Starting work on time?
Discussion
mph1977 said:
thainy77 said:
Type R Tom said:
True but out of interest, how much time per day do you feel is acceptable to "work" unpaid? Not including commuting, self employed, breaks etc.
It's a difficult question to answer and it does depend on the role as you mentioned above but for this subject i don't see 20 minutes as unreasonable. In previous managerial roles i have held 10-15 hours a week was relatively common but i always had the current end goal in sight.
ETA: Pay and perks that come with managerial roles will typically be better than minimum wage perks so people need to get off their arse and work for it. People sitting on minimum wage and moaning about everything will never get anywhere in life.
Edited by thainy77 on Tuesday 7th June 16:01
True enough.
Although it does bring to mind the saying - not everybody can be somebody, if everybody was somebody then nobody would be anybody.
A lot of people know they're not going to get anywhere in a certain role. They know it, their bosses know it, but they are still essential in those positions and it's important they stay in those roles.
Not everybody can be a 'success' in your terms - constantly striving.
Of all the teachers for example, in the UK, there will only ever be a fixed number of head teachers, no matter how often they change jobs. You can't 'make it happen' just by wanting it enough.
It's also crucially important, for any system to function properly, that the bulk of the workforce don't actually constantly strive to get out of the jobs they're in and into better jobs - it would just lead to chaos.
To encourage people to 'settle', to accept their 'lot', that 'lot' has to be made sufficently attractive to stay there.
Their acceptance of their 'lots' enables you to strive for yours.
Although it does bring to mind the saying - not everybody can be somebody, if everybody was somebody then nobody would be anybody.
A lot of people know they're not going to get anywhere in a certain role. They know it, their bosses know it, but they are still essential in those positions and it's important they stay in those roles.
Not everybody can be a 'success' in your terms - constantly striving.
Of all the teachers for example, in the UK, there will only ever be a fixed number of head teachers, no matter how often they change jobs. You can't 'make it happen' just by wanting it enough.
It's also crucially important, for any system to function properly, that the bulk of the workforce don't actually constantly strive to get out of the jobs they're in and into better jobs - it would just lead to chaos.
To encourage people to 'settle', to accept their 'lot', that 'lot' has to be made sufficently attractive to stay there.
Their acceptance of their 'lots' enables you to strive for yours.
Granfondo said:
schmunk said:
You may wish to have a think about this practice. From the BBC reporting of Mike Ashley in Parliament today:
Has he looked into staff who clock onto work a minute late being docked 15 minutes pay? "You ask me what I think, I think that's unacceptable," he says and confirms that to his knowledge it's been changed.
Unacceptable, but you would have to be bloody stupid to do it a second or third time! Has he looked into staff who clock onto work a minute late being docked 15 minutes pay? "You ask me what I think, I think that's unacceptable," he says and confirms that to his knowledge it's been changed.
Pothole said:
Granfondo said:
schmunk said:
You may wish to have a think about this practice. From the BBC reporting of Mike Ashley in Parliament today:
Has he looked into staff who clock onto work a minute late being docked 15 minutes pay? "You ask me what I think, I think that's unacceptable," he says and confirms that to his knowledge it's been changed.
Unacceptable, but you would have to be bloody stupid to do it a second or third time! Has he looked into staff who clock onto work a minute late being docked 15 minutes pay? "You ask me what I think, I think that's unacceptable," he says and confirms that to his knowledge it's been changed.
Meant to say that I do agree with many who have posted about dead end jobs. I worked in retail during the recession in the USA and it was a total dead end job. One of the major US retail chains. Three days a week we started at 4am to unload the truck. I would be in for 3.45am to get everything ready and home time was 11am. It was first unload the truck and as the boxes came down the line you put them on to the required pallet. At about 6am we were taking everything out onto the store floor and basically stacked shelves till home time.
It was minimum wage and people came and went non stop. I did not care about the job at all and would not put one bit extra effort into it at all. Highest pay check I got was $420 for near 70 hours work. Had $5 left over after paying rent.
We had to endure a team huddle every morning where the managers would tell us all, how much the store made the day before. Often well over $200,000. This was suppose to make us proud. Near everybody there was living with food stamps and section 8 housing just to survive. The company would limit everyone's hours to less than 26hrs per week average to avoid paying health benefits. I was terrified of getting ill.
The retail chain closed many across the US this year and that one store was also closed. Some had worked their for 16 years and did not even get as much of a thanks. It is easy to see why many who are the working poor hate their jobs and simply won't see it as anything other than a small pay check to survive.
It was minimum wage and people came and went non stop. I did not care about the job at all and would not put one bit extra effort into it at all. Highest pay check I got was $420 for near 70 hours work. Had $5 left over after paying rent.
We had to endure a team huddle every morning where the managers would tell us all, how much the store made the day before. Often well over $200,000. This was suppose to make us proud. Near everybody there was living with food stamps and section 8 housing just to survive. The company would limit everyone's hours to less than 26hrs per week average to avoid paying health benefits. I was terrified of getting ill.
The retail chain closed many across the US this year and that one store was also closed. Some had worked their for 16 years and did not even get as much of a thanks. It is easy to see why many who are the working poor hate their jobs and simply won't see it as anything other than a small pay check to survive.
