Teaching in the UK?
Discussion
pherlopolus said:
Most full time teachers I know (who are good or outstanding) are working 2-3 hours a night.
One particular teacher at "my" school is used as an example of best practice, commended by Ofstead etc etc. He does it all in his 32 hour week. Works damn hard but gets it all done. Not to say he isn't planning or thinking off paper in his own time but that's difficult to stop yourself doing anyway.Others are in at 7:30am and don't leave until 5 then do work at home, weekends, in holidays etc
I think much depends on how you work as a person, how structured and organised you are and how much time is lost working out what you should be doing rather than knowing a getting on and doing it. I know a lot of new teachers at my school find it tough and are mentored by more experienced staff.
21TonyK said:
I think much depends on how you work as a person, how structured and organised you are and how much time is lost working out what you should be doing rather than knowing a getting on and doing it.
It depends also a great deal on what subject you teach. English is particularly labour intensive, especially in terms of marking. PE, not so much!Until recently my OH was an English teacher. I'd rather eat live wasps for every meal.
The amount of coursework that needs marking in some subjects is crazy, a lot of it is submitted as part of the GCSE assessment and isn't just tick-box stuff so it's very time consuming.
To make things more stupid, they have finally twigged that coursework done at home could be written by just about anyone so it has to be done under supervision. They run after-school classes where the kids can complete the work, guess who has to staff them
.
WTF was wrong with learning stuff then taking an exam?
ts has tried to burn the school down.
Teaching a typical example of how bureaucracy can mess up a perfectly good system staffed (for the most part) by caring and motivated people. Admin and testing takes up more time than teaching, discipline is banned as it's against the kids human rights and parents are more likely to support the kids than the school.
In conclusion, I'd be with the guys walking swiftly across the minefield that leads away from teaching.
To make things more stupid, they have finally twigged that coursework done at home could be written by just about anyone so it has to be done under supervision. They run after-school classes where the kids can complete the work, guess who has to staff them
. WTF was wrong with learning stuff then taking an exam?
21TonyK said:
Others are in at 7:30am and don't leave until 5 then do work at home, weekends, in holidays etc
Leave at 5? Only if one of the little sts has tried to burn the school down.rosbif77 said:
Why are there posters claiming that teachers can earn up to £60k if record numbers of them want to leave?
£60k for a "normal" teacher? Maybe there are examples of extra pay and bonuses paid in difficult situations (where the school/kids/area are so bad they just can't get the staff) but my Mrs is a high school Assistant Head and doesn't get anywhere near that.Teaching a typical example of how bureaucracy can mess up a perfectly good system staffed (for the most part) by caring and motivated people. Admin and testing takes up more time than teaching, discipline is banned as it's against the kids human rights and parents are more likely to support the kids than the school.
In conclusion, I'd be with the guys walking swiftly across the minefield that leads away from teaching.
rosbif77 said:
Forgive me if i'm wrong but why is the government forcing all schools to join a MAT?
Is it to drive up standards and offer a better quality of education?
or is it a backdoor way of privatizing all education?
What about 'if it ain't broken don't fix it'?
It clearly IS broke, as we seem to be producing kids with (allegedly) better qualifications who are increasing ill-prepared for the work environment.Is it to drive up standards and offer a better quality of education?
or is it a backdoor way of privatizing all education?
What about 'if it ain't broken don't fix it'?
Whether this is the way to fix it is another matter.
Edited by sidicks on Saturday 30th April 10:37
mrtwisty said:
It depends also a great deal on what subject you teach. English is particularly labour intensive, especially in terms of marking. PE, not so much!
Until recently my OH was an English teacher. I'd rather eat live wasps for every meal.
This, very much. Until recently my OH was an English teacher. I'd rather eat live wasps for every meal.
I'm an engineer, if I need to I work late or go in on days off. But, when I leave work it's forgotten. I don't carry piles of stuff home, or spend my holidays planning for when I'm in work next.
I'd say about 50% of all the school holidays is spent doing some school work. That's not necessarily a full do, but it's still always there, niggling.
Wasps, mine clearance, presenting to VPs every goddamn day over teaching.
21TonyK said:
Others are in at 7:30am and don't leave until 5 then do work at home, weekends, in holidays etc
I'm this, but I'm very rarely working at home, (if I am it's only preparing assemblies on PowerPoint or preparing for interviews/meetings etc), and I'm about as good as you're going to find in the profession. It comes down to how you manage your time; the teachers complaining they can't get everything done are often the ones sat down complaining they can't get everything done, instead of getting everything done. I prepare for the next day before I leave in the evening so I can get working straight away when I'm in and utilitise the simple assistance of a pencil and paper to create little week-long to-do lists. I hold two TLRs in school and manage to get everything completed to an above average standard - at a work rate that's not broaching out into clearly unsustainable territory. What helps is that I really like the job and the school, and I get along with everyone there really well so asking for assistance is never a problem. You'll have problems with SLT when they cotton on to the fact you're not very effective, and that's it. You don't get managed out for being good.Cue my lot failing dismally in the summer exams and my return to the thread to say how awful teaching is and how nasty my boss is.
21TonyK said:
Forget the adverts of 60K
National average salary:
Primary: 36252
Secondary: 38246
A look at the blue indicates what you could expect.
