Lgv licence

[karona]

Sadly All that jazz hits the nail on the head. I started agency work for a certain courier company, taking an 18 tonner between Edinburgh and Perth, then went full time with them. Time pressures meant that rules were broken every day just to keep my job, and because I had to cross the fked Road Bridge four times a shift, I was starting at 4 am, and finishing at 8 pm, five days a week, depending on the weather.

Driving a bus would be bliss, compared to agency work

[All that jazz]

VolvoT5 said:

All that jazz said:

Which would be great if there actually was a driver shortage, but there isn't. Do you see supermarket shelves empty on a daily basis or read stories about it in the tabloids daily, or are HGV driver wages increasingly exponetially in an attempt to stem this alleged undersupply issue?

...

Fair enough. But the thing is every industry I've researched there are almost identical stories of high stress, low pay, worsening conditions and complaints of 'it is not how it used to be'. Assuming someone is unemployed like OP at present, what route are they supposed to go down in terms of retraining?

Or is the job market now like the property market - as in if you aren't 'on it' already you are stuck at the bottom for life?

As OP has the offer of free / cheap training then surely it can't be a bad thing to take advantage of that?

Sure, take advantage if it's being put on the table, but go into it with your eyes open and realise there's no such thing as a free lunch and so in exchange you'll very likely be doing 70hrs+ per week for not much above NMW, expected to sleep in the truck 4 nights and possibly run illegal to get the job done too.

Things don't really improve once you have the magical 2 years experience either.

I'll stress again : young pup with no ties - give it a try if you really want to. Wife/kids/mortgage/financial commitments? Forget it - you'll quickly grow to hate it and you'll get that stressed out with it you'll make yourself ill, plus your marriage will soon be over if you do any nights out.

[VolvoT5]

All that jazz said:

Sure, take advantage if it's being put on the table, but go into it with your eyes open and realise there's no such thing as a free lunch and so in exchange you'll very likely be doing 70hrs+ per week for not much above NMW, expected to sleep in the truck 4 nights and possibly run illegal to get the job done too.

...

I can't argue with what you are saying re: the conditions as I have no personal experience in the area. My general question/point still stands though - and that is what alternative careers don't involve (at least initially) long hours / st pay / poor conditions these days? Everyone from starbucks barista to consultant doctor seems to be complaining of very similar issues.

It is easy for those either in or retired from an industry to list all the problems to dissuade others from joining...... For those unemployed or looking to retrain reading any kind of discussion forum or job site will fill you with enough negativity to put you off trying anything!

[Super Slo Mo]

anothernameitist said:

What class, is that up to 7.5t

Up to wherever the legal limit (44t usually) is and whether or not he does just the Category C or goes all the way and gets his cat CE.

LGV is the 'new' name for HGV, despite it changing 19 years ago.

[Robertj21a]

VolvoT5 said:

I can't argue with what you are saying re: the conditions as I have no personal experience in the area. My general question/point still stands though - and that is what alternative careers don't involve (at least initially) long hours / st pay / poor conditions these days? Everyone from starbucks barista to consultant doctor seems to be complaining of very similar issues.

It is easy for those either in or retired from an industry to list all the problems to dissuade others from joining...... For those unemployed or looking to retrain reading any kind of discussion forum or job site will fill you with enough negativity to put you off trying anything!

Very true, quite agree.

Anyone starting a new job/career knows that it will be hard work. Not only learning the job, adjusting home life/sleep if necessary and long hours but also the fact that you're still the 'newie' having to prove themselves. However, the employer may well appreciate the fresh new talent and is probably fed up with the old timers moaning about everything.

[All that jazz]

Robertj21a said:

VolvoT5 said:

I can't argue with what you are saying re: the conditions as I have no personal experience in the area. My general question/point still stands though - and that is what alternative careers don't involve (at least initially) long hours / st pay / poor conditions these days? Everyone from starbucks barista to consultant doctor seems to be complaining of very similar issues.

It is easy for those either in or retired from an industry to list all the problems to dissuade others from joining...... For those unemployed or looking to retrain reading any kind of discussion forum or job site will fill you with enough negativity to put you off trying anything!

Very true, quite agree.

Anyone starting a new job/career knows that it will be hard work. Not only learning the job, adjusting home life/sleep if necessary and long hours but also the fact that you're still the 'newie' having to prove themselves. However, the employer may well appreciate the fresh new talent and is probably fed up with the old timers moaning about everything.

Yeah the employers love naive fresh faces as they don't argue back when they tell them they've got another job to do after just coming back from a 13hr shift...

[chevy55]

karona said:

Sadly All that jazz hits the nail on the head. I started agency work for a certain courier company, taking an 18 tonner between Edinburgh and Perth, then went full time with them. Time pressures meant that rules were broken every day just to keep my job, and because I had to cross the fked Road Bridge four times a shift, I was starting at 4 am, and finishing at 8 pm, five days a week, depending on the weather.

Driving a bus would be bliss, compared to agency work

This is the problem with the industry, there's always some idiot driver that will break the law and companies that encourage it just to get work at a pittance rate, is it worth it with higher fines than you'd get for robbery and even the risk of prison. If you all said no then eventually things would have to change.

[All that jazz]

VolvoT5 said:

All that jazz said:

Sure, take advantage if it's being put on the table, but go into it with your eyes open and realise there's no such thing as a free lunch and so in exchange you'll very likely be doing 70hrs+ per week for not much above NMW, expected to sleep in the truck 4 nights and possibly run illegal to get the job done too.

