Remuneration & Expenses on Secondment

[romeogolf]

For two years I've been based in Hampshire. The company I work for are opening a new location in Belfast and have asked me to go and be a key part of the mobilisation team. This includes staying/living in Belfast over a period of 6 months either 3-nights-a-week or week-on, week-off or some combination. After this I will return to my regular role, albeit with a remote "mentoring" capacity for the new site/team.

I say it's "early" stages in discussions, but I'm flying out Sunday evening for my first meeting with the client on Monday so it's actually moving quite quickly. I have a further meeting with our divisional board on 9th May to discuss 'details' and remuneration.

This is the first time I've had this type of responsibility and I've not lived away 'on work' before.

Could anyone who has already done this offer any advice or guidance?

Things which have been discussed:

• I'll be living/staying in a 2-bed serviced flat paid for by the company. Second room for other managers who will be visiting.
• They're almost definitely providing a hire car.

Things which I've thought of:

• Who pays my day-to-day costs such as food, laundry, social travel (if I somehow make friends over there).
• I have a gym membership at home. Will they pay for an equal membership in Belfast or contribute towards one?
• How often will I be travelling each way. Will my partner be allowed to visit me and/or have a return flight paid for every so often?
• Additional pay for my time/effort/energy while there. Not just for the role itself but just "being away from home". There has been talk of an end of project bonus rather than additional pay during my time there, but I feel my preference is for increased pay for the project instead in case it runs over and also to help with my additional living costs.

[StevieBee]

Different companies will have different systems in place so these are questions you need to be discussing with your employer.

The most usual 'general' approach is to pay the employee a per-diem; a daily allowance for general expenditure and it's up to the employer to either stick within this or go over and cover the additional expenditure themselves.

Given they are providing you accommodation and a car, it would be highly unlikely they'd pay for your social life as well - they don't pay for this at home after all.

[Crusoe]

Full relocation package for some longer projects (paid house/car/utilities, two return flights a year and working away from home allowance £20 extra a day). For shorter month or two type trips expect fully expensed apartment, rental car and living allowance £20 per day and/or some expenses like meals/phone etc paid. Depend on the industry and the level of expectation for your pay grade though.

[edc]

You may want to check the BIK status of those additional benefits.

[romeogolf]

StevieBee said:

Different companies will have different systems in place so these are questions you need to be discussing with your employer.

Sorry forgot to clarify that this is the first time we've opened a site 'overseas' as such and had to have an employee relocate like this. Usually they put you up overnight in a Premier Inn once a week and pay for your dinner/breakfast and mileage. As this is more 'permanent' they've not reached a final decision and it's potentially up for negotiation.

StevieBee said:

Given they are providing you accommodation and a car, it would be highly unlikely they'd pay for your social life as well - they don't pay for this at home after all.

Agreed that they should only pay for additional costs, but then if they agreed to pay "all" costs, I might negotiate a lower salary bump for the project, you know? Was really just looking for ideas of what others have experienced.

[romeogolf]

edc said:

You may want to check the BIK status of those additional benefits.

Yes, this is one of the reasons it will be a 2-bed flat rather than a 1-bed. Apparently this means it's not for my exclusive use and thus not liable for BIK.

Will be doing most negotiations on this with our finance director so he'll know the ins/outs

[schmunk]

romeogolf said:

Yes, this is one of the reasons it will be a 2-bed flat rather than a 1-bed. Apparently this means it's not for my exclusive use and thus not liable for BIK.

Will be doing most negotiations on this with our finance director so he'll know the ins/outs

If it's accommodation provided for your necessary attendance at a temporary workplace (generally meaning for less than 24 months, with the expectation of continuing your employment at a different location thereafter), then there's no taxable BIK anyway. The "not for exclusive use" is a red herring.

Similarly, if you are incurring subsistence expenses whilst at your temporary location, you can claim a tax relief for this, so keep your food receipts. In practice, your employer may pay you a fixed per diem allowance to cover this, which will be treated as not taxable through payroll, but you may still need to substantiate this with receipts at a later date, particularly if you need to file a tax return.

Payment/reimbursement of your costs of commuting in Belfast is again tax exempt, but provision of a car for general use will be taxed in the normal way, as will provision of a gym (unless it's on-site).

Your travel to/from Belfast is tax exempt. Your spouse can have two tax exempt trips per year and after this they're taxable.

Generally, if there is a tax / NI liability arising from your secondment, your employer should agree to pay for this by way of a 'gross up', given that the expense/benefit is arising because they've asked you to be there.

Edited by schmunk on Friday 22 April 11:56

[romeogolf]

Cheers Schmunk, will ask about this.

[Mr Pointy]

One aspect I would be wary of is the two bedroom apartment. You could end up sharing your life with random blokes who you may or may not get on with. Will there be two bathrooms? If not what are you going to do when the other occupant doesn't see the need to clean the shower of his stray pubes? You will be working with people all day,do you really want to be with then more hours per day than you wife/partner?

I would insist on a single occupancy flat with a decent per diem. Other issues:

Car parking charges if you leave your car at the airport.
When are you travelling? during the working day or in your own time? Over six months that could be a lot of unpaid hours spent travelling.