Don't forget you need to add circa £10k to those numbers to approximate the value of the DB pension benefit if you are comparing with a private sector role!National average salary:
Primary: 36252
Secondary: 38246
A look at the blue indicates what you could expect.
sidicks said:
Don't forget you need to add circa £10k to those numbers to approximate the value of the DB pension benefit if you are comparing with a private sector role!
Wouldn't that mean that teachers are getting about 25-30%additional pension contribution on top of salary?? (£10k on top of a £36-38k average). Is that right?
Defined Benefit - i.e. guaranteed salary index linked. So yes, it's a huge amount more than a Defined Contribution scheme would be.
I have no idea if teachers are actually still on a DB scheme, nor what the contribution rates are. But I'd expect a scheme matching the old LGPS type payouts to need about 30% contributions.
I have no idea if teachers are actually still on a DB scheme, nor what the contribution rates are. But I'd expect a scheme matching the old LGPS type payouts to need about 30% contributions.
21TonyK said:
Forget the adverts of 60K
National average salary:
Primary: 36252
Secondary: 38246
A look at the blue indicates what you could expect.
I work 24h per week at the sixth form plus 2-3h week at my second job. I take home 1850euros from the main job. That's after 11 years teaching in the same private sixth form. I've never had a pay rise and in fact my weekly hours were cut this year so my monthly pay dropped by 250 euros. I also work 14 Saturdays a year on average (one year i did 20!!!), which just like my teaching hours is paid on an hourly basis. Most Saturdays aren't paid (school open day/invigilating mock exams/special events etc).National average salary:
Primary: 36252
Secondary: 38246
A look at the blue indicates what you could expect.
Daily commute:2h30. Work day 8.30-6.30pm.
Plus 1-2 h marking/lesson planning per evening.
I also do private tutoring to pay my fuel bills(2-4 a week), plus mark exams for an EFL exam centre (1 euro per essay!).
With all the above i can pay my rent/food/household bills/my children's school fees. Anything else (private pension/cinema/days out) comes out of savings!!!
Oh yes i nearly forgot:
I got a pension estimate last month. On current salary i can retire at 77 with the minimum wage!
Edited by rosbif77 on Sunday 1st May 07:43
Edited by rosbif77 on Sunday 1st May 07:48
Edited by rosbif77 on Sunday 1st May 07:58
Sorry i forgot to add. In addition to my 24h/week teaching i also prepare curriculum programs/coursework/prepare students to pass UK university entrance exams/ give extra revision lessons for gifted students/organise school trips/run history club/prepare students for SAT's/create history resources for colleagues, all of which are unpaid!!!
rosbif77 said:
Forgive me if i'm wrong but why is the government forcing all schools to join a MAT?
Is it to drive up standards and offer a better quality of education?
or is it a backdoor way of privatizing all education?
What about 'if it ain't broken don't fix it'?
the UK school system has never been right , the ideolgical assaults on the tripartite system introduced in the '44 education act show that, plus the confusion the left and apathetic teachers have with comprehensive education and dumbed down lowest common denominato education . Is it to drive up standards and offer a better quality of education?
or is it a backdoor way of privatizing all education?
What about 'if it ain't broken don't fix it'?
there is also a confusion ( driven by none teaching unions who have a lot to lose by the dismantling of the LEAs lumbering dinosaurs) between education provided free at the point of use by the state and the state owning / micromanaging the means of delivery - same the Unison driven rhetoric in Health
rosbif77 said:
I work 24h per week at the sixth form plus 2-3h week at my second job. I take home 1850euros from the main job. That's after 11 years teaching in the same private sixth form. I've never had a pay rise and in fact my weekly hours were cut this year so my monthly pay dropped by 250 euros. I also work 14 Saturdays a year on average (one year i did 20!!!), which just like my teaching hours is paid on an hourly basis. Most Saturdays aren't paid (school open day/invigilating mock exams/special events etc).
Daily commute:2h30. Work day 8.30-6.30pm.
Plus 1-2 h marking/lesson planning per evening.
I also do private tutoring to pay my fuel bills(2-4 a week), plus mark exams for an EFL exam centre (1 euro per essay!).
With all the above i can pay my rent/food/household bills/my children's school fees. Anything else (private pension/cinema/days out) comes out of savings!!!
Oh yes i nearly forgot:
I got a pension estimate last month. On current salary i can retire at 77 with the minimum wage!
Sounds like a lot of work. Guess you need to consider what skills you can offer over and above others looking for the same role if you return to the UK.Daily commute:2h30. Work day 8.30-6.30pm.
Plus 1-2 h marking/lesson planning per evening.
I also do private tutoring to pay my fuel bills(2-4 a week), plus mark exams for an EFL exam centre (1 euro per essay!).
With all the above i can pay my rent/food/household bills/my children's school fees. Anything else (private pension/cinema/days out) comes out of savings!!!
Oh yes i nearly forgot:
I got a pension estimate last month. On current salary i can retire at 77 with the minimum wage!
And if TEFL I am guessing this would not be in a state school so pay scales, pensions are all irrelevant.
I was looking at doing some private work but my workload is due to increase in a few months. Private tutoring and/or evening classes etc are all paying £20+ an hour.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff