Paternity Leave
Discussion
roofer said:
megaphone said:
Why do you need more than a few days off? Wife has baby, all goes well, she comes home and looks after baby, you got back to work and keep the family/economy/country going.
This.
My wife does a job that's infinitely more worthwhile to the country than mine and she also earns more than me and pays more tax than me.
Steve H said:
I don't mind if it is something that an employer wants to do as a goodwill exercise and I can see how it could be effective and have done the same myself, I just don't like it being available as a right.
Yes I agree. I think the current system where mum & dad can share statutory leave is good enough. It would be nice to have a more generous system like some of the Scandinavian countries but on a global scale I think the UK is pretty generous.From the employer's point of view.. in a job where I have plenty of potential employers to choose from and the turnover rate is quite low (at least 5 years on average) - I think it makes sense to be more generous. A couple of weeks paid for a major event that will happen maybe twice in my entire career.... Then I'd feel they care about me and my family's well-being and I won't go looking for a better employer. It makes sense to me.
944fan said:
paulrockliffe said:
But the equality is there.
Often though the employer will pay the woman more. When my wife had our first she was given 6 weeks full pay, and then another long period of time which I can't remember how long of reduced pay - but way above statutory.I didn't work in the same place but I doubt the men got the same level of pay
The policy also has no link between separate employers, for obvious reasons, but that introduces further inequality because if parents have different employers they have the benefit of two policies that the employer can't link. So two parents that both work for the Civil Service can get 6 months full pay to share, but if only one does, that one employee can get 6 months full pay, while the other parent benefits by whatever enhancement their own employer offers.
R E S T E C P said:
Women should definitely get more time off, that makes sense. And to be fair the statutory maternity leave isn't generous unless you're a very low earner (then I think it pretty much covers your salary for 9 months).
Yes I've been saving my annual leave, but again I only get the minimum and can't carry it over. The council gives my wife twice as much and she can carry it all over for maternity leave!
Statutory paternity leave (practically unpaid) plus annual leave... 1 month off in total at significant expense and no more days off with my new child for the rest of the year. Meh.
Sounds like time to look for a new job, but if you're anything like me, you'll be desperate to go back to work after the first few days! Yes I've been saving my annual leave, but again I only get the minimum and can't carry it over. The council gives my wife twice as much and she can carry it all over for maternity leave!
Statutory paternity leave (practically unpaid) plus annual leave... 1 month off in total at significant expense and no more days off with my new child for the rest of the year. Meh.
Time off with the kids once they're old enough to do fun things is great, but babies? They have absolutely no redeeming features!
megaphone said:
Why do you need more than a few days off? Wife has baby, all goes well, she comes home and looks after baby, you got back to work and keep the family/economy/country going.
I'm going to assume this is a joke that's gone a bit wrong, because the other reason you'd say it isnt a good place to be coming from. New Dads should have time to spend with their newborn and to look after new Mum a bit. Or just have some recovery time for the first few days of intently watching and wondering whether that noise was good or bad. And for taking photos of pink squidgy messes. Edited by megaphone on Friday 17th June 20:44
It's a time to let your skin heal from the labour caused nail marks in your arm. It's not for work - that comes later when the lack of sleep and constant crying means you need an escape for a while.
I've got 2 weeks +1 from the company for ours, due September. My wife has 6 weeks on 90% then statutory, which isnt great so we've been saving like mad for her to be able to take 9 months off and still have some kind of life.
The most important thing I've found, even though we havent had ours yet, is my wife needs a New Her fund. During pregnancy she's had to buy more clothes, struggled to find anything nice in the maternity sections, hasnt been able to do a lot of the things she likes/wants to do because they've been too physical. When ours is born I'm kind of assuming that she'll want or need to buy new clothes to feel a bit better, eat pate and salmon, have chorizo on pizzas, buy blue cheese and do yogalates or whatever it is she was doing.And somewhere in that, find time for herself and picking up her hobbes and activities she's not been able to do for the last however months. Meanwhile, I'll be looking after a baby as well, I shant be working much
Edited by andy-xr on Tuesday 21st June 10:43
It'll start from birth, so it's a floating kind of leave. I dont want to be a Dad who just disappears off to work a) not seeing my child much and b) leaving my wife to do a lot of stuff.
I'd feel like I was missing out on things that you only get to experience once. If I miss a day or two of work, or even a fortnight, the world still keeps turning. I fly a desk
I'd feel like I was missing out on things that you only get to experience once. If I miss a day or two of work, or even a fortnight, the world still keeps turning. I fly a desk
andy-xr said:
megaphone said:
Why do you need more than a few days off? Wife has baby, all goes well, she comes home and looks after baby, you got back to work and keep the family/economy/country going.
