A what would you do....

[Rich_W]

Friend of my mums husband worked in Saudi (and Bahrain and Malay) in the early 90s. Mining, not oil.

Made an absolute fortune! Put all 3 of their children through private education in the UK. Retired at 50ish iirc. Kids never hated him and this was before Skype.

You don't appear to even have children yet. Do it! Even if it doesn't work out at least you've got the experience

Edited by Rich_W on Tuesday 3rd November 21:08

[creampuff]

Well, update. Have been at the local job for about a month. It's OK, not good not bad, still plan to jack it in once a suitable oil & gas job comes up locally.. unless:

Unless I go to Saudi. Just got offered the Saudi job which is a good bump up in pay from the local job. Saudi works out to about £11,500/month take home with living expenses on top.

Any ideas? I'm leaning towards just sticking it out in the UK on a lower pay so I'm not away from my wife + 2 kids. However this is betting that the UK oil and gas market will pick up by mid-2016 for it to make financial sense to stick it out in the local job for now.

[GT03ROB]

Ultimately the key questions are the ones nobody can answer for sure.

Will UK O&G pick up? Who knows. Barring a major expansion of the war in Syria encompassing the Gulf, I doubt it.
How will your family react to you being away for months at a time? Only you can judge. The money is irrelevant compared to this.

Also bear in mind the 11.5k/month is probably before tax. Unless you stick it out to April 2017, you have a tax liability on that. Around 7-10% of that will also be severance payments, which are only paid on satisfactory completion.

Its not an easy call but if you are considering going to Saudi it's your wife you need to be talking to, not us lot!

[Carl_Manchester]

creampuff said:

Well, update. Have been at the local job for about a month. It's OK, not good not bad, still plan to jack it in once a suitable oil & gas job comes up locally.. unless:
H
Unless I go to Saudi. Just got offered tghe Saudi job which is a good bump up in pay from the local job. Saudi works out to about £11,500/month take home with living expenses on top.

Any ideas? I'm leaning towards just sticking it out in the UK on a lower pay so I'm not away from my wife + 2 kids. However this is betting that the UK oil and gas market will pick up by mid-2016 for it to make financial sense to stick it out in the local job for now.

Does the take home calculation from Saudi include your uk tax liability ?

Unless the whole family moves to Saudi and you sell your house (assuming you own) Hmrc will charge you uk tax on Saudi earnings to pay for the public services your family uses in uk.

If you are basing the move purely based on money I would not go, it's not enough money for Saudi.

[GT03ROB]

Carl_Manchester said:

Unless the whole family moves to Saudi and you sell your house (assuming you own) Hmrc will charge you uk tax on Saudi earnings to pay for the public services your family uses in uk.

Bull st,

[GP335i]

Is it a rota i.e. 6/2 or residential?

I think I could hack a rota but not residential.

[creampuff]

GT03ROB said:

Also bear in mind the 11.5k/month is probably before tax. Unless you stick it out to April 2017, you have a tax liability on that. Around 7-10% of that will also be severance payments, which are only paid on satisfactory completion.

I've spent more than 183 days outside the UK (holiday with my family) this tax year. So anything I'd earn in Saudi this tax year would be tax free. I could then work anywhere from 6 to 12 months in the 2016-17 in Saudi and pay no UK tax. That's if it even gets declared as not declaring overseas income to HMRC seems to be standard practice for people working overseas - infact I've worked overseas for 7 years in the past, with Brits, and none of them have declared or paid UK tax on their overseas income. But that's a different topic; for my personal situation I could legally make this happen with no UK tax liability this tax year and I could manage my time in Saudi to be at least 6 months so I have no HMRC tax liability next year.

---

To the other question: It is RESIDENTIAL. As such it has quite a poor rotation and I'd be in Saudi 12 weeks followed by 2 weeks paid leave.

Edited by creampuff on Saturday 28th November 15:31

[GT03ROB]

creampuff said:

I've spent more than 183 days outside the UK (holiday with my family) this tax year. So anything I'd earn in Saudi this tax year would be tax free. I could then work anywhere from 6 to 12 months in the 2016-17 in Saudi and pay no UK tax. That's if it even gets declared as not declaring overseas income to HMRC seems to be standard practice for people working overseas - infact I've worked overseas for 7 years in the past, with Brits, and none of them have declared or paid UK tax on their overseas income. But that's a different topic; for my personal situation I could legally make this happen with no UK tax liability this tax year and I could manage my time in Saudi to be at least 6 months so I have no HMRC tax liability next year.

