Job search fatigue
Discussion
technodup said:
I'd be looking at something different entirely. Marketing is about a point of difference, creativity, being seen etc. So do that. See a job advertised, don't send a CV.
Take yourself to their office, do something creative with your CV, chances are whoever's screening them has seen enough to last a lifetime so drop off a coffee with some details on the cup, a box with a brick in it and the CV, printed on a cardboard Xmas tree, anything that will make sure it's read and actually demonstrates some of the stuff that will no doubt be written on it. Print it on your t-shirt, wear a costume, whatever.
Takes a certain sort of person, and isn't without risk but chances are you'll end up meeting the person who is selecting and have an opportunity to chat. If you don't the receptionist will tell them some weirdo was at the front desk and then they'll look. For me it beats sending CVs away with little hope of anything ever coming back.
Agreed, this has been my thought in the past but I have also seen lots of re agents/people say to keep a CV clear and simple but it dones mean that visually they all look the same. I did consider putting logos on it (similar to LI), in fact I may try that to see what happens. Few roles I have applied for have been direct with an employer so its not always possible/(seems?) a good idea to do something over that.Take yourself to their office, do something creative with your CV, chances are whoever's screening them has seen enough to last a lifetime so drop off a coffee with some details on the cup, a box with a brick in it and the CV, printed on a cardboard Xmas tree, anything that will make sure it's read and actually demonstrates some of the stuff that will no doubt be written on it. Print it on your t-shirt, wear a costume, whatever.
Takes a certain sort of person, and isn't without risk but chances are you'll end up meeting the person who is selecting and have an opportunity to chat. If you don't the receptionist will tell them some weirdo was at the front desk and then they'll look. For me it beats sending CVs away with little hope of anything ever coming back.
Audidodat said:
A strong Linkedin profile and a simple but carefully done personal website, with a showreel of work/achievements/your USPs, would be a great way for a potential employer to easily visualise your approach and potential value from the word go.
Final thing might be take a couple of things from the sales kit bag- don't be afraid to put yourself in front of people and don't let it upset you when people say no. Trying to avoid the no also removes the opportunity for someone to say yes.
I did look into these but again, negative comnents put me off a doing one. Final thing might be take a couple of things from the sales kit bag- don't be afraid to put yourself in front of people and don't let it upset you when people say no. Trying to avoid the no also removes the opportunity for someone to say yes.
What do you mean about putting myself in front of someone? Who? How?
Potential employers. Either by phoning, connecting on things like Linkedin or literally walking through the door. Attempting to get an audience for your 'pitch'.
There are some really good recruiters out there with the right contacts who are capable of doing this for you. Unfortunately there are also an awful lot of very average ones who aren't. If you need to work there's nobody you should rely on more than yourself to promote your abilities and availability.
There are some really good recruiters out there with the right contacts who are capable of doing this for you. Unfortunately there are also an awful lot of very average ones who aren't. If you need to work there's nobody you should rely on more than yourself to promote your abilities and availability.
I've just started my search, funnily enough also in Marketing but in the South and Im more of a digital man. Annoyingly too far away from London to make it practical which is a pain.
My other problem is I earn too much, no seriously the jobs of a similar title rarely pay what Im on.
On previous job hunts Ive found my way into interviews pretty fast, although this time it feels different. 4 or 5 applications and nothing. Not even had many calls from recruiters which is odd because I went through all the job sites and freshened up my profiles.
My other problem is I earn too much, no seriously the jobs of a similar title rarely pay what Im on.
On previous job hunts Ive found my way into interviews pretty fast, although this time it feels different. 4 or 5 applications and nothing. Not even had many calls from recruiters which is odd because I went through all the job sites and freshened up my profiles.
8-P said:
I've just started my search, funnily enough also in Marketing but in the South and Im more of a digital man. Annoyingly too far away from London to make it practical which is a pain.
My other problem is I earn too much, no seriously the jobs of a similar title rarely pay what Im on.
On previous job hunts Ive found my way into interviews pretty fast, although this time it feels different. 4 or 5 applications and nothing. Not even had many calls from recruiters which is odd because I went through all the job sites and freshened up my profiles.
