CIPS - Chartered Institute of Procurement & Supply
Discussion
A search returned a couple of results, but nothing that answered my questions specifically regarding CIPS.
My current employee has agreed to fund my CIPS qualification (if I pass!) and I am looking for a bit of advice if anyone has completed or is currently completing this qualification.
I am fairly young (24), dont't have kids, so really have no big time commitments and have been working within a purchasing environment with my current and previous employer for around 3 years. I work full time and plan on completing the CIPS qualification through self study.
My questions are;
How did you study? and what resources did you use? E learning or did you purchase the relevant books?
If you studied whilst working full time, how long did it take you to complete the qualification?
Did you then move on to MCIPs?
i have various other questions should anyone be kind enough to allow me to ask them.
I should also state, that I am looking at starting at Level 4.
My current employee has agreed to fund my CIPS qualification (if I pass!) and I am looking for a bit of advice if anyone has completed or is currently completing this qualification.
I am fairly young (24), dont't have kids, so really have no big time commitments and have been working within a purchasing environment with my current and previous employer for around 3 years. I work full time and plan on completing the CIPS qualification through self study.
My questions are;
How did you study? and what resources did you use? E learning or did you purchase the relevant books?
If you studied whilst working full time, how long did it take you to complete the qualification?
Did you then move on to MCIPs?
i have various other questions should anyone be kind enough to allow me to ask them.
I should also state, that I am looking at starting at Level 4.
To answer your questions.
For Level 4 you simply need to learn the book, the books can be purchased from CIP's if you become a member you will get a discount plus the Supply Chain Magazine which is worth having.
We have the buyers here (NHS) doing level 4 at the moment, due to the type of work they do on a day to day basis they are struggling to relate to the book, we have found giving them small projects aimed at the book they are studying really helps them out. So ask your manager for similar.
If you can absorb a book and recall on demand you will pass the exam easily assuming you can relate. Any courses or learning on top I found to be a waste of money.
You can take 3 exams at once if you wish, but i would advise 2 at once.
Lots of practice/old test papers are available so do a few of those.
If you do 2 exams a sitting those happen every 3 months you should be able to do level 4 in a year.
Level 5 and 6 take a bit longer. Usually you are looking at 5 years ish to be MCIPS. But you really need a job to suit otherwise the projects in the higher levels are impossible.
For Level 4 you simply need to learn the book, the books can be purchased from CIP's if you become a member you will get a discount plus the Supply Chain Magazine which is worth having.
We have the buyers here (NHS) doing level 4 at the moment, due to the type of work they do on a day to day basis they are struggling to relate to the book, we have found giving them small projects aimed at the book they are studying really helps them out. So ask your manager for similar.
If you can absorb a book and recall on demand you will pass the exam easily assuming you can relate. Any courses or learning on top I found to be a waste of money.
You can take 3 exams at once if you wish, but i would advise 2 at once.
Lots of practice/old test papers are available so do a few of those.
If you do 2 exams a sitting those happen every 3 months you should be able to do level 4 in a year.
Level 5 and 6 take a bit longer. Usually you are looking at 5 years ish to be MCIPS. But you really need a job to suit otherwise the projects in the higher levels are impossible.
Bertrum said:
To answer your questions.
For Level 4 you simply need to learn the book, the books can be purchased from CIP's if you become a member you will get a discount plus the Supply Chain Magazine which is worth having.
We have the buyers here (NHS) doing level 4 at the moment, due to the type of work they do on a day to day basis they are struggling to relate to the book, we have found giving them small projects aimed at the book they are studying really helps them out. So ask your manager for similar.
If you can absorb a book and recall on demand you will pass the exam easily assuming you can relate. Any courses or learning on top I found to be a waste of money.
You can take 3 exams at once if you wish, but i would advise 2 at once.
Lots of practice/old test papers are available so do a few of those.
If you do 2 exams a sitting those happen every 3 months you should be able to do level 4 in a year.
Level 5 and 6 take a bit longer. Usually you are looking at 5 years ish to be MCIPS. But you really need a job to suit otherwise the projects in the higher levels are impossible.
Thank you for the feedback, answered my questions. My main concern was would I be at a disadvantage of just learning from the book rather than having some tutoring.For Level 4 you simply need to learn the book, the books can be purchased from CIP's if you become a member you will get a discount plus the Supply Chain Magazine which is worth having.
