Bit of an advise on possibility of dismissal :(

[crazy about cars]

bigunit00 said:

I have developed my skills in a similar way but the key thing I have learnt last few years as projects / programmes got larger / more complex / more politics / more unknowns / more stakeholders in a large corporate is you MUST get the governance and terms of reference agreed upfront. Without this in place and strong sponsorship by people who are impacted and accountable a PM can do little to deliver much.

Agreed, I've tried my best to set governance however there is just no support from the senior level of management. Due to what I can describe as politics certain stage of the project took much longer/cost must more.
However we got there in the end despite the challenges. There's lots of lessons learnt and I'm confident we can progress further however momentum just died as key people leave.

[crazy about cars]

Right, had a little time to myself today taking it easy after an accident this morning so my thoughts went to overdrive...

Everything seemed to have progressed rather quickly last week with the last action on Saturday where the company emailed out an offer letter. I am supposed to have the full hardcopy contract by Wednesday latest but so far still hasn't heard anything. Recruiter did call on Tuesday and said he will chase. I've also dropped him an email yesterday. So far all went bit quiet.

Perhaps I should just give it few more days but I'm just a bit paranoid they change their mind last minute, which to me seems bit odd. Anyway whatever happens I've handed in notice and would definitely not go back...

[craigjm]

crazy about cars said:

Right, had a little time to myself today taking it easy after an accident this morning so my thoughts went to overdrive...

Everything seemed to have progressed rather quickly last week with the last action on Saturday where the company emailed out an offer letter. I am supposed to have the full hardcopy contract by Wednesday latest but so far still hasn't heard anything. Recruiter did call on Tuesday and said he will chase. I've also dropped him an email yesterday. So far all went bit quiet.

Perhaps I should just give it few more days but I'm just a bit paranoid they change their mind last minute, which to me seems bit odd. Anyway whatever happens I've handed in notice and would definitely not go back...

This is why I said earlier, never hand in your notice until its all sorted. Hope it works out OK, good luck.

[crazy about cars]

Thanks. Only handed in my notice as momentum was going pretty well last week. Had offer letter from company emailed plus usual stuff from recruiter company so thought it's pretty much nailed bar the actual contract being sent out.

Lesson learnt I guess. Not very hopeful now as recruiter not returning my calls or emails. Just texted the director hoping for reply. Just find it strange there's sudden change of direction, cold feet?

Im just in stream of bad luck st the moment , really feel broken

[crazy about cars]

I've got offer of employment letter confirming job title, salary, office and working hours which I would class as a conditional offer? Just one point in the letter about 6 month probation where upon completion my salary will be increased.
Just want to check if I have any recourse if they withdraw at this stage.

[edc]

On the face of it the offer is unconditional unless it says something like "subject to satisfactory references", "checking of qualifications" etc

[craigjm]

Any job offer regardless of what the letter says and the phrases used is conditional until you have signed a contract of employment with said company. Until that point it can be withdrawn and you are up creek without a paddle unless you have substantiated evidence to show the withdrawal is based on discrimination.

[Jasandjules]

crazy about cars said:

I've got offer of employment letter confirming job title, salary, office and working hours which I would class as a conditional offer? Just one point in the letter about 6 month probation where upon completion my salary will be increased.
Just want to check if I have any recourse if they withdraw at this stage.

Until you've been employed with them for two years, you pretty much have no recourse (save for certain discriminatory/whistleblowing matters of course)....

[crazy about cars]

craigjm said:

Any job offer regardless of what the letter says and the phrases used is conditional until you have signed a contract of employment with said company. Until that point it can be withdrawn and you are up creek without a paddle unless you have substantiated evidence to show the withdrawal is based on discrimination.

Sometimes makes me wonder why I even try, perhaps consider going on benefits instead. I could potentially "earn" almost as much net.

[andy-xr]

Time to start wearing the Patience t shirt, the recruiter wont dodge a call if there's an invoice they can raise, so they probably havent heard back from the client and are dodging you because they dont know anything.