I am in the same boat regarding salary too. Lots of digital jobs out there but lots of applicants too. I don't ever expect a reply from any job I apply for, that's just the way it goes. I don't expect any call from a rec consultant (I get 1 a day) to ever lead to anything. Its best to think this way otherwise it can be quite disheartening. Its like direct marketing at times. You have to plough through the applications and know that in time a small number will respond. My other problem is I earn too much, no seriously the jobs of a similar title rarely pay what Im on.
On previous job hunts Ive found my way into interviews pretty fast, although this time it feels different. 4 or 5 applications and nothing. Not even had many calls from recruiters which is odd because I went through all the job sites and freshened up my profiles.
I'm in the same boat.
Specialist recruiters in your sector will do a decent job, but only really on agency side roles.
If you are looking client-side then it's a case of browsing linkedin and job boards for roles and then applying directly to the company website (often a black hole) or better, find someone senior in hr or the functional role that you are applying to.
Then it's just a numbers game unfortunately and very tedious. Especially the long pauses between applications and any sort of progress.
Specialist recruiters in your sector will do a decent job, but only really on agency side roles.
If you are looking client-side then it's a case of browsing linkedin and job boards for roles and then applying directly to the company website (often a black hole) or better, find someone senior in hr or the functional role that you are applying to.
Then it's just a numbers game unfortunately and very tedious. Especially the long pauses between applications and any sort of progress.
I can sympathise. I've had a run of interviews which have sucked huge amounts of time and effort to little avail.
Best one is a firm I interviewed at in the beginning of January who just phoned up yesterday to offer me the job, provided I can start on the 11th March. No, not a contract job. Permanent.
Those tests are a pain, however, they are indicative of firms which either are ruled by HR (who don't know the difference between an obscure logic problem and a real world one) or nervous techies who don't know how to interview.
Since you are not aiming for a mega-bucks job, I'd suggest you just keep applying until you hit on a firm which doesn't have those hoops to jump through. Bypass the recruitment agents and use sites like emptylemon, jobstheword, hired and anthology. Also Technojobs often has direct employers.
Best one is a firm I interviewed at in the beginning of January who just phoned up yesterday to offer me the job, provided I can start on the 11th March. No, not a contract job. Permanent.
Those tests are a pain, however, they are indicative of firms which either are ruled by HR (who don't know the difference between an obscure logic problem and a real world one) or nervous techies who don't know how to interview.
Since you are not aiming for a mega-bucks job, I'd suggest you just keep applying until you hit on a firm which doesn't have those hoops to jump through. Bypass the recruitment agents and use sites like emptylemon, jobstheword, hired and anthology. Also Technojobs often has direct employers.
I think at the moment there are loads of companies pretending to recruit.
I've had too many deeply suspicious interview processes where they have taken weeks to get back to me or "the role has changed and you are too technical/not technical enough/not got customer facing skills/too customer focused". Yes, I have indeed been given the above contradictory feedback.
The economy is a bit uncertain and budgets are not necessarily signed off. Coupled to the usual inability to plan and hence wanting people ready to start yesterday, I can't help but feel that many firms are continuing recruitment processes with no intention to take anyone on.
In fact, I know for definite that there are two firms around my way advertising non-existent jobs. In one case I know the HR head who told me that all recruitment is frozen as they are over budget, however, they are continuing to advertise. In the other, they have taken someone on but are leaving the job ad up in case it doesn't work out.
The bad agencies are even worse as they trawl the net for job ads and then copy them. I've seen it happen when I have been recruiting myself. I was emailed by an agent with an advert I had written! I hadn't asked them to recruit for me, they had copied the job description from our website and were trawling for candidates ... no doubt they would have then been spamming my HR guy with the CVs collected.
Lots of firms are also using ridiculous hiring processes because the senior management has introduced "retention" KPIs, making it difficult to get rid of someone who doesn't perform and also terrifying managers who are measured on whether people quit within their first year or two. At the moment, I think it's best to take the attitude that if their recruitment process is that over the top then so are their internal processes and it won't be a fun place to work. I have been offered 65K jobs on the back of a 45 minute interview before. Granted, at that level there is a lot more personality and other competences to measure which can perhaps be done more easily in a face to face sizing up, however, it does point to a problem when the 30K jobs are taking weeks of staff effort and the 60K ones are being done utterly informally.