...

I can't argue with what you are saying re: the conditions as I have no personal experience in the area. My general question/point still stands though - and that is what alternative careers don't involve (at least initially) long hours / st pay / poor conditions these days? Everyone from starbucks barista to consultant doctor seems to be complaining of very similar issues.

It is easy for those either in or retired from an industry to list all the problems to dissuade others from joining...... For those unemployed or looking to retrain reading any kind of discussion forum or job site will fill you with enough negativity to put you off trying anything!

When you find the answer to what these magic utopia careers are, do let us all know please.

The bottom line is that unless you're prepared to put in the leg work to study and get degrees and qualifications so you can have the jobs that pay good money for not a right lot of effort you'll always be stuck (at least to some point) in the long hours / st pay / poor conditions loop.

In response to your closing comments, FWIW on a purely personal level I make a healthy income from driving these days but that's only because I got out of the dead-end employee market and set myself up as a business. I now run as a VAT regd ltd co with public liability insurance and also provide £10k of negligence cover to anyone I drive for (no chance of getting in with any of the bigger places without it). I charge what the agencies charge but with the added bonus of them getting the same face each time from someone who has a good repute locally. These days I'm never short of work but my situation is very rare to see as the driver negligence insurance requirement stops most drivers dead in their tracks and they wouldn't be able to deal with the 30-60 day payment terms either, so they stay as employees and constantly moan about pay and conditions on internet forums.

Edited by All that jazz on Sunday 14th February 09:25

[VolvoT5]

All that jazz said:

When you find the answer to what these magic utopia careers are, do let us all know please.

The bottom line is that unless you're prepared to put in the leg work to study and get degrees and qualifications so you can have the jobs that pay good money for not a right lot of effort you'll always be stuck (at least to some point) in the long hours / st pay / poor conditions loop.

In response to your closing comments, FWIW on a purely personal level I make a healthy income from driving these days but that's only because I got out of the dead-end employee market and set myself up as a business. I now run as a VAT regd ltd co with public liability insurance and also provide £10k of negligence cover to anyone I drive for (no chance of getting in with any of the bigger places without it). I charge what the agencies charge but with the added bonus of them getting the same face each time from someone who has a good repute locally. These days I'm never short of work but my situation is very rare to see as the driver negligence insurance requirement stops most drivers dead in their tracks and they wouldn't be able to deal with the 30-60 day payment terms either, so they stay as employees and constantly moan about pay and conditions on internet forums.

It sounds to me you are just confirming my thoughts on the issue. There are no 'utopia careers' as you put it and everyone has to start at the bottom at least initially. You describe is how you have worked from the bottom and then established yourself as a successful business, yet you seem to be discouraging others from thinking of doing the same because they will have to take crap work to start off with? So I don't quite understand your agenda to be honest.

As for degrees and qualifications leading to easy for work and good money...... well specific vocational degrees maybe, but I know a few people with good degrees (even in STEM subjects) that still can't get on in the jobs market and are working average paid jobs and often are expected to do silly amounts of unpaid overtime because they are 'professionals'. The only difference I can see is that they get to put poncey sounding job titles on the end of their emails and pay back their student loan for the next 30 years.

[timster]

Thanks for the advice folks

[All that jazz]

VolvoT5 said:

All that jazz said:

When you find the answer to what these magic utopia careers are, do let us all know please.

The bottom line is that unless you're prepared to put in the leg work to study and get degrees and qualifications so you can have the jobs that pay good money for not a right lot of effort you'll always be stuck (at least to some point) in the long hours / st pay / poor conditions loop.

In response to your closing comments, FWIW on a purely personal level I make a healthy income from driving these days but that's only because I got out of the dead-end employee market and set myself up as a business. I now run as a VAT regd ltd co with public liability insurance and also provide £10k of negligence cover to anyone I drive for (no chance of getting in with any of the bigger places without it). I charge what the agencies charge but with the added bonus of them getting the same face each time from someone who has a good repute locally. These days I'm never short of work but my situation is very rare to see as the driver negligence insurance requirement stops most drivers dead in their tracks and they wouldn't be able to deal with the 30-60 day payment terms either, so they stay as employees and constantly moan about pay and conditions on internet forums.

It sounds to me you are just confirming my thoughts on the issue. There are no 'utopia careers' as you put it and everyone has to start at the bottom at least initially. You describe is how you have worked from the bottom and then established yourself as a successful business, yet you seem to be discouraging others from thinking of doing the same because they will have to take crap work to start off with? So I don't quite understand your agenda to be honest.

Because, as I've said, mine is a very rare case. It was a very long and hard road to get to where I am with a lot of obstacles in the way to overcome, such as back-hander arrangements that haulage firm transport managers have with agencies to ensure that their phone rings first and not another agency. It's not just about having a good reputation and keeping the wagon shiny side up, there's all the social aspect of getting 'in' with the right people in order to make it work and believe me that's a lot easier said than done. It's a lot of hassle for not a right lot more income, but it works for me.

The vast majority of people coming into this industry won't be interested in any of that and just want a job driving wagons. For those people they can expect crap pay rates, very long hours, high likelihood of living in the truck all week and high stress levels with zero career progression opportunities, ergo I don't recommend it to anyone if you actually want any kind of life outside work. You would be far far better finding a trade that actually pays well then getting yourself qualified to do it. Don't ask me what they are because I'm not a careers advisor; get off your arse and do your own research and you will reap what you will sow. No-one's going to hand it to you on a plate.