Teaching in the UK?

[rosbif77]

I'm currently an expat in France ( see my other thread), but would like more precise feedback about the actual state of education/teaching in the UK. There seems to be a lot of contradictory information in the media about what is actually happening.

I understand the current government wants all schools to join a MAT( multi-academy trust) by 2022!

What exactly is a MAT?
How are MAT's created and by who?
Would schools lose their legal independence ?
Who actually owns/runs these MAT's?
What exactly does performance related pay mean? Who gets it and how?
Why are there posters claiming that teachers can earn up to £60k if record numbers of them want to leave?
Why do so many schools have TA's if there's a funding crisis? ( here in France TA's don't exist.
Why are record numbers of graduates entering the profession if the job is so tough?

Finally, why is there so much inspection/monitoring of teachers yet in other highly skilled professions there doesn't seem to be the equivalent of OFSTED?




So what exactly is going on? Is it worth entering the profession, or in my case re-entering?

Edited by rosbif77 on Wednesday 27th April 12:15

[griffin dai]

Both parents were teaches.....I think I'd rather get shot at.....

[devnull]

All i have seen is that Academies are run like businesses, with kids being the customers. Staff can and will be "managed out of the business" far quicker than they have been in state run schools.

I'm not sure any of us asked for this privatisation of our school system in this country?

My missus is a teacher, she does it because shes loves the essence of it - actually teaching and developing the kids. But the work load is insane.

I'd rather eat razor blades than go into teaching.

Edited by devnull on Wednesday 27th April 17:58

[Flooble]

Given the choice between teaching and clearing land mines, I'd take the mines ...

[rosbif77]

Who actually can create a MAT?
I thought all educational establishments and the land that the schools are built on is public state controlled?

[rosbif77]

devnull said:

All i have seen is that Academies are run like businesses, with kids being the customers. Staff can and will be "managed out of the business" far quicker than they have been in state run schools.

I'm not sure any of us asked for this privatisation of our school system in this country?

My missus is a teacher, she does it because shes loves the essence of it - actually teaching and developing the kids. But the work load is insane.

I'd rather eat razor blades than go into teaching.

Edited by devnull on Wednesday 27th April 17:58

Isn't anyone concerned about this 'privatisation' ?

[Flooble]

I don't think Eton would be too please at being referred to as "state controlled".

https://www.gov.uk/set-up-free-school

[Pothole]

griffin dai said:

Both parents were teaches.....I think I'd rather get shot at.....

They must be so proud.

[Vaud]

devnull said:

All i have seen is that Academies are run like businesses, with kids being the customers. Staff can and will be "managed out of the business" far quicker than they have been in state run schools.

Good. About time too...

[abucd4]

Vaud said:

Good. About time too...

Education should never be about making a profit.

This week I've been in two meetings in which we threw numbers around on a spreadsheet, choosing which kids were most worthy of extra support i.e. the kids that are closest to achieving 3/4 levels of progress, or contribute to the A*-C in both maths and english figure. SLT argues that this is for the greater good as it pushes up the league tables, securing more pupils for the school, thus more funding, thus helping our pupils, but I struggle with this notion that we should actively not support some pupils as they're not value for money.

Some kids, who potentially could achieve an A or A* if given the right support, and might have already achieved a B for example, are left as they may not contribute to these figures. I'm not even at an academy (yet), but this is exactly what they do on an even larger scale.

Privatisation of our schools is not the answer.

[rog007]

rosbif77 said:

Finally, why is there so much inspection/monitoring of teachers yet in other highly skilled professions there doesn't seem to be the equivalent of OFSTED?

Edited by rosbif77 on Wednesday 27th April 12:15

OFSTED doesn't inspect teachers per se, rather they 'inspect and regulate services that care for children and young people,...', so an OFSTED report is about the provider and not named individuals within it (save possibly for the Head if they determine that leadership is lacking) in order to ensure that the provider is doing a good job. Just as for example MONITOR inspects those organisations who provide healthcare services to ensure they are safe for us to use. Like OFSTED, MONITOR does not inspect individual practitioners, but reports holistically on the providing organisation.

All 'professions' with protected titles do however have 'regulators', but they rarely 'inspect' individuals. They do set standards and take action when individuals are reported to them who are allegedly not complying with those standards: http://www.ecctis.co.uk/UK%20NCP/Individuals/Regul...

Hope that helps

[Vaud]

abucd4 said:

Education should never be about making a profit.

This week I've been in two meetings in which we threw numbers around on a spreadsheet, choosing which kids were most worthy of extra support i.e. the kids that are closest to achieving 3/4 levels of progress, or contribute to the A*-C in both maths and english figure. SLT argues that this is for the greater good as it pushes up the league tables, securing more pupils for the school, thus more funding, thus helping our pupils, but I struggle with this notion that we should actively not support some pupils as they're not value for money.

Some kids, who potentially could achieve an A or A* if given the right support, and might have already achieved a B for example, are left as they may not contribute to these figures. I'm not even at an academy (yet), but this is exactly what they do on an even larger scale.

Privatisation of our schools is not the answer.

Sorry, I was unclear. I meant the part about poor teachers being managed out more quickly. I tend towards your view on privatisation though.

