too soon, prove me wrong.
t if that is what happens though many have been three before and many will follow after. Given your time there you may not receive anything so go along and listen, you have no rights so take what you can and approach new challenges with a positive mind, it is not you that is the issue rather the overall business model. In Serco it was called, 'Sack everyone relocate company overseas, it is happening everywhere.The other way to view it is that you will write the specifications and they will deliver the outputs, you could become a quality team rather than delivery and HR are there to govern the response. The s
t only hits the fan when you hear it first hand, sounds like you are worrying about change a little too soon, prove me wrong.Edited by softtop on Tuesday 13th October 19:09
softtop said:
The other way to view it is that you will write the specifications and they will deliver the outputs, you could become a quality team rather than delivery and HR are there to govern the response. The st only hits the fan when you hear it first hand, sounds like you are worrying about change a little too soon, prove me wrong.
Thanks, that makes a little bit of sense in that my manager was asking for our job mandates a while ago, and I know he attended a meeting to discuss three new job mandates in the uk. Possibly perhaps.t only hits the fan when you hear it first hand, sounds like you are worrying about change a little too soon, prove me wrong.Edited by softtop on Tuesday 13th October 19:09
As expected, unless I apply for a new role and get it within the company we are out of the door June 2016.
What annoys me is that we were told that the ‘contractors’ would be working with us and not replacing us. I suppose that is my fault for actually believing it.
Well, I’m not the worst and won’t be the last, so perhaps I should take the money and run, but it is a real shame as I really enjoy what I do and actually look forward to coming into work as well.
What annoys me is that we were told that the ‘contractors’ would be working with us and not replacing us. I suppose that is my fault for actually believing it.
Well, I’m not the worst and won’t be the last, so perhaps I should take the money and run, but it is a real shame as I really enjoy what I do and actually look forward to coming into work as well.
eric twinge said:
As expected, unless I apply for a new role and get it within the company we are out of the door June 2016.
What annoys me is that we were told that the ‘contractors’ would be working with us and not replacing us. I suppose that is my fault for actually believing it.
Well, I’m not the worst and won’t be the last, so perhaps I should take the money and run, but it is a real shame as I really enjoy what I do and actually look forward to coming into work as well.
Give me a PM, for you and your developers I have a company that might be interested in you and means you can all fWhat annoys me is that we were told that the ‘contractors’ would be working with us and not replacing us. I suppose that is my fault for actually believing it.
Well, I’m not the worst and won’t be the last, so perhaps I should take the money and run, but it is a real shame as I really enjoy what I do and actually look forward to coming into work as well.
k off the bank by resigning on mass.Financial consultancy in London.
(I only work there but its good working environment and they are always b
hing at staff to find more experienced people)eric twinge said:
I might be getting the wrong end of the stick here but I (along with a number of others) have to attend a meeting with senior management tomorrow and two reps from HR. I havn't been told what the meeting is about but it doesn't take a genius to have an idea.
Bit of background:
I work for a large bank in the City in the IT department. Specifically in the QA / Test Analyst role. I have been doing this role for one year. Other people attending the meeting are Java Developers. Over the last few months we have been getting even busier. So much so that we are getting people from an external company based in Bangalore to assist with the development and testing. We were specifically told that they would work with us and not replace us.
So this afternoon I received this invite along with the other 3 testers, and 4 developers and our line managers, and of course HR.
I am pretty certain I know what is happening but from a legal view is this right? I.e someone being effectively replaced by a outside contractor that is cheaper. The roles would be identical.
It doesn't seen morally or ethically right to me, but considering we are dealing with a bank in the city of london morals or ethics don't really come into it.
Feeling pretty fed up tonight, i really enjoy the role and the people I work with.
I really hope I am over-reacting, but I suspect not.
EDIT: I have actually been with the company since 2002, I applied for the IT role just over a year ago from another department, if that makes any difference.
Sounds like your job is being offshored.Bit of background:
I work for a large bank in the City in the IT department. Specifically in the QA / Test Analyst role. I have been doing this role for one year. Other people attending the meeting are Java Developers. Over the last few months we have been getting even busier. So much so that we are getting people from an external company based in Bangalore to assist with the development and testing. We were specifically told that they would work with us and not replace us.
