Possible redundancy - some advice

[andy-xr]

Rick_1138 said:

The meeting went as well as expected.

All very polite and easy going. Covered all the basic facts about why my role was chosen as possible redundancy, basically my role can be handed out to external consultants for considerably cheaper than my salary, which is fair enough.

However talking about my role and duties, and the upcoming new ISO standards and their implementation, as well as being on site\phone at all times (consultancies may not help on a weekend etc), they were interested in me offering a shorter week.

However they are looking more at 3 days a week which would be a significant pay cut) but i could do work for other companies.

The issue with this is i have never been a self employed person, and that opens up a rather different ball game, with qualifications, knowledge, pay\tax, liabilities and being responsible for other sites HSE could be bad if i do something wrong and am classed as responsible for something happening on site or not being checked properly etc.

So i have a lot to think about, as i dont want to be rushed into becoming like a sole trader and find its really not for me etc.

This, isnt good. What you'll end up with is a reduced hours contract and some work for a while, and while you're welcome to find other things to fill the remaining 2 days a week, you'll get slammed on a rate because yo'll only have so much concentration to put towards a second role

I appreciate you may be going into this with 'something's better than nothing' butI would negotiate for a voluntary redundancy, ask for an ex gratia payment and if needs be, scribble out the holidays you've taken and have them paid out.

It stikes me, the longer you're around this company the more they'll take the piss and the shorter your patience will be with them. Clean stats are often a good option with some cash behind you . As has been mentioned, you may be walking away from a potential redundancy payout if you accept the reduced week, a good employment lawyer should be able to help you cos I think you might have walked up a blind alley here

[Rick_1138]

andy-xr said:

Rick_1138 said:

The meeting went as well as expected.

All very polite and easy going. Covered all the basic facts about why my role was chosen as possible redundancy, basically my role can be handed out to external consultants for considerably cheaper than my salary, which is fair enough.

However talking about my role and duties, and the upcoming new ISO standards and their implementation, as well as being on site\phone at all times (consultancies may not help on a weekend etc), they were interested in me offering a shorter week.

However they are looking more at 3 days a week which would be a significant pay cut) but i could do work for other companies.

The issue with this is i have never been a self employed person, and that opens up a rather different ball game, with qualifications, knowledge, pay\tax, liabilities and being responsible for other sites HSE could be bad if i do something wrong and am classed as responsible for something happening on site or not being checked properly etc.

So i have a lot to think about, as i dont want to be rushed into becoming like a sole trader and find its really not for me etc.

This, isnt good. What you'll end up with is a reduced hours contract and some work for a while, and while you're welcome to find other things to fill the remaining 2 days a week, you'll get slammed on a rate because yo'll only have so much concentration to put towards a second role

I appreciate you may be going into this with 'something's better than nothing' butI would negotiate for a voluntary redundancy, ask for an ex gratia payment and if needs be, scribble out the holidays you've taken and have them paid out.

It stikes me, the longer you're around this company the more they'll take the piss and the shorter your patience will be with them. Clean stats are often a good option with some cash behind you . As has been mentioned, you may be walking away from a potential redundancy payout if you accept the reduced week, a good employment lawyer should be able to help you cos I think you might have walked up a blind alley here

TBH, i am mostly in agreement with what you are saying.

There is another meeting in a week, and they have asked if i can put together a document explaining what timescales the work i do covers, and include stuff like new standard implementation, also going into being on site all the time, as this l=place is bad for last minute requirements of stuff, and a third party consultant wont be able to jump the minute when the sales team comes calling.

If i was offered 4 days a week but as a full employee with my current role with hourly change salary reduction i would be happy with that, as its a good place to work and they are happy with my work, this is simply a numbers game, but they realise consultants may cause issues with not being available as required and could cost more in long run with new standards etc.

However if its a case of a 3 day week, and as a contractor setup rather than full employee i would rather go redundancy option and find a role somewhere else, i am not going to hang about 'just to have a job'.

If that makes sense

[CubanPete]

Can you not take the redundancy and then work for them 3 days a week on a consultancy basis?

[Rick_1138]

CubanPete said:

Can you not take the redundancy and then work for them 3 days a week on a consultancy basis?

Found out the ops manager was let go last night, 3 weeks from his 2 years service. Apparently GM phoned him last week when he had heard about redundancies and was assured by the GM he was safe, they are just getting rid of 'deadwood'.

Nice to have the ste cleared away so i can see more clearly its as i thought.

CV is going to agencies tonight, and phoning CAB to get a bit more accurate info about what i should be doing in any future interviews.

EDIT: Anyone know a good place that can review a CV for someone for suitability?

Edited by Rick_1138 on Wednesday 8th June 11:22

[andy-xr]

I'd be using work time to do all that as well as my own tbh

how long have you been there? There was a mention of something pre 2008, have you been at this company since?

[Rick_1138]

andy-xr said:

I'd be using work time to do all that as well as my own tbh

how long have you been there? There was a mention of something pre 2008, have you been at this company since?

Been here since 2011, August.

So i will only get 4 weeks redundancy as about 2 months away from 5 years service.

[edc]

Rick_1138 said:

Been here since 2011, August.