I'm going to assume this is a joke that's gone a bit wrong, because the other reason you'd say it isnt a good place to be coming from. New Dads should have time to spend with their newborn and to look after new Mum a bit. Or just have some recovery time for the first few days of intently watching and wondering whether that noise was good or bad. And for taking photos of pink squidgy messes. Edited by megaphone on Friday 17th June 20:44
It's a time to let your skin heal from the labour caused nail marks in your arm. It's not for work - that comes later when the lack of sleep and constant crying means you need an escape for a while.
I've got 2 weeks +1 from the company for ours, due September. My wife has 6 weeks on 90% then statutory, which isnt great so we've been saving like mad for her to be able to take 9 months off and still have some kind of life.
The most important thing I've found, even though we havent had ours yet, is my wife needs a New Her fund. During pregnancy she's had to buy more clothes, struggled to find anything nice in the maternity sections, hasnt been able to do a lot of the things she likes/wants to do because they've been too physical. When ours is born I'm kind of assuming that she'll want or need to buy new clothes to feel a bit better, eat pate and salmon, have chorizo on pizzas, buy blue cheese and do yogalates or whatever it is she was doing.And somewhere in that, find time for herself and picking up her hobbes and activities she's not been able to do for the last however months. Meanwhile, I'll be looking after a baby as well, I shant be working much
Edited by andy-xr on Tuesday 21st June 10:43
megaphone said:
andy-xr said:
megaphone said:
Why do you need more than a few days off? Wife has baby, all goes well, she comes home and looks after baby, you got back to work and keep the family/economy/country going.
I'm going to assume this is a joke that's gone a bit wrong, because the other reason you'd say it isnt a good place to be coming from. New Dads should have time to spend with their newborn and to look after new Mum a bit. Or just have some recovery time for the first few days of intently watching and wondering whether that noise was good or bad. And for taking photos of pink squidgy messes. Edited by megaphone on Friday 17th June 20:44
It's a time to let your skin heal from the labour caused nail marks in your arm. It's not for work - that comes later when the lack of sleep and constant crying means you need an escape for a while.
I've got 2 weeks +1 from the company for ours, due September. My wife has 6 weeks on 90% then statutory, which isnt great so we've been saving like mad for her to be able to take 9 months off and still have some kind of life.
The most important thing I've found, even though we havent had ours yet, is my wife needs a New Her fund. During pregnancy she's had to buy more clothes, struggled to find anything nice in the maternity sections, hasnt been able to do a lot of the things she likes/wants to do because they've been too physical. When ours is born I'm kind of assuming that she'll want or need to buy new clothes to feel a bit better, eat pate and salmon, have chorizo on pizzas, buy blue cheese and do yogalates or whatever it is she was doing.And somewhere in that, find time for herself and picking up her hobbes and activities she's not been able to do for the last however months. Meanwhile, I'll be looking after a baby as well, I shant be working much
Edited by andy-xr on Tuesday 21st June 10:43
To be fair though, she did say i was more use at work than home with the babies
megaphone said:
No, no joke. Some people need to man up a bit.
I feel genuinely sorry for you.As an 'absent' father I treasure the time I can spend with my kids.
The macho attitude may be big and clever but maybe one day you'll look back and think I wish I spent more time with my family.
Have a listen to Harry Chapin's Cats in the Cradle. It's a great song.
Edited by Rick101 on Tuesday 21st June 15:45
Rick101 said:
megaphone said:
No, no joke. Some people need to man up a bit.
I feel genuinely sorry for you.As an 'absent' father I treasure the time I can spend with my kids.
The macho attitude may be big and clever but maybe one day you'll look back and think I wish I spent more time with my family.
Have a listen to Harry Chapin's Cats in the Cradle. It's a great song.
Edited by Rick101 on Tuesday 21st June 15:45
{quote=andy-xr] New Dads should have time to spend with their newborn and to look after new Mum a bit. Or just have some recovery time for the first few days of intently watching and wondering whether that noise was good or bad. And for taking photos of pink squidgy messes.
[/quote]
I totally agree with you. I just don't understand why people fell they should entitled to be paid for this.
If you want paid for not going to work, that is called 'holiday' and all employers provide this.
[/quote]
I totally agree with you. I just don't understand why people fell they should entitled to be paid for this.
If you want paid for not going to work, that is called 'holiday' and all employers provide this.