[griffin dai]

Pothole said:

They must be so proud.

Bloody phone ....."teachers"

[pherlopolus]

Flooble said:

Given the choice between teaching and clearing land mines, I'd take the mines ...

And me, wife is a teacher who is lucky to have a husband who is letting her retire at 45. She loved the teaching, it's just the other crap that is the issue.

[rosbif77]

rog007 said:

rosbif77 said:

Finally, why is there so much inspection/monitoring of teachers yet in other highly skilled professions there doesn't seem to be the equivalent of OFSTED?

Edited by rosbif77 on Wednesday 27th April 12:15

OFSTED doesn't inspect teachers per se, rather they 'inspect and regulate services that care for children and young people,...', so an OFSTED report is about the provider and not named individuals within it (save possibly for the Head if they determine that leadership is lacking) in order to ensure that the provider is doing a good job. Just as for example MONITOR inspects those organisations who provide healthcare services to ensure they are safe for us to use. Like OFSTED, MONITOR does not inspect individual practitioners, but reports holistically on the providing organisation.

All 'professions' with protected titles do however have 'regulators', but they rarely 'inspect' individuals. They do set standards and take action when individuals are reported to them who are allegedly not complying with those standards: http://www.ecctis.co.uk/UK%20NCP/Individuals/Regul...

Hope that helps

Yes, thankyou.

Going back to my opening list of questions then, are OFSTED inspections used in assessing which teachers should be awarded performance related pay, or is there another procedure for that?

[Pillskii]

devnull said:

All i have seen is that Academies are run like businesses, with kids being the customers. Staff can and will be "managed out of the business" far quicker than they have been in state run schools.

I'm not sure any of us asked for this privatisation of our school system in this country?

My missus is a teacher, she does it because shes loves the essence of it - actually teaching and developing the kids. But the work load is insane.

I'd rather eat razor blades than go into teaching.

Edited by devnull on Wednesday 27th April 17:58

I hear a lot about teachers' workloads but I admit I am a bit sceptical about it. How many hours is the average teacher actually working a week? How many days holiday do they get a year - it must be significantly more than your average joe private sector employee? Don't forget they are, in the grand scheme of things, fairly well paid (outside of London).

I'm mid-twenties so school wasn't so long ago for me (decent/good school) and I remember there being huge differences in the quality of teaching provided by the 'good' and the 'bad' teachers. Most of the bad teachers were the ones who'd been there for 15-20 years.

[rosbif77]

pherlopolus said:

Flooble said:

Given the choice between teaching and clearing land mines, I'd take the mines ...

And me, wife is a teacher who is lucky to have a husband who is letting her retire at 45. She loved the teaching, it's just the other crap that is the issue.

What exactly is the 'other crap'?
When i was a teacher back in the early 90's we all expected to put in one extra hour/week for every lesson taught. I also remember staying one hour each day after the pupils left for meetings etc.

[rosbif77]

Pillskii said:

devnull said:

All i have seen is that Academies are run like businesses, with kids being the customers. Staff can and will be "managed out of the business" far quicker than they have been in state run schools.

I'm not sure any of us asked for this privatisation of our school system in this country?

My missus is a teacher, she does it because shes loves the essence of it - actually teaching and developing the kids. But the work load is insane.

I'd rather eat razor blades than go into teaching.

Edited by devnull on Wednesday 27th April 17:58

I hear a lot about teachers' workloads but I admit I am a bit sceptical about it. How many hours is the average teacher actually working a week? How many days holiday do they get a year - it must be significantly more than your average joe private sector employee? Don't forget they are, in the grand scheme of things, fairly well paid (outside of London).

I'm mid-twenties so school wasn't so long ago for me (decent/good school) and I remember there being huge differences in the quality of teaching provided by the 'good' and the 'bad' teachers. Most of the bad teachers were the ones who'd been there for 15-20 years.

I guess the longer than average holidays and relatively higher salaries explain the rush for places on teacher training!

[pherlopolus]

rosbif77 said:

What exactly is the 'other crap'?
When i was a teacher back in the early 90's we all expected to put in one extra hour/week for every lesson taught. I also remember staying one hour each day after the pupils left for meetings etc.

my wife was teaching 1 day per week, that day took another day to produce plans to the required standard, then marking.

Most full time teachers I know (who are good or outstanding) are working 2-3 hours a night.

[Flooble]

rosbif77 said:

What exactly is the 'other crap'?
When i was a teacher back in the early 90's we all expected to put in one extra hour/week for every lesson taught. I also remember staying one hour each day after the pupils left for meetings etc.

Depends on if they are conscientious or not. One friend is a teacher and does nothing but the bare minimum hours - he's home just after four and has acres of holiday. Another friend spends a roughly 1:1 ratio of lesson planning to actually delivering and then another 1:1 on marking and writing reports, assessments and so on. e.g. she works straight through "half term break" preparing for the next half term, and the last couple of weeks of each holiday period is spent preparing for the new term.

As with every other profession there are those who coast by on the bare minimum and those who put their heart and soul into it. And everything in between.

But in all cases they have to spend a good part of their waking life surrounded by semi-feral kids, so I can't really complain even about my layabout mate.