UK employment - notice periods
Discussion
Hi all,
Simple question: how common/reasonable are three month notice periods (in the UK) for non-senior staff, and what are the legal consequences (if any) for not honouring a notice period.
Situation is this. My daughter is currently working in London in a not especially senior role (Graphic Designer on £40k pa or thereabouts). For various reasons that appear largely due to her being an impatient millennial, she's desperate to change jobs, but finding this tricky due to a three month notice period at her current employer.
It's over 20 years since I last worked in the UK but when I did, three month notice periods were all but unheard of outside senior management. At the time, I would have regarded three months as being completely unreasonable and probably ignored it anyway, giving one month only unless I was feeling particularly helpful. Mind you, I would also have expected the same in return, if you see what I mean.
Thus my view is that she should find another job, fit in with whatever their expectations are for a start date and tell her current place to lump it (within reason). She thinks this will cripple her future career choices because the bad reference will follow her around.
Any thoughts on this?
k
Three month notice periods are not now uncommon. If an employee tries to leave without giving full notice, the employer can do various things -
(1) Nothing, just lump it.
(2) Agree to let the employee go early.
(3) Insist that the employee stay and work.
(4) Insist that the employee go on garden leave (if this is provided for in the contract).
(5) Let the employee go early but sue for any financial loss that this causes.
Which of these the employer will do depends on the circumstances. In cases (3) and (4), the employer could in principle obtain injunctions to enforce the notice period (but not to compel work). It might not, however.
In general, a good workplace lesson for your daughter is that a deal is a deal. I note, however, from your own views that you probably won't have taught her that. We seem to be having a mini trend of feckless child, feckless dad threads here.
(1) Nothing, just lump it.
(2) Agree to let the employee go early.
(3) Insist that the employee stay and work.
(4) Insist that the employee go on garden leave (if this is provided for in the contract).
(5) Let the employee go early but sue for any financial loss that this causes.
Which of these the employer will do depends on the circumstances. In cases (3) and (4), the employer could in principle obtain injunctions to enforce the notice period (but not to compel work). It might not, however.
In general, a good workplace lesson for your daughter is that a deal is a deal. I note, however, from your own views that you probably won't have taught her that. We seem to be having a mini trend of feckless child, feckless dad threads here.
Breadvan72 said:
We seem to be having a mini trend of feckless child, feckless dad threads here.
Haha ... actually I think she's being a whole lot less feckless than I ever was.She's determined to honour the agreement, it just seemed an unreasonable period to me (and I'm an employer, but in a wholly different environment). And I've never been afraid to challenge/renegotiate such things.
Interesting that three-month notice periods are now fairly common. I'll have to recalibrate my expectations in that regard.
Your suggestions about dealing with it are largely in line with what I would have expected - and would have done myself back in the day (i.e., negotiating with current employer). That said, the three month period wasn't in her original contract, it was added as a condition of giving her a (small) salary review about six months ago. Probably doesn't change the situation legally, but it's not quite as simple as a term she could have accepted or renegotiated originally.
The issue is more that my daughter won't consider even asking to vary the notice period, which seems odd to me. But that's not an issue for here.
Thanks though.
k
Often what happens in the UK is that during the job application process your daughter will be asked about her notice period. 1-3 months isn't uncommon. But as long as she is clear with the company she is applying to & they are happy to wait 3 months & a fair amount are then she doesn't really have an issue.
As for getting out early, once she has confirmation (in writting) of the job offer she can ask the employer as part of her resignation letter to allow her to cut it short but no guarantees although I have known some people to not work the full notice as the position wasn't senior enough & the hand over didn't take too long.
As for getting out early, once she has confirmation (in writting) of the job offer she can ask the employer as part of her resignation letter to allow her to cut it short but no guarantees although I have known some people to not work the full notice as the position wasn't senior enough & the hand over didn't take too long.
klootzak said:
Hi all,
Simple question: how common/reasonable are three month notice periods (in the UK) for non-senior staff, and what are the legal consequences (if any) for not honouring a notice period.
Situation is this. My daughter is currently working in London in a not especially senior role (Graphic Designer on £40k pa or thereabouts). For various reasons that appear largely due to her being an impatient millennial, she's desperate to change jobs, but finding this tricky due to a three month notice period at her current employer.
It's over 20 years since I last worked in the UK but when I did, three month notice periods were all but unheard of outside senior management. At the time, I would have regarded three months as being completely unreasonable and probably ignored it anyway, giving one month only unless I was feeling particularly helpful. Mind you, I would also have expected the same in return, if you see what I mean.
Thus my view is that she should find another job, fit in with whatever their expectations are for a start date and tell her current place to lump it (within reason). She thinks this will cripple her future career choices because the bad reference will follow her around.
Any thoughts on this?
k
If she still gets the job she goes to with a bad reference from the old place, then it hasnt crippled her at all. If there's other references behind the current place from the last few years, that'd work fine. Simple question: how common/reasonable are three month notice periods (in the UK) for non-senior staff, and what are the legal consequences (if any) for not honouring a notice period.