Rick101 said:
megaphone said:
No, no joke. Some people need to man up a bit.
I feel genuinely sorry for you.As an 'absent' father I treasure the time I can spend with my kids.
The macho attitude may be big and clever but maybe one day you'll look back and think I wish I spent more time with my family.
Have a listen to Harry Chapin's Cats in the Cradle. It's a great song.
There are few things better than taking my kids (13, 10 & 8) mountain biking on the weekend, or taking a day off for an Inset day to enjoy a day with them at Thorpe Park without the usual queues or whatever.
If I'd had the option to take 6 months off for parental leave, I would've happily done so, but looking back, I certainly wouldn't have wanted to squander it on them when they were babies!
DocJock said:
{quote=andy-xr] New Dads should have time to spend with their newborn and to look after new Mum a bit. Or just have some recovery time for the first few days of intently watching and wondering whether that noise was good or bad. And for taking photos of pink squidgy messes.
I totally agree with you. I just don't understand why people fell they should entitled to be paid for this.
If you want paid for not going to work, that is called 'holiday' and all employers provide this.I totally agree with you. I just don't understand why people fell they should entitled to be paid for this.
let me explain;
Many people want to work for employers where they're included, as in the company takes you in, looks after you, in return you spend your time helping the company move forward. Its a joint understanding.. Employees share a lot of their life at work, and a birth is a fairly big deal. Something to be happy for someone about. So paternity leave is often a time where an employer might want to show some willing.
In many cases I'd imagine a new father is probably useless at work as their mind is going to be somewhere else and not really on the job, they may as well be at home
If I had an employer who declined my leave request we'd probably part ways fairly soon after I called in sick for 2 weeks.
But that deviates a little as what you're implying is that fathers should, if they want, either use holiday rather than statutory or topped up paternity leave
Edited by andy-xr on Tuesday 21st June 22:25
The company I work for let me have 1 week paternity leave at 90% salary and another week paternity at the standard govermanent rate which was peanuts. My partner had various medical problems so the time she spent resting while I looked after the little one was a lot more important than me losing a load of pay that month. Plus I got to bond with him over night feeds which I wouldn't like to do now having to work too.
The first few weeks are the hardest with women getting over the birth, the massive life changes, potential baby blues and the chaotic feeding requirements of new borns that not taking some time out to help seems massively selfish to me. Companies should encourage this in my opinion and not just rely that the man has annual leave left to take.
The first few weeks are the hardest with women getting over the birth, the massive life changes, potential baby blues and the chaotic feeding requirements of new borns that not taking some time out to help seems massively selfish to me. Companies should encourage this in my opinion and not just rely that the man has annual leave left to take.
DocJock said:
I just don't understand why people fell they should entitled to be paid for this.
If you want paid for not going to work, that is called 'holiday' and all employers provide this.
I don't think anyone on this thread said we should be entitled to it?If you want paid for not going to work, that is called 'holiday' and all employers provide this.
But employers should offer it. It makes sense.
I don't know what jobs the anti-pat-leave people here do, but in all of my jobs (software) the average amount of unpaid overtime is about an hour a day. That's about 225 hours per year - 30 extra work days per year totally unpaid!
If I have 1 baby in the 5 years (average) I stay at a job - they're getting 150 days free out of me. I think giving me back 10 paid days is reasonable?
If you say "no work = no pay"... Fine... But if you apply it the other way the employer will lose 15 times as much!
PurpleMoonlight said:
And I'm sure the employer would be glad to see the back of you.
Possibly, it's hopefully something that would be ironed out before it got to that, either in interview or in general conversation. I think if employers approach things in a factory/line mentality, that can be right for some companies, eg if you're Sports Direct and really you just need a line of people and can accept churn. But for more involved positions the cost of a disgruntled employee is too high, far higher than the cost of a couple of weeks out. Less tactics, more statagy
Kermit power said:
If I'd had the option to take 6 months off for parental leave, I would've happily done so, but looking back, I certainly wouldn't have wanted to squander it on them when they were babies!
Yeah that's true. I'd have rather have had my 4 months later, but because of the daft way the policy was implemented it was either 4 months paid in the first 6 months, or 4 months unpaid within the second 6 months. Couldn't afford to be unpaid, so we were both off together when it would have been more fun and better from a childcare point of view to have taken leave later. not sure I would have coped looking after the little Bear on my own though!As it was I got a load of work done on my workshop, walls removed, new floor down, and a load of other useful stuff. Aiming to have Bear2 sorted for next summer, though I expect that won't work quite so well from a DIY point of view, unless Granny2 can get retired before then.
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