---

To the other question: It is RESIDENTIAL. As such it has quite a poor rotation and I'd be in Saudi 12 weeks followed by 2 weeks paid leave.

Edited by creampuff on Saturday 28th November 15:31

OK, if you've already checked & confirmed your residency status fine, just be careful your residency is clear, don;t rely on the crap spouted on here! Be aware being out of the Uk for more than 6 months in one tax year does not automatically establish non-residency.

12/2 for Saudi is pretty much the norm. Will you be in the Eastern province? If so you will be able to break this up by flying the family into Bahrain for long weekends & meeting up there.

[creampuff]

GT03ROB said:

12/2 for Saudi is pretty much the norm. Will you be in the Eastern province? If so you will be able to break this up by flying the family into Bahrain for long weekends & meeting up there.

This is a topic of current discussion with my wife, I'm not basing my decision on what I read on here

The job is in Al-Khobar.

I don't think that would work to fly my family out as it would be 3 x airfares so the cost adds up. I'd be more inclined to ask if I can take a week unpaid mid-way in the 12 week on-duty cycle and go to the UK for that week. Have you had any experience with people taking unpaid leave in addition to their paid leave in Saudi? Anyone?

Does anybody have any info on Saudi exit visas? I'm also uncomfortable with the idea that I don't have the nuclear option of just going to the airport and leaving if things turned pear shaped for any reason.

The other thing I am thinking, aside from the cash and aside from the separation from my family if I go, is my career. It is actually quite a good job in Saudi, other than the location. I had 3 months unemployed recently and I really decided anything other than oil and gas is a waste of my time in the long term: other industries seem very reluctant to hire anybody with an O&G background and if they do then they only pay between one-third and two-thirds as much (i.e. my current job in the UK which is not in O&G and which I took once I got laid off from O&G). So, I've realised that oil and gas has been very good to me for almost two decades. My concern is that if things do not pick up in 2016 but they do pick up in 2017, then I would by that time have had 1.5 years outside the oil and gas industry. This may be an issue, it may not be an issue. Like the future direction of the oil price, I don't know. On that basis, for career reasons, I should go to Saudi even though to be honest on the balance of everything I don't really want to go.

Edited by creampuff on Saturday 28th November 18:17

[GT03ROB]

creampuff said:

I don't think that would work to fly my family out as it would be 3 x airfares so the cost adds up. I'd be more inclined to ask if I can take a week unpaid mid-way in the 12 week on-duty cycle and go to the UK for that week. Have you had any experience with people taking unpaid leave in addition to their paid leave in Saudi? Anyone?

Does anybody have any info on Saudi exit visas? I'm also uncomfortable with the idea that I don't have the nuclear option of just going to the airport and leaving if things turned pear shaped for any reason.

Edited by creampuff on Saturday 28th November 18:17

Unpaid leave is usually not an issue subject to your managers approval just as it would be in the Uk. I used to take it. I also tend to fly out every 6 weeks even though my though my contract says it's every 3 months. Most companies are flexible.

Regarding visas, if you are with a western EPC contractor they should give you a multi-entry residence visa, so you are free to come & go as you wish.

[creampuff]

^ I thought there were also EXIT visas? i.e. you need a visa to leave the country?

[GT03ROB]

creampuff said:

^ I thought there were also EXIT visas? i.e. you need a visa to leave the country?

Yes & no.

Your employer/sponsor can get a visa that does not require exit visa or one that does. Most western companies will give their western staff residence visas that do not require exit visas. I had one of these so could come & go as I wished.

[creampuff]

^

The accommodation & transport allowance (this is on top of the GBP £11.5k salary) is about US$2,000 per month. Do you think this is sufficient?

If I were to lead a relatively simple life there how much do you think my daily living expenses would be?

Thanks for your help on this thread, btw

[GT03ROB]

creampuff said:

^

The accommodation & transport allowance (this is on top of the GBP £11.5k salary) is about US$2,000 per month. Do you think this is sufficient?

If I were to lead a relatively simple life there how much do you think my daily living expenses would be?

Thanks for your help on this thread, btw

Let me check for you. Immediate view is it doesn't sound enough, but I'm going by Kuwait.

When I was in Saudi I was in Jubail & got car/petrol/accommodation included, on top of this I got a per diem of around 30quid/day. Cost of food & the like is a little more than the UK, but not vast differences.

