French Corporate Culture
Discussion
My company was small, part of a group. The group has been bought out by a French company. The new company is quite large and very corporate.
I now have a French boss. He seems nice but I find it hard to get on with him at all. He doesn't laugh at anything. I can work out if it is a culture thing in that he doesn't get English humor, or is it that it is French corporate culture - you can't have fun at work.
There is now massive empire building going on in all departments, every director needs to ave at least 4 manager / heads of something, even though the teams are quite small.
Anyone got any experience of French corporations?
I have worked for large corporates before but this is quite different and I feel a bit like I am struggling to fit in
I now have a French boss. He seems nice but I find it hard to get on with him at all. He doesn't laugh at anything. I can work out if it is a culture thing in that he doesn't get English humor, or is it that it is French corporate culture - you can't have fun at work.
There is now massive empire building going on in all departments, every director needs to ave at least 4 manager / heads of something, even though the teams are quite small.
Anyone got any experience of French corporations?
I have worked for large corporates before but this is quite different and I feel a bit like I am struggling to fit in
I have worked for and with French guys, both in France and in London. Like most people, some have a sense of humour, some don't Some are aggressive and in-your-face, some aren't. The only thing that seems consistent (more or less) is that lunch is sacrosanct, coffee is espresso and French taxi drivers appreciate it if you try to speak the language. They sell differently - it's more collaborative IME - and they seem to like to have control. I found they don't do subsidiarity willingly.
I used to work in Paris for a giant French company, state owned of course. The waste was extraordinary. Useless members of staff who'd been with the company for decades and weren't up to the job, everyone worked at the pace of a snail and spent the first hour of the day gossiping with each other and drinking coffee, lunch took forever.
My boss, who was a complete tool, thankfully took seven weeks off in the summer. That was bliss.
He criticised me because I used to come in first thing and crack on with my work instead of going round the entire department shaking hands with/giving bisous to everyone.
Still, I had a nice view of the Eiffel tower from my luxurious spacious office and there was no question of staying late so it wasn't all bad by any stretch.
My boss, who was a complete tool, thankfully took seven weeks off in the summer. That was bliss.
He criticised me because I used to come in first thing and crack on with my work instead of going round the entire department shaking hands with/giving bisous to everyone.
Still, I had a nice view of the Eiffel tower from my luxurious spacious office and there was no question of staying late so it wasn't all bad by any stretch.
I work for one. Not state owned and fairly global. English is mandated to a high level for all employees. French talk to other french in french, but they must switch to English otherwise.
There are some things that don't change - your are defined by your degree and university. If you went to a grand ecole then life is a lot easier. You have lunch away from your desk. No weekend working in the office. Rare for people to be in after 6pm.
There remain some of the invisible hierarchy and structures and (at least) the 40+ generation can still be very formal in emails or 1:1.
Banter is almost non existent, and you must remember that the French sense of humour does exist - it is just very very different to ours (I would class British humour as closer to German humour)
That said, I quite like the culture as they tend to look after people and family is very important. I speak (limited) French so I tend to get on ok with the management teams there, but I know some of my colleagues get frustrated...
There are some things that don't change - your are defined by your degree and university. If you went to a grand ecole then life is a lot easier. You have lunch away from your desk. No weekend working in the office. Rare for people to be in after 6pm.
There remain some of the invisible hierarchy and structures and (at least) the 40+ generation can still be very formal in emails or 1:1.
Banter is almost non existent, and you must remember that the French sense of humour does exist - it is just very very different to ours (I would class British humour as closer to German humour)
That said, I quite like the culture as they tend to look after people and family is very important. I speak (limited) French so I tend to get on ok with the management teams there, but I know some of my colleagues get frustrated...
Vaud said:
I work for one. Not state owned and fairly global. English is mandated to a high level for all employees. French talk to other french in french, but they must switch to English otherwise.
I thought it was illegal to force them to speak English? I worked for a multi-national group and we had to change our global computer system to French in France.Sheepshanks said:
I thought it was illegal to force them to speak English? I worked for a multi-national group and we had to change our global computer system to French in France.
As I said, when they speak to peers in France, they can talk in French.But English as a second language was mandated since 1981 in our company. Not illegal to mandate a second language in many roles.
My wife works as an FC for a company that was US based and taken over by the French. Since then, they only promote internally for French nationals who are far less competent than her and have rolled her over at least three times in as many years for progression even though she was appraised and acknowledged as "top 100" worldwide in the whole business.
They dont even care if they dont have the qualifications for Finance, let alone the relationships and skills....they just look after their own.
Not a blanket statement, just her bitter observation so, as you asked...
They dont even care if they dont have the qualifications for Finance, let alone the relationships and skills....they just look after their own.
Not a blanket statement, just her bitter observation so, as you asked...
jamesson said:
I used to work in Paris for a giant French company, state owned of course. The waste was extraordinary. Useless members of staff who'd been with the company for decades and weren't up to the job, everyone worked at the pace of a snail and spent the first hour of the day gossiping with each other and drinking coffee, lunch took forever.
