Employment Law Advice - Anyone Please ?
Discussion
Good evening and thanks to anyone who can contribute here or offer their '2p worth'
I will try and keep this as short as possible as with any employment issue there is usually a lot of information/factors to consider but i will timeline as best possible for clarity:
A friend of mine has worked for a care firm since Nov 2014, she was taken on under a 16 hour contract
She had some personal health issues when starting the job but made the employer aware, i will not go into details as it is an intimate problem
One issue that arose approx a month after starting (cold weather season) was ongoing tonsil problem that moved down onto her chest and due to this worsening, she spoke with her care manager who warned her she was still on probation and the issue could effect her employment and so as a compromise and not wanting to lose her job, she offered to lower her hours to try and display a willingness to 'work with the firm' as she needed the job and actually enjoyed it, to which the firm agreed
Approx 3 months after reducing hours, she had multiple appointments for a more intimate issue, which required quite a lot of medication that did not effect her ability to work but the issue somewhat did, she contact the firm and advised provisions they could put in place that would mean she would be able to work to her full ability and these provisions were not strenuous, for example asking for local calls or access to a toilet to ensure she could fulfill her contract but they continued to issue regular rota's and made no adjustments
2 months later they rung her to 'check' she could not work specific shifts they had rota for her, she explained that due to extra expense from the illness at the time, she could not afford to fuel her vehicle for the many calls rota in, as they were varied around her area. The care co-ordinator who made the call then said to her 'you might be better off just quitting and signing on' to which she stated she wants to work and just needs a bit of help to get back on her feet such as working 'sit shifts' where travel is not needed and so could get a good wage to fuel car for the longer shifts, as she was not unwilling to do them, it just wasnt financially viable at the time. Then the co-ordinator suggest she changes her contract to 'bank' (which is a 0 hours contract) and explained she gives her availability at the beginning of the week and then the firm work around that, providing hours when convenient and most bank workers are given an average of 25 hours per week so there would always be work available and so she agreed
A short time later, she received her new contract for bank, which she signed and returned (this was in August)
In October she received a letter stating she had 'left their permanent employment' and as she was studying a qualification with the firm and had 'terminated' her employment, she was now liable to pay the full cost of the course
After receiving the letter, she called the office to explain she had not resigned, she had just changed contract and so they advised she would need to speak to HR regarding the matter as, as far as the office was concerned - she had resign
She called HR, spoke with someone and explained situation. She was then called back by HR manager who said that she didnt have to resign but they could just change the contract and she would not have to pay the course fee, only the registration fee, which she refused
She has since received no contact until today, stating she was due 're-training' and has had no call for availability of hours since 11 October and has therefore received no hours since
The point i highlight as possible illegal practise was the contract change. If they have recorded her as resigned (which they have as her tax code was changed), surely they need some sort of proof of this ? Secondly does the employer have a 'duty of care' towards her, even only having been with the firm for a limited period as she was quite clearly able to demonstrate the medical issues and appointments??
The contract sent out, was literally just that - it had no mention of resigning or leaving and as far as she was concerned, they were trying to 'help' her in terms of budgeting, hours etc. She has since had to find another job but as she had an attachment of earnings (for council tax) from previous rented property to this wage and as she has had no hours, she has now default on this and has a court summons and so obviously i want to try and help her as much as possible and as quickly as possible and so hoping someone might be able to help here please. If anyone needs more information or has any extra questions, please feel free and i will ensure any information given is true and accurate as obviously the sensitivity of the matter requires it.
Oh and for the record, being a cars forum, the vehicle in question is not a big V8 to fuel or a massive jeep etc but a simple Perugeot 206 1.6 petrol but due to calls being spread out, the cost of the fuel is quite a lot. As she does not get paid until travelling over 6 miles for first call, she loses out and are only paid from logging in at a call and logging out, i believe the 'time out of house' VS 'paid wage' would not even cover national minimum wage and believe there was a recent regulation change that has to ensure there is a minimum payment standard met but due to no hours have not been able to record this.
The potential pitfalls are that all calls are NOT recorded and so limited resource to backup anything. Most conversations are over the phone or in the office and so unable to again show proof of these. But im hoping the 'change of contract' is under a 'false resignation' which may be illegal and so might warrant further action. So before she files a grievance or similar, have decided to ask for some help first..
Thanks in advance to anyone able to advise or give their experience or opinion on the matter ! Sorry its a bit long in the tooth but tried to keep relevant information only !!