So i will only get 4 weeks redundancy as about 2 months away from 5 years service.

You will also be entitled to your contractual notice whether paid in lieu or worked.

You don't say what the redundancy policy/calculation is but you should be aware of the statutory cap and the calculation table based on age and service is readily available on the Internet. The Company may enhance this with additional company redundancy payments too. As part of your consultation process you should be provided with estimate of your final payments.

[Rick_1138]

edc said:

Rick_1138 said:

Been here since 2011, August.

So i will only get 4 weeks redundancy as about 2 months away from 5 years service.

You will also be entitled to your contractual notice whether paid in lieu or worked.

You don't say what the redundancy policy/calculation is but you should be aware of the statutory cap and the calculation table based on age and service is readily available on the Internet. The Company may enhance this with additional company redundancy payments too. As part of your consultation process you should be provided with estimate of your final payments.

I havent been told my redundancy total yet, but from a mate at work in same boat he was told its just basic, there are no redundancy packages being offered.

Notice will be 1 week of year of service, so 4 weeks for me, as not quite at 5 years. If they ask for 5 weeks notice, i will expect 5 weeks redundancy, or they can fk off.

Need to have my cv reviewed then put it onto agencies today\tonight.

[ruggedscotty]

Id give the 3 day thing a wide berth - that's a common ruse as you end up doing the same work load in shorter hours for less money and they are riding you. If the company doesn't appreciate in house or realise your worth then you need to realise your worth and get away from them. By all means stay there with money coming in but cover your back and ensure that they can not stick anything on you, H&S is a mine field and they may be trying to disassociate themselves and link it to a third party. best off out that and finding a job that treats you well with minimal fuss.

[Rick_1138]

ruggedscotty said:

Id give the 3 day thing a wide berth - that's a common ruse as you end up doing the same work load in shorter hours for less money and they are riding you. If the company doesn't appreciate in house or realise your worth then you need to realise your worth and get away from them. By all means stay there with money coming in but cover your back and ensure that they can not stick anything on you, H&S is a mine field and they may be trying to disassociate themselves and link it to a third party. best off out that and finding a job that treats you well with minimal fuss.

Aye, 3 days is not something i am entertaining, i have drafted a letter outlining my duties and what is covered as a competent role (i.e. qualifications) and would look at 4 days a week as a continuation of contract, etc. Its unlikely they will keep me on at that stage but its what i am laying out in my next consultation.

CV's are going out to recruitment firms now and made contact with a few people in the industry that i know.

Just a bit of a waiting game now.

The other issue is, with the O&G downturn, HSE jobs are going to be scarce, and many fighting over 1 position, so even reduced hours for a while tides me over, while i look at other places to work.

Edited by Rick_1138 on Thursday 9th June 09:02

[Rick_1138]

Bit of an update.

I have spoken with my friends fiancee who does HR for a living.

She has looked over my notes and the minutes i have received and has laughed at them, as they are awful, piss poor grammar, mashing 2 parts of a conversation together and it makes it read like i have agreed with stuff when in fact i wasnt talking about the first bit of the sentence etc.

They haven't given me a meeting time for my next meeting in writing, they said Tuesday A.M. (Today) but got a call at 12:30 saying my meeting will be tomorrow at 10am.

I have also spoken with another colleague in the same boat and he was informed by another colleague who has gone through recent redundacy at a rival employer who now works for us, basically our bonus scheme is contractual at 10% split between 2 payments a year (first one is this months coming pay) basically as there has no been no formal confirmation that no bonuses are being paid at this time, then it can be assumed that these should still be paid, even as part of redundancy.

When this was put to the guy doing the consultation with my colleague, he was told that no bonuses would be paid, he explained that its in the contract, and his person who came in with him explained to the management rep that as nothings in writing, they cant withold the bonus.

When they came back saying that, they wont pay bonuses, they were told that the previous employer fund that they actually had to pay a bonus even through redundancy,,there was some muttering and then told 'we'll have to check'.

Its showing that they dont know what they are doing, they just want folk out the door.

[andy-xr]

This will be a test of patience for you.

Your best bet at the moment (if you dont want to get an employment lawyer to advise you) is to sit tight, let them present things to you, ask for time to digest it and then come back to them with feedback. Drag it out if you have to, as in, dont be pushed into signing something or agreeing to anything just yet. There's nothing wrong with sleeping on it.

The notes of the meeting etc, doesnt really matter as the end result for you I assume is going to be 'pay me'

[Rick_1138]

Yeah, i am actually kind of done with it, but you never know, they could accept the 4 day a week proposal, with stipulation that fridays i am not working, if i need to come in, its at hourly cost etc, as they will try that one on.

TBH once i am told (if) i am away, its a case of seeing what they expect in terms of notice as TBH it will be excruciating having to sit here for x weeks, showing people how to do my job, that is apparently now redundant.

I am all for Pay in Lieu of notice, and wave tata.

[Vee]

You want PILON at the end of the handover period - which you get paid for.
Good luck

[Rick_1138]

Just got told at 9:35 that my 10am meeting is now at 3pm.

Was told as a passing comment. trying not to be too fed up, but its a struggle