My boss, who was a complete tool, thankfully took seven weeks off in the summer. That was bliss.
He criticised me because I used to come in first thing and crack on with my work instead of going round the entire department shaking hands with/giving bisous to everyone.
Still, I had a nice view of the Eiffel tower from my luxurious spacious office and there was no question of staying late so it wasn't all bad by any stretch.
Stepping outside the British love of graft for a second, what doesn't sound brilliant about that??My boss, who was a complete tool, thankfully took seven weeks off in the summer. That was bliss.
He criticised me because I used to come in first thing and crack on with my work instead of going round the entire department shaking hands with/giving bisous to everyone.
Still, I had a nice view of the Eiffel tower from my luxurious spacious office and there was no question of staying late so it wasn't all bad by any stretch.
Everyone is in the same boat so it's not like you are losing ground on colleagues or anything - I'd absolutely embrace that and take my long lunch and love it!
i used to travel to paris regularly to fix issues in the paris office for a company i used to work for.
after the 1st couple of times of only just making the eurotunnel home, i got them to book me for 2 days each time.
mainly due to the fact that after the resident director and the other top blokes found out my love for football, i used to end up in 3 hour lunches, despite having work to do. quite liked it really.
all changed when the americans bought the company, they had a paris office and they took over IT support, was a much bigger company than us.
after the 1st couple of times of only just making the eurotunnel home, i got them to book me for 2 days each time.
mainly due to the fact that after the resident director and the other top blokes found out my love for football, i used to end up in 3 hour lunches, despite having work to do. quite liked it really.
all changed when the americans bought the company, they had a paris office and they took over IT support, was a much bigger company than us.
I've a work colleague who once was employed as research chemist at a large French pharma company near Paris.
He tells me that an email went around all staff one day requesting that in order to be "more like their European business peers please could everyone now restrict their lunch break to no more than 2 hours and 1 bottle of wine each."
He tells me that an email went around all staff one day requesting that in order to be "more like their European business peers please could everyone now restrict their lunch break to no more than 2 hours and 1 bottle of wine each."
We are currently run by the existing British arm of the company and the CEO is English so haven't seen much of the long boozy lunches.
Vaud - I am seeing what yo mean about the banter and sense of hummour. Previously in senior manager meetings we would quite often complain about our clients and be rude about them. When I did that last week the look I got was like I stood up and windmilled my cock around.
There is definitely a "jobs for the boys" culture I have seen. Despite fking things royally people get promotions in the re shuffle.
Vaud - I am seeing what yo mean about the banter and sense of hummour. Previously in senior manager meetings we would quite often complain about our clients and be rude about them. When I did that last week the look I got was like I stood up and windmilled my cock around.
There is definitely a "jobs for the boys" culture I have seen. Despite fking things royally people get promotions in the re shuffle.
944fan said:
Vaud - I am seeing what yo mean about the banter and sense of hummour. Previously in senior manager meetings we would quite often complain about our clients and be rude about them. When I did that last week the look I got was like I stood up and windmilled my cock around.
Some thoughts... bear in mind I have been in this company for 10 years.Be careful. The French are complex and disrespect is very poorly viewed.
They are even more "proper" than the a classical "old school" British company.
Healthy banter in the UK does not translate to France. To be honest I find the idea of insulting clients in meetings a bit off. You might be that client next week... maybe I have picked up that from my colleagues.
My advice: learn some French, with some self deprecating humour. Even a few words will help, even if you then apologise and ask to continue in English. Especially learn "tu" vs "vous" (tutoyer vs vouvoyer) as that can still cause discord. If you in a position to, ask to spend some time in the French office.
Do not:
- Criticise the customer, even light heartedly
- Swear for effect
- Be over familiar
- Be arrogant in an American/British kind of way - being confident is fine but don't let that switch to arrogance.
- Depending on how old school they are, a level of deference when talking to them or calling - "could I speak to Mr XXX" rather than "Could I speak to Tom"
- Respect holiday time and weekends
- Ask politely about family, holidays
- Nuances many be lost in English to French. It can pay to slow down, use clearer, unambiguous statements, etc. If you have a strong accent, try to moderate it. It may be that they are only following 90% of what you are saying and the important 10% is lost slightly.
Even if you just do a few of the above you may be differently viewed.
TL;DR - pretend the martians are now running the company and have a limited grasp of English and how your company runs and adjust your behaviour to match. Because they are martians and they run the company.
Vaud said:
To be honest I find the idea of insulting clients in meetings a bit off. You might be that client next week... maybe I have picked up that from my colleagues.
Fair point. Although you haven't met some of our clients. I will NEVER be that client!Put Duolingo on my phone and practicing some French already.
I hope the respecting weekends and holidays thing spreads. The number of times I have been disturbed on a day off is huge.
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