Use LinkedIn, your contacts and even just look at meetup.com or other developer groups - get out there and socialise with people in your field, that way you can bypass the agents and the HR people. Don't forget that lots of firms offer recruitment bounties to their staff and if you are put forward by someone who works there you can be confident of having bypassed the "fake job" syndrome.
I've had too many deeply suspicious interview processes where they have taken weeks to get back to me or "the role has changed and you are too technical/not technical enough/not got customer facing skills/too customer focused". Yes, I have indeed been given the above contradictory feedback.
The economy is a bit uncertain and budgets are not necessarily signed off. Coupled to the usual inability to plan and hence wanting people ready to start yesterday, I can't help but feel that many firms are continuing recruitment processes with no intention to take anyone on.
In fact, I know for definite that there are two firms around my way advertising non-existent jobs. In one case I know the HR head who told me that all recruitment is frozen as they are over budget, however, they are continuing to advertise. In the other, they have taken someone on but are leaving the job ad up in case it doesn't work out.
The bad agencies are even worse as they trawl the net for job ads and then copy them. I've seen it happen when I have been recruiting myself. I was emailed by an agent with an advert I had written! I hadn't asked them to recruit for me, they had copied the job description from our website and were trawling for candidates ... no doubt they would have then been spamming my HR guy with the CVs collected.
Lots of firms are also using ridiculous hiring processes because the senior management has introduced "retention" KPIs, making it difficult to get rid of someone who doesn't perform and also terrifying managers who are measured on whether people quit within their first year or two. At the moment, I think it's best to take the attitude that if their recruitment process is that over the top then so are their internal processes and it won't be a fun place to work. I have been offered 65K jobs on the back of a 45 minute interview before. Granted, at that level there is a lot more personality and other competences to measure which can perhaps be done more easily in a face to face sizing up, however, it does point to a problem when the 30K jobs are taking weeks of staff effort and the 60K ones are being done utterly informally.
Use LinkedIn, your contacts and even just look at meetup.com or other developer groups - get out there and socialise with people in your field, that way you can bypass the agents and the HR people. Don't forget that lots of firms offer recruitment bounties to their staff and if you are put forward by someone who works there you can be confident of having bypassed the "fake job" syndrome.
I'm also in the market for a new role and some of the experiences I've had so far have been absolutely awful.
One particular example was a few weeks back when I arranged to meet the hiring manager for an "informal chat". He cancelled on me with less than an hours notice and I had already started my one hour journey to the meeting location! I then agreed to give him second chance, met for the chat in a local coffee shop and the f
king prick didn't even offer to buy me a drink despite the fact that he could easily have claimed it back on expenses. Then, he tells me at the end that'd he'd send me the full spec and we'd go from there. Did I hear back? Did I fk! This spineless tt didn't even have the fking balls to tell me that he had either changed his mind/was no longer recruiting/whatever and that's despite the effort I had put in to meet this son of a fking bh! If I ever see him again I'd be tempted to give him a strong talking to. Was this some sort of stty independent company that nobody has ever heard of before? No, it was GOOGLE!!!
Then, this afternoon, I had a telephone interview scheduled. I had organised my day so that I could do the prep and fit in the call. 3pm is the scheduled time of the call. Has it gone ahead? No, it fking hasn't and I've heard fk all from this guy to apologise for the delay.
This is worse than dating!
