Do some employers just like wasting people's time?
Discussion
Rule of thumb is to only move for a minimum 20% improvement of total remuneration package. Clearly, lower offers have to be balanced against other 'soft' improvements such as shorter commute or a move from an expensive area to live to a less expensive one. This increase is primarily designed to cover costs and risk of a move as well as being recognition of one's growing skills and thus market worth.
If in your case OP they are just trying their luck before eventually agreeing to a better package, one could be forgiven for thinking would one wish to work for such an outfit? Good luck!
If in your case OP they are just trying their luck before eventually agreeing to a better package, one could be forgiven for thinking would one wish to work for such an outfit? Good luck!
Move on. Some people are idiots. One thing, if they are idiots now then idiots they will remain. I fell foul of this last year, had a client who knew my rate, had me in for a chat. Offered less than a third. Got laughed at, or the agency did. Eventually after much haggling and it being a quiet time I agreed a rate 20% shy of my usual. Bloody awful, I lasted less than 2 weeks, and I had hell on getting paid. They are now on my sh t list. Move on.
elanfan said:
Bill them for her expenses getting to the interview and for the time spent on the project they set her, maybe they'd learn a lesson.
This. Is it possible they never intended to offer her the job, but just wanted some free design work done by somebody they couldn't afford?I think it may be. I know of a firm locally which has run a recruitment campaign for the last three years, using the same sort of "prepare a presentation/work this case study" type approach; 8-10 hours effort for each person, plus a day long interview/presentation session.
Each time someone goes along they get another bit of the project completed ... still nobody in post.
Each time someone goes along they get another bit of the project completed ... still nobody in post.
It's also possible that they just didn't know what the "market rate" was for such skilled work and wanted to try their luck and see what happens. Whether this pisses you off or not is down to you I suppose, but it's been common in my line of work (auditing) for years, and I must have had this 3 or 4 times in the past 5 years.
If that really is their budget, then now they know what they need to aim for next year. I would say never burn bridges, but perhaps that is industry-specific? They may come back 6 months later with an amazing offer once the budget constraints have eased. It can happen.
If that really is their budget, then now they know what they need to aim for next year. I would say never burn bridges, but perhaps that is industry-specific? They may come back 6 months later with an amazing offer once the budget constraints have eased. It can happen.
Jefferson Steelflex said:
It's also possible that they just didn't know what the "market rate" was for such skilled work and wanted to try their luck and see what happens. Whether this pisses you off or not is down to you I suppose, but it's been common in my line of work (auditing) for years, and I must have had this 3 or 4 times in the past 5 years.
They knew the "market rate" from the first interview when his wife told them what she was on, so why proceed when they knew she was well above their budget? I don't follow the logic of "trying their luck" by offering her massively less than she was already earning?Flooble said:
They knew the "market rate" from the first interview when his wife told them what she was on, so why proceed when they knew she was well above their budget? I don't follow the logic of "trying their luck" by offering her massively less than she was already earning?
I know of some people in the design world who will priorities portfolio / life style over salary. Mostly thanks to a well-off partner or allowance from daddy...Many years ago I had a similar experience with Waitrose. I was a branch manager with Unwins wine merchants and a new Waitrose was opening 12 miles away - I applied for their wine and spirit department manager role. There was a group interview and then a one-to one interview a week or so later. I was offered the role of wine advisor and the ridiculously low rate of about £15K! I was furious with them for wasting my time. They rang later that day to offer a higher payment, but it was still a lot less than I was already on. The commute would have been a lot longer too with no parking on site.
Flooble said:
They knew the "market rate" from the first interview when his wife told them what she was on, so why proceed when they knew she was well above their budget? I don't follow the logic of "trying their luck" by offering her massively less than she was already earning?
Doesn't everyone exaggerate their current salary?I was a bit cheesed off with the role I was in, so when an alternative came across my desk with a suitable salary I jumped at the chance.
Did the first interview and they liked me I was asked back to do a presentation (on changing wheel) and a panel interview.
That went well and I get invited back again to see director of pre-sales. Who says there are not going to offer me the role but can I come back as see the MD and sales director as they can see a really important role in the Co for me with my skills/experience.
It goes quiet.
Get asked in and see the head honchos, very positive.
It goes quiet again.
Eventually I get told that the role they had created for me I wasn't going to get as I would have been too expensive.
At least they didn't offer me less money.
Funny way to run a business though.
Did the first interview and they liked me I was asked back to do a presentation (on changing wheel) and a panel interview.
That went well and I get invited back again to see director of pre-sales. Who says there are not going to offer me the role but can I come back as see the MD and sales director as they can see a really important role in the Co for me with my skills/experience.
It goes quiet.
Get asked in and see the head honchos, very positive.
It goes quiet again.
Eventually I get told that the role they had created for me I wasn't going to get as I would have been too expensive.
At least they didn't offer me less money.
Funny way to run a business though.
hornetrider said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Are they going to use this 'homework'? Have they pulled a fast one?Also the offering me far less than I'm on has happened to me a couple of times but I just see the interview process as a learning experience, see how other places work, try to glean as much info as I can in the process.
The thing that really irritates me is recruiters wanting me to speak to them on the phone about a role, they spend 30minutes going round the houses about a role that turns out to be worlds away from what I actually do and id never get.. Why don't they know?
Sorry, but I'd say that ship's sailed. They won't pay any costs because where's the contract? You turned up of your own accord without mentioning costs, you offered the presentation at the time without mentioning costs or intellectual property, so it looks to me like you gave them a gift. You can't go back after the fact and bill someone for a gift simply because they've behaved like a tw*t, can you?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
From my own experiences this kind of thing is quite common and yes it is f
king annoying. I was sort-of head-hunted for a job a while back (which is quite rare in my line) but turned out that the manager knew the manager at another place I'd worked at before the worked dried up and word got back that I was good at what I do etc. Discussions and meetings took place where I put my rates on the table and all relevant credentials and I was told it was all good to go, no problem with terms etc and discussion progressed on to the finer details of the job which required quite a complex plan putting in place. Got it all laid out and organised and good to go from the following Monday, just needed my T&Cs signing off and all sorted. Friday afternoon I called by to get it squared up and that's when they decide that I'm too expensive and will need to lower my rates 
. Needless to say a rather heated discussion ensued which resulted in me walking out not amused by having my time wasted.The following week I had managed to get work lined up elsewhere at short notice but on the Thursday I got a call out of the blue from an agency that I'd never had anything to do with. The conversation basically went that they'd been contacted by the company to find them someone to do the job and they'd "heard" that I had originally planned to do it but there'd been some "misunderstandings"
and I'd "gone away to have a think about it". After putting them in the loop with the real story they then asked me how much I'd want to do it so I told them I'd want the same whilst also pointing out that if I was "too expensive" for them direct then there's no chance they'd go for it with their cut on top. "Let us worry about that" he says to me. 30 mins later he rings me to tell me they can work with that and to send through my T&Cs for signing and to start there on Monday. 
I did that job every week for 10 months and I know from my sources that the agency were charging them just under £100 extra per week on top of what I was charging. So why not just use me direct as per original plan? Makes no sense. I was quite happy to go along with it as my T&Cs to the company were 30 days payment yet I had the agency on 7 day terms and it was there in my account every Friday morning without fail.
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