We have the buyers here (NHS) doing level 4 at the moment, due to the type of work they do on a day to day basis they are struggling to relate to the book, we have found giving them small projects aimed at the book they are studying really helps them out. So ask your manager for similar.
If you can absorb a book and recall on demand you will pass the exam easily assuming you can relate. Any courses or learning on top I found to be a waste of money.
You can take 3 exams at once if you wish, but i would advise 2 at once.
Lots of practice/old test papers are available so do a few of those.
If you do 2 exams a sitting those happen every 3 months you should be able to do level 4 in a year.
Level 5 and 6 take a bit longer. Usually you are looking at 5 years ish to be MCIPS. But you really need a job to suit otherwise the projects in the higher levels are impossible.
It depends if you're a self motivated student or not. My previous employer funded my level 4 CIPS where I had day release to London Met University (a crap institution except for CIPS).
I enjoyed going back to the classroom, exams not so much, and would never have passed left to my own devices.
It's a very relevant qualification and well worth doing.
I enjoyed going back to the classroom, exams not so much, and would never have passed left to my own devices.
It's a very relevant qualification and well worth doing.
I did level 4 at college not too much of an issue.
Level 5 and 6 however was an issue, no local colleges run the course anymore due to lack of demand so it's self study.
In my job I found it hard to self study and relate the books to my work.
Luckily I moved employers who encouraged me to go down the NVQ route.
This took 18 months and lots of work. In the end my portfolio was 2 lever arch files of work.
I found it more beneficial to do this route as its all evidence based and thus you need to be doing the work to get the evidence.
Again it is very much an old fashioned qualification and I've worked for 20 years in purchasing and I've come across some useless CIPS qualified academics and some brilliant unqualified employees.
Level 5 and 6 however was an issue, no local colleges run the course anymore due to lack of demand so it's self study.
In my job I found it hard to self study and relate the books to my work.
Luckily I moved employers who encouraged me to go down the NVQ route.
This took 18 months and lots of work. In the end my portfolio was 2 lever arch files of work.
I found it more beneficial to do this route as its all evidence based and thus you need to be doing the work to get the evidence.
Again it is very much an old fashioned qualification and I've worked for 20 years in purchasing and I've come across some useless CIPS qualified academics and some brilliant unqualified employees.
Downward said:
I did level 4 at college not too much of an issue.
Level 5 and 6 however was an issue, no local colleges run the course anymore due to lack of demand so it's self study.
In my job I found it hard to self study and relate the books to my work.
Luckily I moved employers who encouraged me to go down the NVQ route.
This took 18 months and lots of work. In the end my portfolio was 2 lever arch files of work.
I found it more beneficial to do this route as its all evidence based and thus you need to be doing the work to get the evidence.
Again it is very much an old fashioned qualification and I've worked for 20 years in purchasing and I've come across some useless CIPS qualified academics and some brilliant unqualified employees.
Unfortunately CIPS have seen fit to get rid of a vocational route to MCIPS now, so that's no longer an option. Such a shame as not everyones learning style is suited to exams. Level 5 and 6 however was an issue, no local colleges run the course anymore due to lack of demand so it's self study.
In my job I found it hard to self study and relate the books to my work.
Luckily I moved employers who encouraged me to go down the NVQ route.
This took 18 months and lots of work. In the end my portfolio was 2 lever arch files of work.
I found it more beneficial to do this route as its all evidence based and thus you need to be doing the work to get the evidence.
Again it is very much an old fashioned qualification and I've worked for 20 years in purchasing and I've come across some useless CIPS qualified academics and some brilliant unqualified employees.
CIPS decided not to accredit the replacement to the Supply Chain Management NVQ (Procurement Diplomas), This is a real shame as they are a great qualification and really a step up from the old NVQ.
CIPS are rapidly turning into an institution which is more about making money rather than looking after its memberships learning needs.
Don't get me started on jobs adverts that require candidates to be MCIPS Quailified. MCIPS is not a qualification, it's an an accreditation.
I'm looking to complete my level 4 - Diploma in procurement and supply.
The business I work for are keen for me to complete, and it is something that I have been wanting to do ever since moving into a purchasing role. The job and future prospects, as far as I can tell are also well suited to CIPS.
I left school, put off going to uni and started working. Therefore since I did my A levels (2010), I have no reason to study. I have just worked hard and it paid off.
I would be looking to complete level 4, through a self study route (I have had sign off of e learning, is the extra cost worth it). As I've not studied for a long time, I have some reservations about motivating my self to come in from work and start 'working' again. Most days I'm out at 7am and not back til 6pm, get back and just want to put my feet up / football / workout.