One particular example was a few weeks back when I arranged to meet the hiring manager for an "informal chat". He cancelled on me with less than an hours notice and I had already started my one hour journey to the meeting location! I then agreed to give him second chance, met for the chat in a local coffee shop and the f
king prick didn't even offer to buy me a drink despite the fact that he could easily have claimed it back on expenses. Then, he tells me at the end that'd he'd send me the full spec and we'd go from there. Did I hear back? Did I fk! This spineless tt didn't even have the fking balls to tell me that he had either changed his mind/was no longer recruiting/whatever and that's despite the effort I had put in to meet this son of a fking bh! If I ever see him again I'd be tempted to give him a strong talking to. Was this some sort of stty independent company that nobody has ever heard of before? No, it was GOOGLE!!!Then, this afternoon, I had a telephone interview scheduled. I had organised my day so that I could do the prep and fit in the call. 3pm is the scheduled time of the call. Has it gone ahead? No, it f
king hasn't and I've heard fk all from this guy to apologise for the delay.This is worse than dating!
CC07 PEU said:
I'm also in the market for a new role and some of the experiences I've had so far have been absolutely awful.
One particular example was a few weeks back when I arranged to meet the hiring manager for an "informal chat". He cancelled on me with less than an hours notice and I had already started my one hour journey to the meeting location! I then agreed to give him second chance, met for the chat in a local coffee shop and the fking prick didn't even offer to buy me a drink despite the fact that he could easily have claimed it back on expenses. Then, he tells me at the end that'd he'd send me the full spec and we'd go from there. Did I hear back? Did I fk! This spineless tt didn't even have the fking balls to tell me that he had either changed his mind/was no longer recruiting/whatever and that's despite the effort I had put in to meet this son of a fking bh! If I ever see him again I'd be tempted to give him a strong talking to. Was this some sort of stty independent company that nobody has ever heard of before? No, it was GOOGLE!!!
Then, this afternoon, I had a telephone interview scheduled. I had organised my day so that I could do the prep and fit in the call. 3pm is the scheduled time of the call. Has it gone ahead? No, it fking hasn't and I've heard fk all from this guy to apologise for the delay.
This is worse than dating!
80% of people are totally useless at conducting interviews. Completely useless.One particular example was a few weeks back when I arranged to meet the hiring manager for an "informal chat". He cancelled on me with less than an hours notice and I had already started my one hour journey to the meeting location! I then agreed to give him second chance, met for the chat in a local coffee shop and the f
king prick didn't even offer to buy me a drink despite the fact that he could easily have claimed it back on expenses. Then, he tells me at the end that'd he'd send me the full spec and we'd go from there. Did I hear back? Did I fk! This spineless tt didn't even have the fking balls to tell me that he had either changed his mind/was no longer recruiting/whatever and that's despite the effort I had put in to meet this son of a fking bh! If I ever see him again I'd be tempted to give him a strong talking to. Was this some sort of stty independent company that nobody has ever heard of before? No, it was GOOGLE!!!Then, this afternoon, I had a telephone interview scheduled. I had organised my day so that I could do the prep and fit in the call. 3pm is the scheduled time of the call. Has it gone ahead? No, it f
king hasn't and I've heard fk all from this guy to apologise for the delay.This is worse than dating!
If you are fortunate enough to meet one of the 20% - you are in good hands.
I have been looking for a new job for 6 years. Some of you may think that crazy. But, I wanted to change industry and the job I had was a good one. For the first couple of years, I struggled to get a response to my application. I updated my resume/cv and started getting rejections. This really inspired me. I was finally being acknowledged.
I then took a real look at my skill set and was honest with myself. I was trying to adapt to the role. So, I changed the positions I was looking at. I started getting phone interviews.
I couldn't get passed the phone interview though. You may think that was because I was aiming too high. I did, and started applying for junior level roles. I even applied for unpaid intern positions. But, in fact it was the opposite. I was rejected for too much experience on all positions.
So, I started applying for higher level jobs and still got rejected. This was because no one was willing to bring me over to their industry. Something I completely understand. My next plan was to start stripping off things from my resume. Next application got me a face to face interview. I would neglect to say I have 10 people reporting for me. I would breeze over my CEO level meetings at client sites. These were things that, in my chosen new industry, could only have been dreamed of. In that industry, everyone had a role and it was very focused. I went through a couple of interviews. One where the interviewer said he was going to change his name from Bill to Liam because of the thought process behind naming my son. Each time though, I'd get found out when meeting with the MD. They could always see through my new thinned down experience.