Situation is this. My daughter is currently working in London in a not especially senior role (Graphic Designer on £40k pa or thereabouts). For various reasons that appear largely due to her being an impatient millennial, she's desperate to change jobs, but finding this tricky due to a three month notice period at her current employer.
It's over 20 years since I last worked in the UK but when I did, three month notice periods were all but unheard of outside senior management. At the time, I would have regarded three months as being completely unreasonable and probably ignored it anyway, giving one month only unless I was feeling particularly helpful. Mind you, I would also have expected the same in return, if you see what I mean.
Thus my view is that she should find another job, fit in with whatever their expectations are for a start date and tell her current place to lump it (within reason). She thinks this will cripple her future career choices because the bad reference will follow her around.
Any thoughts on this?
k
3 months notice in an every day job is a bit excessive, when you know you're changing jobs and clock watching then a month is bad enough, I cant see why an employer would want an unmotivated employee around longer than necessary.
But, for some people rules are rules and they must absolutely at all costs stick to whatever's written on the bit of paper without any other thought.
In her shoes, I'd negotiate for a month
klootzak said:
Interesting that three-month notice periods are now fairly common. I'll have to recalibrate my expectations in that regard.
I am a barely literate monkey who's overall contribution is dubious. I'm on three month notice. My boss was on six (although he negotiated himself out recently).I'm a graphic designer with three months' notice in my contract. I have the philosophy that if these things are so common then any prospective employer will be expecting it. If not it should be reasonably negotiable. After all, why would your current employer want to make you lose an opportunity elsewhere once they know that A: you want to leave, and B: if they cost you said opportunity they're going to be lumbered with someone who's resentful and no longer motivated?
The 3 month notice does have some benefits for the employee
After an initial 2 years service (up to which the employer can effectively kick an employee out for ANY reason) then in the event of dismissal, you have guaranteed 3 months pay (unless it's for gross misconduct) - in the event of redundancy then you also have the 3 months pay (around £6k for us average earners) paid upfront.
If you ask then as long as you not on projects / duties then I can't see why the employer wouldn't allow you cut the notice short to 1 month.
After an initial 2 years service (up to which the employer can effectively kick an employee out for ANY reason) then in the event of dismissal, you have guaranteed 3 months pay (unless it's for gross misconduct) - in the event of redundancy then you also have the 3 months pay (around £6k for us average earners) paid upfront.
If you ask then as long as you not on projects / duties then I can't see why the employer wouldn't allow you cut the notice short to 1 month.
xjay1337 said:
The 3 month notice does have some benefits for the employee
After an initial 2 years service (up to which the employer can effectively kick an employee out for ANY reason) then in the event of dismissal, you have guaranteed 3 months pay (unless it's for gross misconduct) - in the event of redundancy then you also have the 3 months pay (around £6k for us average earners) paid upfront.
If you ask then as long as you not on projects / duties then I can't see why the employer wouldn't allow you cut the notice short to 1 month.
3 months pay for redundancy after 2 years?!After an initial 2 years service (up to which the employer can effectively kick an employee out for ANY reason) then in the event of dismissal, you have guaranteed 3 months pay (unless it's for gross misconduct) - in the event of redundancy then you also have the 3 months pay (around £6k for us average earners) paid upfront.
If you ask then as long as you not on projects / duties then I can't see why the employer wouldn't allow you cut the notice short to 1 month.
You mean more like 2 weeks pay untaxed!
davepoth said:
cat with a hat said:
3 months pay for redundancy after 2 years?!
You mean more like 2 weeks pay untaxed!
No, he was pointing out that in a redundancy situation, someone on 3 months' notice would be due three months' worth of PILON. You mean more like 2 weeks pay untaxed!
xjay1337 said:
cat with a hat said:
3 months pay for redundancy after 2 years?!
You mean more like 2 weeks pay untaxed!
No, statutory redundancy isYou mean more like 2 weeks pay untaxed!
1 week of pay up to £475 (to a certain age) per year of employment.
Then your notice period. Being made redundant doesn't change your notice period.
I would much rather be on 1 months notice. The gain in job security equates to an equal loss in securing a new job. A lot of employers wanted someone yesterday, not in 3 months time.
If you plan on sticking with a company for several years thats fine, but for many people this isnt the case.
Why can't she look for a job and be upfront with any future employer that she has a 3 months notice, worst case is she'll have to work it, best case, she could negotiate it down to something more attractive. I don't know of many roles outside of an urgent-contract-we're-on-fire role that couldn't wait 3 months as worst case.
She could even play it positively - "As I'm valued and in a position of responsibility and immersed in critical projects, I have 3 month notice period...etc etc"
I wouldn't see it as a problem to be honest.
She could even play it positively - "As I'm valued and in a position of responsibility and immersed in critical projects, I have 3 month notice period...etc etc"
I wouldn't see it as a problem to be honest.
Edited by TIGA84 on Wednesday 25th November 16:57
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