Before asking my employer if it would be possible to assign time aside out of my working week I just wanted to see whether Pistonheads could give me a grasp on the time scale of the self study route? How long did it take you? I know everyone is different, but guides online state that level 4 can take anywhere between 400 - 600 hours!
Any advice would be much appreciated.
The business I work for are keen for me to complete, and it is something that I have been wanting to do ever since moving into a purchasing role. The job and future prospects, as far as I can tell are also well suited to CIPS.
I left school, put off going to uni and started working. Therefore since I did my A levels (2010), I have no reason to study. I have just worked hard and it paid off.
I would be looking to complete level 4, through a self study route (I have had sign off of e learning, is the extra cost worth it). As I've not studied for a long time, I have some reservations about motivating my self to come in from work and start 'working' again. Most days I'm out at 7am and not back til 6pm, get back and just want to put my feet up / football / workout.
Before asking my employer if it would be possible to assign time aside out of my working week I just wanted to see whether Pistonheads could give me a grasp on the time scale of the self study route? How long did it take you? I know everyone is different, but guides online state that level 4 can take anywhere between 400 - 600 hours!
Any advice would be much appreciated.
georgefreeman918 said:
I'm looking to complete my level 4 - Diploma in procurement and supply.
The business I work for are keen for me to complete, and it is something that I have been wanting to do ever since moving into a purchasing role. The job and future prospects, as far as I can tell are also well suited to CIPS.
I left school, put off going to uni and started working. Therefore since I did my A levels (2010), I have no reason to study. I have just worked hard and it paid off.
I would be looking to complete level 4, through a self study route (I have had sign off of e learning, is the extra cost worth it). As I've not studied for a long time, I have some reservations about motivating my self to come in from work and start 'working' again. Most days I'm out at 7am and not back til 6pm, get back and just want to put my feet up / football / workout.
Before asking my employer if it would be possible to assign time aside out of my working week I just wanted to see whether Pistonheads could give me a grasp on the time scale of the self study route? How long did it take you? I know everyone is different, but guides online state that level 4 can take anywhere between 400 - 600 hours!
Any advice would be much appreciated.
As per my response further up the page, it depends on the type of Procurement job you do as to how easy you will find it, as it is all about relating to the material. The business I work for are keen for me to complete, and it is something that I have been wanting to do ever since moving into a purchasing role. The job and future prospects, as far as I can tell are also well suited to CIPS.
I left school, put off going to uni and started working. Therefore since I did my A levels (2010), I have no reason to study. I have just worked hard and it paid off.
I would be looking to complete level 4, through a self study route (I have had sign off of e learning, is the extra cost worth it). As I've not studied for a long time, I have some reservations about motivating my self to come in from work and start 'working' again. Most days I'm out at 7am and not back til 6pm, get back and just want to put my feet up / football / workout.
Before asking my employer if it would be possible to assign time aside out of my working week I just wanted to see whether Pistonheads could give me a grasp on the time scale of the self study route? How long did it take you? I know everyone is different, but guides online state that level 4 can take anywhere between 400 - 600 hours!
Any advice would be much appreciated.
However if you are able to learn books parrot fashion, you will walk level 4 just by learning what is in them and doing some practice questions.
400-600 hours is an overestimate.....Level 4 is not that hard.
you can take up to 3 exams at once so in theory you could complete level 4 in 12 months.
Bertrum said:
As per my response further up the page, it depends on the type of Procurement job you do as to how easy you will find it, as it is all about relating to the material.
However if you are able to learn books parrot fashion, you will walk level 4 just by learning what is in them and doing some practice questions.
400-600 hours is an overestimate.....Level 4 is not that hard.
you can take up to 3 exams at once so in theory you could complete level 4 in 12 months.
I'm in a similar situation i.e. not studied / taken an exam since A-Levels and have just started Level 4.However if you are able to learn books parrot fashion, you will walk level 4 just by learning what is in them and doing some practice questions.
400-600 hours is an overestimate.....Level 4 is not that hard.
you can take up to 3 exams at once so in theory you could complete level 4 in 12 months.
I've done two exams so far and I'd echo the above i.e. learn the book, do the past papers and you should be fine.
I've been in a procurement role (various roles, industries and sectors) for 15yrs but no experience of manufacturing or public sector, which seems to be a focus of the examples given but it's not too difficult to get your head around it.