I will try and keep this as short as possible as with any employment issue there is usually a lot of information/factors to consider but i will timeline as best possible for clarity:
A friend of mine has worked for a care firm since Nov 2014, she was taken on under a 16 hour contract
She had some personal health issues when starting the job but made the employer aware, i will not go into details as it is an intimate problem
One issue that arose approx a month after starting (cold weather season) was ongoing tonsil problem that moved down onto her chest and due to this worsening, she spoke with her care manager who warned her she was still on probation and the issue could effect her employment and so as a compromise and not wanting to lose her job, she offered to lower her hours to try and display a willingness to 'work with the firm' as she needed the job and actually enjoyed it, to which the firm agreed
Approx 3 months after reducing hours, she had multiple appointments for a more intimate issue, which required quite a lot of medication that did not effect her ability to work but the issue somewhat did, she contact the firm and advised provisions they could put in place that would mean she would be able to work to her full ability and these provisions were not strenuous, for example asking for local calls or access to a toilet to ensure she could fulfill her contract but they continued to issue regular rota's and made no adjustments
2 months later they rung her to 'check' she could not work specific shifts they had rota for her, she explained that due to extra expense from the illness at the time, she could not afford to fuel her vehicle for the many calls rota in, as they were varied around her area. The care co-ordinator who made the call then said to her 'you might be better off just quitting and signing on' to which she stated she wants to work and just needs a bit of help to get back on her feet such as working 'sit shifts' where travel is not needed and so could get a good wage to fuel car for the longer shifts, as she was not unwilling to do them, it just wasnt financially viable at the time. Then the co-ordinator suggest she changes her contract to 'bank' (which is a 0 hours contract) and explained she gives her availability at the beginning of the week and then the firm work around that, providing hours when convenient and most bank workers are given an average of 25 hours per week so there would always be work available and so she agreed
A short time later, she received her new contract for bank, which she signed and returned (this was in August)
In October she received a letter stating she had 'left their permanent employment' and as she was studying a qualification with the firm and had 'terminated' her employment, she was now liable to pay the full cost of the course
After receiving the letter, she called the office to explain she had not resigned, she had just changed contract and so they advised she would need to speak to HR regarding the matter as, as far as the office was concerned - she had resign
She called HR, spoke with someone and explained situation. She was then called back by HR manager who said that she didnt have to resign but they could just change the contract and she would not have to pay the course fee, only the registration fee, which she refused
She has since received no contact until today, stating she was due 're-training' and has had no call for availability of hours since 11 October and has therefore received no hours since
The point i highlight as possible illegal practise was the contract change. If they have recorded her as resigned (which they have as her tax code was changed), surely they need some sort of proof of this ? Secondly does the employer have a 'duty of care' towards her, even only having been with the firm for a limited period as she was quite clearly able to demonstrate the medical issues and appointments??
The contract sent out, was literally just that - it had no mention of resigning or leaving and as far as she was concerned, they were trying to 'help' her in terms of budgeting, hours etc. She has since had to find another job but as she had an attachment of earnings (for council tax) from previous rented property to this wage and as she has had no hours, she has now default on this and has a court summons and so obviously i want to try and help her as much as possible and as quickly as possible and so hoping someone might be able to help here please. If anyone needs more information or has any extra questions, please feel free and i will ensure any information given is true and accurate as obviously the sensitivity of the matter requires it.
Oh and for the record, being a cars forum, the vehicle in question is not a big V8 to fuel or a massive jeep etc but a simple Perugeot 206 1.6 petrol but due to calls being spread out, the cost of the fuel is quite a lot. As she does not get paid until travelling over 6 miles for first call, she loses out and are only paid from logging in at a call and logging out, i believe the 'time out of house' VS 'paid wage' would not even cover national minimum wage and believe there was a recent regulation change that has to ensure there is a minimum payment standard met but due to no hours have not been able to record this.
The potential pitfalls are that all calls are NOT recorded and so limited resource to backup anything. Most conversations are over the phone or in the office and so unable to again show proof of these. But im hoping the 'change of contract' is under a 'false resignation' which may be illegal and so might warrant further action. So before she files a grievance or similar, have decided to ask for some help first..
Thanks in advance to anyone able to advise or give their experience or opinion on the matter ! Sorry its a bit long in the tooth but tried to keep relevant information only !!
I'm not an expert, but my understanding is your wife signed a contract to work x amount of hours and in reality failed on her part due to illness.
Generally companies I've worked for, have capability and conduct reviews to manage illness, but this has been for employees over 2 years when full rights kick in.
in this case I would say there are minimal rights to be had and she was unable to the job.
Regarding the contract change, the way I can see they have done her a favour as they could have dismissed her. what they have done is not a ethical way about it.
''If the employee can’t do their job because there are no reasonable adjustments that can be made, it may be fair for you to dismiss them, even if they’re disabled.''
https://www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/dismissals-due-to...