So, after 6 years of being rejected for too much experience and not enough experience I have learnt that changing industry is tough. I've been close to getting a position but rejected only because my current role pays less than the proposed role so they couldn't align the salaries. But, they couldn't give me a more junior role because my profile didn't fit.
In January this year, I applied to a company in my current industry and they hired me on the spot. It's not the answer I was looking for but its new clients and new challenges. Going through the process has made me much better at interviewing.
I then took a real look at my skill set and was honest with myself. I was trying to adapt to the role. So, I changed the positions I was looking at. I started getting phone interviews.
I couldn't get passed the phone interview though. You may think that was because I was aiming too high. I did, and started applying for junior level roles. I even applied for unpaid intern positions. But, in fact it was the opposite. I was rejected for too much experience on all positions.
So, I started applying for higher level jobs and still got rejected. This was because no one was willing to bring me over to their industry. Something I completely understand. My next plan was to start stripping off things from my resume. Next application got me a face to face interview. I would neglect to say I have 10 people reporting for me. I would breeze over my CEO level meetings at client sites. These were things that, in my chosen new industry, could only have been dreamed of. In that industry, everyone had a role and it was very focused. I went through a couple of interviews. One where the interviewer said he was going to change his name from Bill to Liam because of the thought process behind naming my son. Each time though, I'd get found out when meeting with the MD. They could always see through my new thinned down experience.
So, after 6 years of being rejected for too much experience and not enough experience I have learnt that changing industry is tough. I've been close to getting a position but rejected only because my current role pays less than the proposed role so they couldn't align the salaries. But, they couldn't give me a more junior role because my profile didn't fit.
In January this year, I applied to a company in my current industry and they hired me on the spot. It's not the answer I was looking for but its new clients and new challenges. Going through the process has made me much better at interviewing.
Just an update on the job search, still getting about one call a day from recruitment consultants that amount to absolutely nothing but I am polite and enthusiastic as you never know if one will actually turn into anything. My last interview was last week. To recap:
Company 1: My first interview, went well but they had stupidly exacting requirements and are still looking months later.
Company 2: Went to London for the interview then they offered the job holder more money so he stayed!
Company 3: IT business with a Sales and Marketing Director desperately sinking under workload. Interview went well but then she emailed to say she was too busy to train up a new person!
Company 3: Phone interview, feedback was that I was over qualified (I was)
Company 4: In Richmond which, on the way up, I realised the commute would be a PITA and I'd have to park in an NCP everyday. Went well but they never came back to me.
Company 4: Nice agency, really wanted to work there, oddly they interviewed all candidates for 3 positions at the same time. I met the other two candidates in for the same job as me, fancied my chances against them but apparently one was a 'perfect fit' for the business. Disappointing but onwards and upwards...
Company 5: Last week, big Pharma company, interview went well and then they pulled the budget for the role.
Company 6: Wrote to them with a proposal for running different types of events (they do it already but I had some new ideas). They showed some interest but then went quiet.
I may have missed one or two here but I hope this provides a bit of information on what it can be like looking for a new role. I am pragmatic about the whole process, everyone I speak to or every interview I do I immediately forget about and move on. It would be soul destroying to get too expectant. I spend about an hour a day on the job boards but no more than that and often leave it a few days as it's quite draining and repetitive. I email all my rec contacts every few weeks to keep in touch too. Feedback is that I have an excellent CV and I think I do but if so, goodness only knows what its like for those that don't! I'm keep a daily routine too which helps (so I don't spend all day in bed) and am thankful that I don't need to earn a salary otherwise I'd be sweeping the roads by now.
As I said, onward and upwards...
Company 1: My first interview, went well but they had stupidly exacting requirements and are still looking months later.
Company 2: Went to London for the interview then they offered the job holder more money so he stayed!
Company 3: IT business with a Sales and Marketing Director desperately sinking under workload. Interview went well but then she emailed to say she was too busy to train up a new person!
Company 3: Phone interview, feedback was that I was over qualified (I was)
Company 4: In Richmond which, on the way up, I realised the commute would be a PITA and I'd have to park in an NCP everyday. Went well but they never came back to me.