So this afternoon I received this invite along with the other 3 testers, and 4 developers and our line managers, and of course HR.
I am pretty certain I know what is happening but from a legal view is this right? I.e someone being effectively replaced by a outside contractor that is cheaper. The roles would be identical.
It doesn't seen morally or ethically right to me, but considering we are dealing with a bank in the city of london morals or ethics don't really come into it.
Feeling pretty fed up tonight, i really enjoy the role and the people I work with.
I really hope I am over-reacting, but I suspect not.
EDIT: I have actually been with the company since 2002, I applied for the IT role just over a year ago from another department, if that makes any difference.
Edited by eric twinge on Tuesday 13th October 19:17
I am a techie freelance contractor, have gone through this pain four years ago, but the client decided to retain a few of us as 'Subject Matter Experts' during the transition. We are still there.
Your bank will be on the receiving end of a lot of bulls
t, lots of slopy shoulders denial of responsibility, 'experts' who know nothing other than to ask people to 'please do the needful' and it will all fall over in a dreadful heap. If there are openings in your field I would advise you to look for something else, if the shove comes. It is really painful working with them, especially as you, like me, really enjoy your job and hate seeing it being done badly by somebody else. I only stick with it due to very limited openings in my field, but if I was you I would use it as a springboard to other, better, opportunities if they are available.
Many institutions have done the Offshoring thing, realised the promised returns are poor for the (alleged) cost-savings and are bringing it back. Unfortunately for you, somebody higher up the food-chain will be being bonused on making this appear to be viable on paper.
I fear you are about to become very familiar with the expression 'Knowledge Transfer'. My advice: give nothing away, only respond to a direct question on a specific subject, never elaborate.
Edited by PurpleTurtle on Wednesday 14th October 12:23
I will also add that you will get all the blame when off shore doesnt perform and your team will end up 'fixing' or band aiding the crap they send across as fully tested.
When they don't meet the deadlines the offshore team will blame your team and management will believe you are the bottle neck in the process.
Also watch out for the offshore team following the specs provided to the letter and I mean to the letter, if there is anything that needs to be thought about or needs them to use initiative and is not in the spec (be it a certain amount of knowledge of the system is expected so its not included), you will not be delivered it and they will blame you for not telling them or basically spoon feeding them the info.
When they don't meet the deadlines the offshore team will blame your team and management will believe you are the bottle neck in the process.
Also watch out for the offshore team following the specs provided to the letter and I mean to the letter, if there is anything that needs to be thought about or needs them to use initiative and is not in the spec (be it a certain amount of knowledge of the system is expected so its not included), you will not be delivered it and they will blame you for not telling them or basically spoon feeding them the info.
PurpleTurtle said:
Your bank will be on the receiving end of a lot of bullst, lots of slopy shoulders denial of responsibility, 'experts' who know nothing other than to ask people to 'please do the needful' and it will all fall over in a dreadful heap.
This. It is quite eye-opening. t, lots of slopy shoulders denial of responsibility, 'experts' who know nothing other than to ask people to 'please do the needful' and it will all fall over in a dreadful heap. Good luck OP, make use of your mix of business and IT knowledge and hopefully you will land a better role.
Who knows, you may even get involved in sorting out one of the dreadful heaps that, as PurpleTurtle says, these 'plans' inevitably lead to.
Good luck. On the upside, look at where you are, possible fork in the road. It sounds like you dont feel all that motivated to work and see that the company does well while this is hanging around. If it is redundancy, it's sometimes a good opportunity to get a clean start with a bit of cash behind you. If you've been there since 02, you'll do OK on a settlement and it'd give you the chance to look openly at other options.
A lot of the time there's nowt you can do about it, it's way beyond your role so you just kind of have to accept your fate whatever it might be.
If I was faced with the option of hanging out til they made me redundant or leaving now with not a lot lined up, I'd stick around for the payout and the reference
A lot of the time there's nowt you can do about it, it's way beyond your role so you just kind of have to accept your fate whatever it might be.