Generally companies I've worked for, have capability and conduct reviews to manage illness, but this has been for employees over 2 years when full rights kick in.
in this case I would say there are minimal rights to be had and she was unable to the job.
Regarding the contract change, the way I can see they have done her a favour as they could have dismissed her. what they have done is not a ethical way about it.
''If the employee can’t do their job because there are no reasonable adjustments that can be made, it may be fair for you to dismiss them, even if they’re disabled.''
https://www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/dismissals-due-to...
Edited by The Spruce goose on Tuesday 17th November 23:54
It looks like a classic case of a co ordinator being the nice guy then stabbing the employee in the back.
Is she in a Union? if so get advice from them.
She will have limited rights as she has not got 2 years service, so protection is limited as such. What you need to look at is the companies procedure and go to HR showing them where the company has failed in following its procedure. She may get something from that, but it might be just the case that she is now a target to get rid of due to her unfortunate illnesses.
Any more correspondance should only be in writing, but she did sign a new contract, albeit she never resigned formally.
Not much assistance I can give otherwise.
Re the attachment of earnings, get in touch with the Council and explain the situation, if you have to go to court, take all details of employment and be polite, attempt to pay and make offers to pay too.
Is she in a Union? if so get advice from them.
She will have limited rights as she has not got 2 years service, so protection is limited as such. What you need to look at is the companies procedure and go to HR showing them where the company has failed in following its procedure. She may get something from that, but it might be just the case that she is now a target to get rid of due to her unfortunate illnesses.
Any more correspondance should only be in writing, but she did sign a new contract, albeit she never resigned formally.
Not much assistance I can give otherwise.
Re the attachment of earnings, get in touch with the Council and explain the situation, if you have to go to court, take all details of employment and be polite, attempt to pay and make offers to pay too.
The Spruce goose said:
I'm not an expert, but my understanding is your wife signed a contract to work x amount of hours and in reality failed on her part due to illness.
in this case I would say there are minimal rights to be had and she was unable to the job.
Regarding the contract change, the way I can see they have done her a favour as they could have dismissed her. what they have done is not a ethical way about it.
''If the employee can’t do their job because there are no reasonable adjustments that can be made, it may be fair for you to dismiss them, even if they’re disabled.''
https://www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/dismissals-due-to...
Thanks for your input ! But she umm is not my wife lol please dont wish marriage upon me just yet in this case I would say there are minimal rights to be had and she was unable to the job.
Regarding the contract change, the way I can see they have done her a favour as they could have dismissed her. what they have done is not a ethical way about it.
''If the employee can’t do their job because there are no reasonable adjustments that can be made, it may be fair for you to dismiss them, even if they’re disabled.''
https://www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/dismissals-due-to...
Edited by The Spruce goose on Tuesday 17th November 23:54
!! But she never failed to meet her contract hours or job description, the only time she didnt work her contracted hours, was when they were not issued (which obviously they had to pay her for as per contract) but she always ensured she done the job to the best of her ability. She called in sick with chest infection and so cannot be held against her as far as im aware ? As it was never addressed or investigated etc.And she was not 'unable' to do the job, without going into to much detail its a period related issue (Polycystic ovary) and so more needing to be able to clean up when necessary - never was it a health risk to any service users but just very uncomfortable
anothernameitist said:
It looks like a classic case of a co ordinator being the nice guy then stabbing the employee in the back.
What you need to look at is the companies procedure and go to HR showing them where the company has failed in following its procedure. She may get something from that, but it might be just the case that she is now a target to get rid of due to her unfortunate illnesses.
The company process is a very good idea, thank you ! And as for communication in writing now i have already advised that and so preparing a letter as she still works for them at the moment their just not giving her any hours ! And to make matters worse, she lost her temp job she took up whilst getting no hours today.. Never rains but pours..What you need to look at is the companies procedure and go to HR showing them where the company has failed in following its procedure. She may get something from that, but it might be just the case that she is now a target to get rid of due to her unfortunate illnesses.
May request an employee handbook and if process has not been properly followed, suggest writing a grievance. The entire office really are quite incompetent, for example the person who prepares the rotas does a terrible job at it and everyone knows it but because she was 'taken on' to do that, they leave her continue to do them, even though the person who done them before she started done a much better job, they cant train her as she doesnt understand but yet still employed ! Im sad to say theres a lof of care firms out there that seem to have internal issues that effect staff and therein service users but im off point.
Thanks again both for your input, any info is always welcomed and appreciate you taking your time to read and reply, especially being a car forum !!
You may wish to in the first instance read up on the Equality Act 2010 and specifically what is a "disability". If this individual has a disability (in law that is) then there are certain protections which are in place (not generally effective per se, but nevertheless they exist) which could assist her.
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