I would like to know how it's acceptable for an employer to dock 15 minutes pay if someone is 1 minute late yet it isn't acceptable to pay 15 minutes additional pay if someone works 1 minute past their end time.
There seems to be a bit of a double-standard there and I'm amazed quite so many people seem to support it.
There seems to be a bit of a double-standard there and I'm amazed quite so many people seem to support it.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: I would like to know how it's acceptable for an employer to dock 15 minutes pay if someone is 1 minute late yet it isn't acceptable to pay 15 minutes additional pay if someone works 1 minute past their end time.
There seems to be a bit of a double-standard there and I'm amazed quite so many people seem to support it.
Of course it is wrong. There seems to be a bit of a double-standard there and I'm amazed quite so many people seem to support it.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I would like to know how it's acceptable for an employer to dock 15 minutes pay if someone is 1 minute late yet it isn't acceptable to pay 15 minutes additional pay if someone works 1 minute past their end time.
There seems to be a bit of a double-standard there and I'm amazed quite so many people seem to support it.
No double standard at all. If a machine operator turns up 1 minute late then the line has stopped. That means that a load of other people and machinery are standing idle for no good reason. When it comes to the end of the shift nobody works part their end time unless they have agreed to. They can and do literally walk. The red button goes in and the lines stop. Nobody will be asked to stay back 1 minute, the overtime accounting unit is 15 minutes. You have been asked to stay back 15 minutes (or longer) or not, and you will be paid accordingly. This system has been around for years, even in unionised organisations, because it is fair. Imagine a coal mine, where all the men go down in the same lift. One turns up late. What are you going to do, hold everyone else up or lay on a special lift? It's going to take ~10 minutes to get the lift up and down.There seems to be a bit of a double-standard there and I'm amazed quite so many people seem to support it.
I was called up to see my boss few years ago & asked why I had left the building without permission. I explained that my working hours were 7:55am to 4:55pm & the fact that I arrived to work early that day (about 7am) & NOT claiming any overtime or wanting to leave early meant that in my opinion this was still classed as "my time" & all I had done was popped back up to the petrol station because I had left my bank card there & this was around 7:20am so still "my time" & nobody else in my apartment had arrived so there was nobody to tell! He claimed that whilst I was in the building what ever the time was, this was NOT my time it was classed as working time but I completely disagreed & asked him why we were even having this discussion to which he replied "somebody reported you for leaving the building without permission" At that point I told him that he had already wasted 10 mins of my life & that I was going home. Funnily enough, I am still in the same job & he isn't !!!!!!
I think its reasonably simple here, well from my perspective anyway. I've worked in similar conditions as a student.
Firstly why are some people getting changed to leave before others if all the work isn't done? All this does is bread a poor working relationship between workers and animosity from those still working while others are getting changed. If those getting changed pitched in with the other tasks the reality is they could probably all leave a little early most days.
If you're able to take your uniform home you should arrive and be ready to work at the allotted start time. As has been mentioned by others I work in an office and I cycle to work, but I dont get here at 9 and then spend 10mins changing out of my bike clothes on works time.
If your uniform must be kept on site for whatever reason the worker should be given paid time to change before the allotted start time or a few minutes to change during the working period.
I have some friends in the police force, they have to keep their uniforms at the station (for obvious reasons). Their shifts start and finish at time x and y, but they get a small period of paid time before and after each shift to change.
Firstly why are some people getting changed to leave before others if all the work isn't done? All this does is bread a poor working relationship between workers and animosity from those still working while others are getting changed. If those getting changed pitched in with the other tasks the reality is they could probably all leave a little early most days.
If you're able to take your uniform home you should arrive and be ready to work at the allotted start time. As has been mentioned by others I work in an office and I cycle to work, but I dont get here at 9 and then spend 10mins changing out of my bike clothes on works time.
If your uniform must be kept on site for whatever reason the worker should be given paid time to change before the allotted start time or a few minutes to change during the working period.
I have some friends in the police force, they have to keep their uniforms at the station (for obvious reasons). Their shifts start and finish at time x and y, but they get a small period of paid time before and after each shift to change.
I did a summer job baggage handling at an airport in my early 20s and most of the time the start times were ok but occasionally you'd get a start time during a busy flights period and you were expected to go through security clearing like everyone else (rightly of course). This meant on occasion you would have to rock up 45 minutes before your shift started because they put the clocking in machine airside. I thought that took the piss, 10 minutes early to make sure you are on time fair enough but when the company forces you to clock on AFTER the security clearance they impose and it takes nearly an hour to get through it was a joke.
Pothole said:
burritoNinja said:
My Army days have stuck with me in regards to time keeping. If you're on time then you are late. I personally would be there 20 minutes before to get dressed and prepared.
Squaddies are not generally renowned for their intelligence, though.I hate being late for things so I'm regularly 15-20 minutes early for work, I will always leave on time though unless there is something urgent. Some people within my office seem to have no existence outside of it and will see leaving on time as a lack of willingness to work, which in my view is ridiculous. If you're unable to finish you work within the time you have then something is wrong.
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