The company bloke you contacted probably passed it to HR to send out so it'll be out of their hands. So it'd be reasonable to assume at the moment that you've got an electronic offer from them. If the email says print it, sign it, scan it and send it back then you dont need the hard copy. If the offer is conditional, and I guess it will be on at least references, then that's still a hurdle to cross if your references dont check out. The 'you cant give a bad reference' line is bullst, you can give a factual reference. Many companies dont bother and just send back dates and position worked.

Unless there's something that you're not telling us, I dont think this sounds like it'd been pulled from under you. It just sounds like a recruiter being a recruiter and only calling when they want something. Sit it out, there's not a lot you can do that's clever enough to fix this, anything you continue to do at the moment is likely to do more harm than good. No blinking for a bit

[crazy about cars]

Well turns out recruiter went on holiday. I've got emailed copy of contract and confidentiality aggreement to sign. Does look like it's been drafted by an external company as it has a little watermark on each page.

Contract contains pretty standard stuff although they've really gone into the nitty gritty, 18 pages long! Some sections in contract does make me bit worried but I guess that's just standard stuff to protect themselves.

Past month definitely has been an emotional rollercoaster, mostly happy that I've found the next step but in the same time a bit worried about the journey ahead. Anyhow I've got 3 more weeks to go before I leave and I managed to get few days off in between so I can spend some time with my family so looking for to that.

[craigjm]

crazy about cars said:

Some sections in contract does make me bit worried

Such as?

[Jasandjules]

Please make sure if there are non-compete clauses you understand them and have the ability to cope with them!

[crazy about cars]

craigjm said:

crazy about cars said:

Some sections in contract does make me bit worried

Such as?

An opt out of Working Time Regulation clause for example when I sign the contract. It does say I can opt back in with 3 months notice but in my previous jobs I've never had to agree to such a clause before. It's also specifically stated I won't be compensated for any extra time worked. This sounds to me I can be asked to work long hours as required.

There's also quite a lot of clause which sounds heavily biased to the Company in the contract. (is it normal to dictate that I must declare what I do in my own spare time to the company? Is it normal to agree to be searched at any time? Is it normal to have a clause where the Company reserves right to change terms of contract at any time?)

There are also a few clause that doesn't apply at all to the whole company so I guess the contract is drafted from a very thorough generic contract (there is a HR Consultancy company reference on the footer)

[craigjm]

crazy about cars said:

craigjm said:

crazy about cars said:

Some sections in contract does make me bit worried

Such as?

An opt out of Working Time Regulation clause for example when I sign the contract. It does say I can opt back in with 3 months notice but in my previous jobs I've never had to agree to such a clause before. It's also specifically stated I won't be compensated for any extra time worked. This sounds to me I can be asked to work long hours as required.

There's also quite a lot of clause which sounds heavily biased to the Company in the contract. (is it normal to dictate that I must declare what I do in my own spare time to the company? Is it normal to agree to be searched at any time? Is it normal to have a clause where the Company reserves right to change terms of contract at any time?)

There are also a few clause that doesn't apply at all to the whole company so I guess the contract is drafted from a very thorough generic contract (there is a HR Consultancy company reference on the footer)

Being asked to opt out of the WTR is fairly standard for any middle to senior job these days. if you want to highlight anything youre concerned with and mail it to me (you can obscure your name etc if you wish) I will take a look over it if you want.

[Steve Campbell]

Declaring what you do in your spare time is very odd. Not seen that before.

Searched isn't that unusual I don't think, depending on type of industry and value of items potentially up for theft (including IP).

[craigjm]

The spare time thing is probably about second jobs and own companies and competing etc which is why I have offered to take a look if he is concerned

[crazy about cars]

craigjm said:

Being asked to opt out of the WTR is fairly standard for any middle to senior job these days. if you want to highlight anything youre concerned with and mail it to me (you can obscure your name etc if you wish) I will take a look over it if you want.

Thanks so much Craig. Greatly appreciated I've emailed the paragraphs in the contract I'm concerned about.

[craigjm]

Just sent you a reply

[crazy about cars]

craigjm said:

Just sent you a reply

Thank you so much again... Greatly appreciate your time and advice