The hardest thing for me is writing for 3hrs in the exam, having not hand-written more than a post-it for over 10yrs!
I really struggle with CIPS. I find its teaching material outdated and its lack of scalability frustrating. I have worked in a Contracts & Procurement role for ten years now in oil & gas and considered taking the CIPS many times. I just don't agree with the material though; and in my industry, which tends to be very cyclical in terms of market drivers, CIPS isn't dynamic enough to move with the times.
Far better, IMO doing an LLM, which is what I'll be doing this year.
I can't say I've been hampered by my lack of CIPS qualification either.
Far better, IMO doing an LLM, which is what I'll be doing this year.
I can't say I've been hampered by my lack of CIPS qualification either.
Pennyroyal Tea said:
I really struggle with CIPS. I find its teaching material outdated and its lack of scalability frustrating. I have worked in a Contracts & Procurement role for ten years now in oil & gas and considered taking the CIPS many times. I just don't agree with the material though; and in my industry, which tends to be very cyclical in terms of market drivers, CIPS isn't dynamic enough to move with the times.
Far better, IMO doing an LLM, which is what I'll be doing this year.
I can't say I've been hampered by my lack of CIPS qualification either.
The above could have been written by me !Far better, IMO doing an LLM, which is what I'll be doing this year.
I can't say I've been hampered by my lack of CIPS qualification either.
After 15 years and working up to a fairly senior level in procurement (without Cips) I became rather disillusioned with the whole industry. There are many many companies who put 'must be mcips' as a box ticking exercise and have no idea what it means. I actually did level 4 many moons ago and would describe it as 'ideal world' procurement , its relevance to the job is negligible in my opinion.
The Nvq route was a far better scheme when it was acknowledged and had more real world about it, sadly CIPS now to me just isn't relevant and being honest anyone who's a member , what benefit are you getting from your membership?
I'm have my MCIPS but achieved several years ago when it was modular and exam based.
Not sure of these new levels, but we had to do x number of subjects, basically studying for a term on each at college in the evening.
It did take several years (2 subjects a term, 3 terms a year, 3 years) and what i would say i benefited from was the discussions with other sectors, I was in FMCG Production but was going through the process with guys in automotive, retail, telecoms, it, oil & gas, facilties it did make for some really lively debates with lecturers as we lived and worked in the real world unlike the academics..
What that meant that for years afterwards as i switched sectors then i knew someone who was in the sector so was able to pick their brains.........
Based on my experience i would probably always suggest actual class room learning as opposed to remote, if possible and can be afforded..
Not sure of these new levels, but we had to do x number of subjects, basically studying for a term on each at college in the evening.
It did take several years (2 subjects a term, 3 terms a year, 3 years) and what i would say i benefited from was the discussions with other sectors, I was in FMCG Production but was going through the process with guys in automotive, retail, telecoms, it, oil & gas, facilties it did make for some really lively debates with lecturers as we lived and worked in the real world unlike the academics..
What that meant that for years afterwards as i switched sectors then i knew someone who was in the sector so was able to pick their brains.........
Based on my experience i would probably always suggest actual class room learning as opposed to remote, if possible and can be afforded..
Firstly, why do you want to do it? Because your boss has asked you, self-fulfillment, you think it will increase knowledge, you have a salary increment tied to it or potential marketability for a new job?
I'm not going to knock the qualification (I've got it from the older Foundation and Professional level examination route and was at the time very proud of it), but as some other have stated it's not the be all and end all. I'm also now older and wiser.
When i recruit in the Public Sector, i no longer seek an "MCIPS or working towards". Financially, it may be too much to ask at this stage of your career, but assuming you've got some experience and a half decent degree (possibly A-Levels), i would look to do an MBA/MSC if you are minded to do some studying. A general MBA is good for understanding business. A lot of buyers/category managers/shoppers I've come across over the years only look at the purchasing side rather than consider the supplier in the equation. Understanding business is critical in understanding procurement. God i sound boring.
There are a number of specialist MBA's (Birmingham University) and MSC's (Glamorgan) which may be of interest. The MBA isn't cheap though and has doubled in price since i did it. They'll also throw in full MCIPS if you haven't got it already.
Have a good think about what you are trying to achieve, and the end goal, before you start as any studying is tiring whilst working in my opinion.
