Long term sick ?

[J4CKO]

I know someone who is on long term sick with stress, obviously the usual sick rules apply, she is most definitely not well and has mentioned the possibility of not being able to return, what happen in these circumstances, usually my interpretation is people hang on for as long as they can whilst they get paid, then they resign.

Is it legal to acknowledge that and potentially make an offer for them to go earlier, i.e, it isnt doign them any good having work still in there life as that is what is causing the issue and it means the business cant recruit to replace and ends up getting contractors in or just cant recruit until a decision is made.

Or do we have to just sit it out, they are off for months, return for a few days, go back on sick again etc.

[Magic919]

Settlement Agreement, used to be called Compromise Agreement.

[anothernameitist]

I take it that when you say off sick with stress, then the stressor is work?

If so as above but what has caused the stress and has anything been done, risk assessment, adjustments, counselling and so on

What are company policies on sick and eventually capability.

Need to look at the above before quitting, unless life is too much still been employed.

[J4CKO]

anothernameitist said:

I take it that when you say off sick with stress, then the stressor is work?

If so as above but what has caused the stress and has anything been done, risk assessment, adjustments, counselling and so on

What are company policies on sick and eventually capability.

Need to look at the above before quitting, unless life is too much still been employed.

Its not myself, this is someone that works for me and it follows several rounds of redundancy and some pretty fundamental changes, despite this the individual has been fairly well isolated from the overall workload but cant cope with it and it causes them pretty bad anxiety that when I speak to them it is palpable down the phone so it is very real.

To be honest I dont think that they will be ready to return at any point it, we cant change the role so it has no stress, its quite well paid and we cant afford to carry someone who cant hack it, they have been kind of protected before.

[The Leaper]

Is she in a company sponsored pension plan through which she can apply for an ill heath early retirement pension? Usually, there's no minimum age criterion to meet but there are medical related criteria she will have to meet for an application to be successful.

R.

[Jasandjules]

A potentially fair reason for dismissal is capability. There are processes which would be expected to be undertaken by an employer but then if followed an employee can potentially be dismissed for being ill. An employee who says they will be too ill to work certainly.

Is there any PHI policy or any other long term sickness policy in place? As above, pension etc as well.

[J4CKO]

Am in the process of finding out the whys and wherefores, its a delicate situation and I dont want them to go but if they cant do the job due to anxiety then really for the sake of the rest of the team I need to replace them with someone who can, its not a pleasant thing to do but then having the other guys doing 68 hours isnt sustainable either.

Most people respond to cash,t hey have already said they dont think they can come back so I feel comfortable investigating the options, to find any kind of peace I think she needs to sever all ties with work sooner rather than later, its been a month on sick now, prior to that they took a lot of leave and did jury duty so realistically hasnt been in more than about 5 days in two month or more anyway.

I dont think in this case that hanging around getting a sick note every two weeks is a good idea, if I could see an improvement then it wouldnt be an issue, I have had staff with chronic illnesses who are now back and productive, there is always some hope but in this case, I cant see a way back.

Money talks and is what will keep someone at a job they hate or on sick in one they cant do, take that out of the equation, acknowledge that one way or another they will get the money but work something out sooner and everyone can move on.

I have seen the system milked to an inch of its life, this, unless this person is up for an Oscar isnt that, a lovely person who just cant cope having had too much to deal with, with a limited capability to deal with it, some people will brush important things off like its a bit of dandruff and other people will sweat over smaller things.

So, I want to be able to offer them, and the company a way to amicably part company and in a way that lets me sleep at night.

[Jasandjules]

What is their notice period? It sounds like you would be able to dismiss for capability, therefore you could give them a golden goodbye payment.... But in an ideal world you would take insured advice (making sure they know your laudable aims).

[Countdown]

When does their occupational sick pay finish? I've generally found people return then.

[megaphone]

Yes, what is your sick pay policy, what does her contract say, can't you put her on statutory sick pay?

[mph1977]

Jasandjules said:

A potentially fair reason for dismissal is capability. There are processes which would be expected to be undertaken by an employer but then if followed an employee can potentially be dismissed for being ill. An employee who says they will be too ill to work certainly.

Is there any PHI policy or any other long term sickness policy in place? As above, pension etc as well.

Valid advice

the employer or line manager SHOULD NOT be trying to find out aobut the causes etc this is a clinical decision for Occupational Health to make and then provide advice to HR and line management.

[otherman]

The Leaper said:

Is she in a company sponsored pension plan through which she can apply for an ill heath early retirement pension? Usually, there's no minimum age criterion to meet but there are medical related criteria she will have to meet for an application to be successful.

The medical criteria for an early pension are that the incapacity is permanent and prevent you getting work without substantial drop in pay. The permanancy part rules out stress as a reason for early retirement.

[J4CKO]

Sick is 60 working days full and 60 half, discussed with HR, they are digging in for a long haul.

[anothernameitist]

Just a thought...

Are they in a union and if so do you have a good relationship with union and could broker a deal through them.

[The Leaper]

otherman,

Assuming there is a pension plan, the criteria to be met for ill health early retirement will be specified within the documentation of the pension plan, and there should also be a procedural statement as to how to process an application. Pension plans have many different specifications so meeting the relevant criteria or not is plan dependent. It is not correct to rely on a general statement such as stress will not meet the criteria.

R.

[megaphone]

J4CKO said:

Sick is 60 working days full and 60 half, discussed with HR, they are digging in for a long haul.

So just shy of 6 months! Ouch. Does it 'reset' if she comes back for a few days/weeks? How long has she been off so far? Will she be able to survive on half pay?

Edited by megaphone on Thursday 28th January 16:18

[otherman]

The Leaper said:

Assuming there is a pension plan, the criteria to be met for ill health early retirement will be specified within the documentation of the pension plan, and there should also be a procedural statement as to how to process an application. Pension plans have many different specifications so meeting the relevant criteria or not is plan dependent. It is not correct to rely on a general statement such as stress will not meet the criteria.
R.

I realise that, but I haven't come across a single scheme that allows stress as a reason for granting an ill-health pension.

[mph1977]

otherman said:

The Leaper said:

Assuming there is a pension plan, the criteria to be met for ill health early retirement will be specified within the documentation of the pension plan, and there should also be a procedural statement as to how to process an application. Pension plans have many different specifications so meeting the relevant criteria or not is plan dependent. It is not correct to rely on a general statement such as stress will not meet the criteria.
R.

I realise that, but I haven't come across a single scheme that allows stress as a reason for granting an ill-health pension.

depends on the actual diagnosis finally arrived at ... PTSD could be a reason for medical retirement