If I was faced with the option of hanging out til they made me redundant or leaving now with not a lot lined up, I'd stick around for the payout and the reference
The upside is you have a reasonably long lead time to plan. The other upside is that your length of service will help in increasing your payout whether it is statutory or an enhanced calculation basis. You want to try to get these in writing sooner rather than later. The potential downside is that you have a short tenure in your role. You may also want to open discussions about an agreed leaving period when you can start a new role yet still collect your redundancy payment ahead of the actual date. Depending on your position/experience/value you may want to consider discussing some form of retention/completion bonus. Obviously this will tie you in.
eric twinge said:
As expected, unless I apply for a new role and get it within the company we are out of the door June 2016.
What annoys me is that we were told that the ‘contractors’ would be working with us and not replacing us. I suppose that is my fault for actually believing it.
Well, I’m not the worst and won’t be the last, so perhaps I should take the money and run, but it is a real shame as I really enjoy what I do and actually look forward to coming into work as well.
OP you are probably, and quite rightly, feeling fairly p!ssed about this right now.What annoys me is that we were told that the ‘contractors’ would be working with us and not replacing us. I suppose that is my fault for actually believing it.
Well, I’m not the worst and won’t be the last, so perhaps I should take the money and run, but it is a real shame as I really enjoy what I do and actually look forward to coming into work as well.
Looking at it objectively however, you only have one year's experience in the role, and they are giving you a stay of execution for 8 months. That pads out your experience nicer on your CV and, assuming length of overall service is taken into account, you should be able to depart with a decent severance package, more time on the CV, and a good reference, yes?
I have been working with these clowns daily for four years and speak from huge experience. This week I have had to escalate three matters to my boss where these offshore 'experts' do not even have basic program analysis skills. We are not talking in-depth techie knowledge here, but simple, two-weeks-out-of-coding-school ability to read a program sort of stuff. Your bosses might get to realise this in the next few months. Whilst following my earlier advice of not giving too much away to this Offshore lot, also give them plenty of rope to hang themselves.
Many thanks everyone for your advice, you are all speaking a lot of sense and I appreciate it all, I am at work at the moment so I will give a better update tonight but I have my meeting with HR, line manager this afternoon.
I understand in this meeting they will go into more detail about how this affects me, package and also a list of roles that I can apply for.
Is there anything that I should be asking or saying, or indeed not saying? Any words of advice, how should I play it?
On one hand I am gutted as I really have enjoyed the last year or so in this testing / qa role after years of operations.
I suppose I could apply for one of the new roles, but it won’t be what I want to do, but it will pay the mortgage of course.
Or I could take the money in June and look for something nearer to home, I have been commuting from Southampton to London since 2002 and it is starting to take its toll.
I have two young daughters (one disabled) who could do with Dad being around a bit more, so perhaps I could buy that MX5 with the payout and work locally albeit with less salary, but just think of no more 4 hour commutes!
I feel as if the rug has been pulled out from me somewhat, as I am sure everyone who has faced this and will face this in the future. It’s nothing new is it.
I understand in this meeting they will go into more detail about how this affects me, package and also a list of roles that I can apply for.
Is there anything that I should be asking or saying, or indeed not saying? Any words of advice, how should I play it?
On one hand I am gutted as I really have enjoyed the last year or so in this testing / qa role after years of operations.
I suppose I could apply for one of the new roles, but it won’t be what I want to do, but it will pay the mortgage of course.
Or I could take the money in June and look for something nearer to home, I have been commuting from Southampton to London since 2002 and it is starting to take its toll.
I have two young daughters (one disabled) who could do with Dad being around a bit more, so perhaps I could buy that MX5 with the payout and work locally albeit with less salary, but just think of no more 4 hour commutes!
I feel as if the rug has been pulled out from me somewhat, as I am sure everyone who has faced this and will face this in the future. It’s nothing new is it.
Alternatively, as mentioned early don't give up too much info before June and when you get your cheque set up a consultancy business. I suspect you'll already know your first client...with a nice day rate.
My current department off-shored last year, going from 30 people to 6. All the knowledge left the business and what is left is process driven, lonely and not enjoyable.
My current department off-shored last year, going from 30 people to 6. All the knowledge left the business and what is left is process driven, lonely and not enjoyable.
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