Essentially I'd want to get agreement that anything spent in the course of working away that you wouldn't have to if you were working at home gets recompensed.

[Olivera]

romeogolf said:

I'll be living/staying in a 2-bed serviced flat paid for by the company. Second room for other managers who will be visiting.

A shared flat sounds suitable as student accommodation, but I'd be expecting either exclusive use of a flat/apartment or my own hotel room.

As others have said, a reasonable per diem expense rate of say £50 per day you should cover everything else.

[schmunk]

Olivera said:

As others have said, a reasonable per diem expense rate of say £50 per day you should cover everything else.

That's much higher than most employers pay - especially for Belfast, where stuff is relatively cheap. £25/day is more likely.

[elanfan]

Regarding the flat, the 2 bedroom idea is great for the bik aspect but you
they should value your privacy highly. You are entitled o leave your gruntled on the floor and washing up in the sink if you want to without having to be on best behaviour out of work hours and/or ta liking shop. Tell them they should put visiting staff in the local Travelodge!

I'd also be angling for a permanent promotion as a part of the deal - putting your life on hold for 6 months should merit a reward as presumably you are bringing profit to the business. Don't be blind to the fact that whilst you are away others will be pushing forward their case for promotion or stepping in your shoes. Many years ago I had a Company move -only 50 miles but I hated it. If took me almost 3 years to get a move back and in the meantime people I had trained had moved up into my old role making the move an expensive mistake.

[schmunk]

elanfan said:

Regarding the flat, the 2 bedroom idea is great for the bik aspect

To reiterate, this is absolute bks. With your move as described there is no taxable benefit, therefore no advantage to (up to) halving it by having someone stay with you.

That's not to say it's not a good idea for your employer to lease a two bedroom flat for the flexibility, if you're willing to share.

[GT03ROB]

I've done similar before, but to Istanbul.

Accommodation : try & get just for yourself, sharing will grind on you after a while
Expenses : normally paid as a per diem for the UK around £30/day, what you do with that is up to you.
Salary uplift : may be worth pushing for, 10% is reasonable but needs to be balanced against the next point
Travel : Firstly flights, what do you want weekly, every other week or monthly? Weekly sounds good but can become a pain every week. Secondly what are the arrangements for travel? Fly out Monday morning back Friday afternoon? The flights were longer but I used to do it every other week leaving Friday afternoon from Istanbul returning Sunday evening

A lot will depend on you personal circumstances. Key points are though: you need to be comfortable when away; you should not be out of pocket; don't let it damage you personal life; don't expect to make a huge profit out of it.

[Vaud]

GT03ROB said:

Key points are though: you need to be comfortable when away; you should not be out of pocket; don't let it damage you personal life; don't expect to make a huge profit out of it.

This is the crux of it. I'm looking be seconded at the moment to the US, and at the moment the numbers just don't add up for me... (I would be worse off)

[ClaphamGT3]

One thing to bear in mind Rob is that there is still a lot of very nasty prejudice over there (my family are from that part of the world and I'm there at least monthly for work)

Just think carefully whether you want to base yourself in an environment that has an outlook on EDI from the early seventies.

[Evanivitch]

I was of the impression that person diem had recently changed? I.e. that's what my employer has just said.

Now instead of £45 per diem we have about £25 with receipt of some incurred cost at eat meal point (of any value) or we now have to claim actuals.

[brickwall]

I'd echo a lot of the comments above. Here are the things on my mind whenever I consider an overseas posting:

Accommodation
- You should not be forced to share with a work colleague if you don't want to.
- Who will pick the flat? I'd want to make sure it's in a good location and in good condition
- Who will be responsible for all the admin/costs associated with the property? Taxes, service charges, utilities, cleaning?

Travel
- How often will they pay for you to fly home?
- Will flights be economy or business class, flexible or fixed?
- What standard will the hire car be?

Expenses
- Will there be a per diem (if so what is it), or refunded on production of receipts?
- If it's receipts-based, what are the limits/exclusions in the policy?

Salary
- Will you receive an uplift in salary? Many would argue that it's a significant inconvenience and hardship to be away from home for long periods, and that you should be recompensed for this. I'd say 10% is far from an unreasonable ask.
- (I don't think relevant in your case, but...) Will the company cover costs to ensure I abide by all the appropriate visa and tax laws? Will they provide advice to make sure I don't get stuffed on taxation across jurisdictions?

[romeogolf]

Thanks for the replies - Definite food for thought and ideas to mull over.

Spooked that ClaphamGT3 knows my name... Oh, it's on my profile.

• In terms of sharing with someone it's not an issue. Visiting managers are likely to be "once every few weeks" rather than a permanent feature and that doesn't bother me too much.
• I will be involved in choosing the apartment. There have already been jokes about me and one of the senior team going flat-hunting and we've been nicknamed 'the odd couple'.

Other points raised are all things I will need to discuss, so thank you for bringing them up. A 10% salary uplift would be great - I really had no idea what to expect but 10% is a figure I'm comfortable with. Will see if they offer more to start with.

Will also need to discuss the per diem vs expenses issue and see what they suggest. I prefer the idea of a per diem as it gives me more control, but again it depends on the rate offered.

Thanks again

[elanfan]

Well? What happened?