[SimesJH]

Never ever underestimate how hard it is to be away from your wife and especially young children.

I've been in Abu Dhabi since June on a short-term phase of the project I'm on but have only been able to see my family twice since then. Every single time on Skype, my 4 year-old daughter asks when I'll be coming home and how much she wants me back there.

Yes, I know the experience helps and so does the money, even if it's not tax-free as in my case due to the short duration. Needs must at times, but it doesn't make it any easier.

Think it over incredibly carefully. You've hit the main issue on the head with how tied you are to the position with no sudden ability to just leave. As others have said, though, this is a matter you MUST discuss as a family and you must all be in agreement. It'll be a huge demand on your wife with managing things at home, too. My wife manages our 4 and 13 year-old and works full-time and that's not easy to do. You may have a lot of free time to fill and you both end up envying each other's life.

If you can successfully manage the family thing, then do it as long as the terms are right. I hear a lot about many large LNG jobs landing in 2016 but I'll believe it when I see it. In truth, I'll be amazed if they land and there are so many already out of work (or heading that way) that there will be a lot of people looking for those roles.

Tough times. Good luck with your decision.

[GT03ROB]

GT03ROB said:

creampuff said:

^

The accommodation & transport allowance (this is on top of the GBP £11.5k salary) is about US$2,000 per month. Do you think this is sufficient?

If I were to lead a relatively simple life there how much do you think my daily living expenses would be?

Thanks for your help on this thread, btw

Let me check for you. Immediate view is it doesn't sound enough, but I'm going by Kuwait.

View from our HR guys here (who have Khobar experience) is it's low. You'll manage but it won't be great (their words were "It'll be rough").

[Jasandjules]

Unless the money was extremely good, I would not go.

Time spent with your kids enjoying them is far better than a small sum of cash to spend. I bet they would be happier if you spent a Saturday taking them to park than if you bought them a new toy which was forgotten within an hour.

[GT03ROB]

Jasandjules said:

Unless the money was extremely good, I would not go.

Time spent with your kids enjoying them is far better than a small sum of cash to spend. I bet they would be happier if you spent a Saturday taking them to park than if you bought them a new toy which was forgotten within an hour.

The sums involved are rarely small. By way of example when I work in Saudi I earn about double my UK gross & no tax. So in terms of money in the bank it's a factor of about 3.5 over the UK. Whilst minor my costs are greatly reduced also.

When I work in the UK, I'll leave home at 6am home by 7:30pm. This is interspersed with frequent business trips ranging from day trips to Europe to 1-2 week trips to the US, Mid or Far East, travel frequently being done on weekends. Your domestic life can be seriously compromised being in the UK.

Because of this I find I get more quality time working away than I do in the UK. Since the middle of the year the longest I have gone without seeing my wife is 21 days. Generally it's been 2 weeks. I left the UK last Sunday, my wife is here Friday for 10 days. I fly home Christmas Eve & out again Boxing Day. Even with this it's still far from easy & it's not the same as being together.

It's a balancing act & there is a fine line between it working out & ending in disaster.

[creampuff]

I'm going to have a phone call with the HR dept in Saudi and grill them about T&C then go from there.

At the moment:

Pros for Saudi:
- More cash (this is really the reason I'd be going)
- Oil industry, which is my career and everything else is a distraction
- Job should be relatively easy and low stress (at least for me; I've been doing this a while so I find it low stress) compared to my current UK job which is a higher workload.
- Long term stable job; good in the event that the oil/gas industry does go into a prolonged downturn

Pros for UK:
- Stay with my family. This is a big consideration.

As I also wrote, my current UK job while in a different industry and good in that regard in terms of broadening my experience, the company is a bit Mickey Mouse and I could see the job getting irritating after about 6 months. It's the highest paying non-oil job I've looked at which I'm remotely qualified for, so there is no option to change to a different non-oil job still within the UK either.

Maybe I'm thinking too much; things may pick up in oil/gas in the UK mid-way through next year.

The Saudi job has a 2 month notice period, which may also make it harder to get jobs in the UK because when they want you they usually want you next week.

Edited by creampuff on Sunday 29th November 18:21

[creampuff]

Haven't talked to HR yet but they have suggested in an email that I can live in Bahrain or Saudi and Bahrain is about a 45 min commute.

Is living in Bahrain feasible if you work in Saudi? Does it really take 45 mins or is it longer? Is living in Bahrain any cheaper than living in Al-Khobar? Is long term car rental reasonably priced?