Company 4: Nice agency, really wanted to work there, oddly they interviewed all candidates for 3 positions at the same time. I met the other two candidates in for the same job as me, fancied my chances against them but apparently one was a 'perfect fit' for the business. Disappointing but onwards and upwards...
Company 5: Last week, big Pharma company, interview went well and then they pulled the budget for the role.
Company 6: Wrote to them with a proposal for running different types of events (they do it already but I had some new ideas). They showed some interest but then went quiet.
I may have missed one or two here but I hope this provides a bit of information on what it can be like looking for a new role. I am pragmatic about the whole process, everyone I speak to or every interview I do I immediately forget about and move on. It would be soul destroying to get too expectant. I spend about an hour a day on the job boards but no more than that and often leave it a few days as it's quite draining and repetitive. I email all my rec contacts every few weeks to keep in touch too. Feedback is that I have an excellent CV and I think I do but if so, goodness only knows what its like for those that don't! I'm keep a daily routine too which helps (so I don't spend all day in bed) and am thankful that I don't need to earn a salary otherwise I'd be sweeping the roads by now.
As I said, onward and upwards...
I've just managed to score the job of my life - at 44 I might, if I don't fk this up, I might not need to look too hard for work again. And all through maintaining my contacts. I've applied for about 7 or 8 contract positions and one permanent in the past 6 months. All are in industries outside my recognised expertise, but all have a need for the transferable skills I've got. And that's what I played on. I've got about 10 different versions of my CV, and all will be tailored to fit whatever is required.
Since leaving my last company nearly 2 years ago, I've had a great time consulting through people I know, but its not really provided a consistent enough income, so I decided at the start of 2016, I had until the end of March to sort something out or it was on the hunt for proper, full-time work. I told my contacts this, and many started putting proposals my way, or offering to put my CV to others. And this is how I've ended up with the role I start next week.
Running your own show, consulting to others was, for me, an endless job search, but I got to meet lots of great people and have a go at many different things, most of which I'd never have thought of doing. And some of these helped get the role I've now got.
Why not set yourself up as a one-man-band for a bit - get some short-term stuff through those that know you? But my 2c is to use your contacts for all their worth - find excuses to meet them, to get in front of them. In the past 6-7 years, I've never sent my CV to someone I've never met. I'll also echo what others have said, and that is recruitment agencies are like estate agents - you don't really need them.
Good luck with whatever comes along!
k this up, I might not need to look too hard for work again. And all through maintaining my contacts. I've applied for about 7 or 8 contract positions and one permanent in the past 6 months. All are in industries outside my recognised expertise, but all have a need for the transferable skills I've got. And that's what I played on. I've got about 10 different versions of my CV, and all will be tailored to fit whatever is required. Since leaving my last company nearly 2 years ago, I've had a great time consulting through people I know, but its not really provided a consistent enough income, so I decided at the start of 2016, I had until the end of March to sort something out or it was on the hunt for proper, full-time work. I told my contacts this, and many started putting proposals my way, or offering to put my CV to others. And this is how I've ended up with the role I start next week.
Running your own show, consulting to others was, for me, an endless job search, but I got to meet lots of great people and have a go at many different things, most of which I'd never have thought of doing. And some of these helped get the role I've now got.
Why not set yourself up as a one-man-band for a bit - get some short-term stuff through those that know you? But my 2c is to use your contacts for all their worth - find excuses to meet them, to get in front of them. In the past 6-7 years, I've never sent my CV to someone I've never met. I'll also echo what others have said, and that is recruitment agencies are like estate agents - you don't really need them.
Good luck with whatever comes along!
Undirection said:
I have a job! Just been offered one with a local company, marketing/automotive based, they are growing fast, there's lots of potential for progression, seems perfect. Woo - Hoo. Only took about 5 months but I'm there now. I could write a book on finding a job now!
That's excellent - every time this thread was bumped I hoped it was with this news. 
Good luck!Undirection said:
I have a job! Just been offered one with a local company, marketing/automotive based, they are growing fast, there's lots of potential for progression, seems perfect. Woo - Hoo. Only took about 5 months but I'm there now. I could write a book on finding a job now!
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