And just to agree with some other posters, that CIPS appear to be chasing the money rather than making it a really good level to be proud of. There are routes to getting it where you can write a few essays or seek exemptions, which does devalue it regardless of what anyone says. If you give CIPS a call expecting expert up to the minute research and resources, you'll be disappointed. They call the universities. Grab yourself a few copies of supply management (the CIPS magazine) and its the same old 'what has procurement got to do to get a seat at the board' among some useful tit bits like the case law updates.
Sounds negative, but I've met a good few CIPS qualified folk that i wouldn't send to the shops to buy a pack of sweets. Some of the best people I've employed have no formal qualifications. However, there is no denying that some managers (not leaders) only consider applicants with CIPS. I would ask, do you want to work for people like that? If that's their mindset they may hold you back.
You're young, so you still have the school of hard knocks to learn you.......
I'm not going to knock the qualification (I've got it from the older Foundation and Professional level examination route and was at the time very proud of it), but as some other have stated it's not the be all and end all. I'm also now older and wiser.
When i recruit in the Public Sector, i no longer seek an "MCIPS or working towards". Financially, it may be too much to ask at this stage of your career, but assuming you've got some experience and a half decent degree (possibly A-Levels), i would look to do an MBA/MSC if you are minded to do some studying. A general MBA is good for understanding business. A lot of buyers/category managers/shoppers I've come across over the years only look at the purchasing side rather than consider the supplier in the equation. Understanding business is critical in understanding procurement. God i sound boring.
There are a number of specialist MBA's (Birmingham University) and MSC's (Glamorgan) which may be of interest. The MBA isn't cheap though and has doubled in price since i did it. They'll also throw in full MCIPS if you haven't got it already.
Have a good think about what you are trying to achieve, and the end goal, before you start as any studying is tiring whilst working in my opinion.
And just to agree with some other posters, that CIPS appear to be chasing the money rather than making it a really good level to be proud of. There are routes to getting it where you can write a few essays or seek exemptions, which does devalue it regardless of what anyone says. If you give CIPS a call expecting expert up to the minute research and resources, you'll be disappointed. They call the universities. Grab yourself a few copies of supply management (the CIPS magazine) and its the same old 'what has procurement got to do to get a seat at the board' among some useful tit bits like the case law updates.
Sounds negative, but I've met a good few CIPS qualified folk that i wouldn't send to the shops to buy a pack of sweets. Some of the best people I've employed have no formal qualifications. However, there is no denying that some managers (not leaders) only consider applicants with CIPS. I would ask, do you want to work for people like that? If that's their mindset they may hold you back.
You're young, so you still have the school of hard knocks to learn you.......
It is a tick in the box, Public sector procurement actually record how many qualified staff they have.
There has been an email from them last week, they are no longer offering direct debit but will generously give you £17.50 off the £175 per annum membership as you know have to pay in one go rather than over 10 months
There has been an email from them last week, they are no longer offering direct debit but will generously give you £17.50 off the £175 per annum membership as you know have to pay in one go rather than over 10 months
Downward said:
It is a tick in the box, Public sector procurement actually record how many qualified staff they have.
There has been an email from them last week, they are no longer offering direct debit but will generously give you £17.50 off the £175 per annum membership as you know have to pay in one go rather than over 10 months
I would love to know how many public sector organisations are paying membership fees to CIPS, what a waste of money that could be. There has been an email from them last week, they are no longer offering direct debit but will generously give you £17.50 off the £175 per annum membership as you know have to pay in one go rather than over 10 months
I resent paying my memberships fees as it is but MCIPS seems so important in the Purchasing/Procurement sector.
I wish there was an alternative to CIPS, they just take the piss.
Look for a MA / MSc that is accredited and kill two birds with one stone.
I qualify for my MSc and MCIPS this year, the MSc full time is 1 year, CIPs L4-6 would take a lot longer.
It is a tick in the box exercise and it is slightly dated and quite idealist.
I qualify for my MSc and MCIPS this year, the MSc full time is 1 year, CIPs L4-6 would take a lot longer.
It is a tick in the box exercise and it is slightly dated and quite idealist.
Edited by Trexthedinosaur on Tuesday 1st March 16:32
Membership paid and a confirmation letter received. Will certainly give my impression as the course progresses. £175 does seem a lot for the membership!
Now to take some time to start planning for the first exam.
Has anyone done it distance learning? How many hours do I need to be putting aside? Appreciate everyone is different but if anyone can give any indication please let me know.
Now to take some time to start planning for the first exam.
Has anyone done it distance learning? How many hours do I need to be putting aside? Appreciate everyone is different but if anyone can give any indication please let me know.
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