Help me choose a career
Discussion
Hi all, long time reader, first time yadayada. Using something of a generic name as prefer to be semi-anonymous when it comes to employment. This is a long post, so bear with me, and take a deep breath!
Pistonheads is a great place for loads of diverse careers and mostly likeminded people so maybe some of you can relate/pitch in your thoughts and experiences...
My situation/background:
- did OK at school, advised to go to uni, didn't know what I wanted to do but seemed a shame to 'waste' the grades, always liked problem solving, finding out how things worked, physics, fixings things that kind of stuff so chose engineering.
- Uni for 5 years and Ieft with a masters (MEng) in mech eng. Still didn't know what to do.
- Went to work in a shop, great fun, no responsibility but also no money. No closer to knowing what to do.
- after ~6 months got a 'proper' job, or at least one that required me to have a degree to get an interview. It was pretty low paid even for a graduate job but was varied, had a reasonable element of hands on and I could pretty much jump in at the deep end, it kept me interested for a long time, but was no cakewalk, I worked hard, especially in the early years. gradual progression and expanding company was good for me, some travel but not so much as to get worn down by always being away. In the end left as the two options for progression were either subject matter expert or wait patiently to get formal management responsibility and I didn't fancy either. Still didn't know what I wanted to do but had started to understand the industry and was reasonably fond of it. Same company ~7 years, formally only 2 job titles/1 promotion, but in reality pretty significant amount of responsibility when I left. Another driver for leaving was fear of looking unemployable to someone else after being with one company too long.
- Left to join different organisation, same industry but pretty different perspective, some bits I find interesting, others not so much. Some opportunity to use my previous experience but have also understood many new things. Limited travel, not repetitive but don't feel like the variety I used to feel is there. Frustrated by being desk based and little/no link to tangible real world stuff. Really feel like I know the industry well now, but coming up for 2 years in current job and pretty bored and feel underutilised/un-motivated, everyone has off days but feels like already unhappy at work too much of the time.
Still don't know what I want to do.
Other factors that have an effect,
- recently become a parent, so feel pressure (maybe from myself?) to provide more, diddling around for 30k was one thing in the past but now I really feel like I have a role as a bread winner and feel like I should be doing more. Wife has good job but we have nice house/lifestyle and little free cash as it is. I would like to worry about money less (wouldn't we all?).
- It now feels much less likely that I would want/be able to relocate and/or go back to working away from home anything more than a day here or there. time with young children feels precious.
- current job has 3 month notice period, ouch.
Sometimes I wish I had 'a trade' but then I do DIY (for fun?!) and realise what a stress it would be to have joe public depending on you and go off the idea. The most enduring theme in practical work prospects I can see for myself is ending up working on HV electrical stuff as there seems to be consistent demand and hence good pay, but feel like it would take a complete start from scratch to build the quals and experience as it's something I know little about from work/uni. Would I even find someone willing to believe me if trying to go in at apprentice level with my cv?
I would love to think of working for myself, but have little savings/slack to invest/be able to take a risk, it would need to be something I could start small with on the side and hand in notice once there was prospect of reliable income. Have considered trying to flip used/niche cars but feels risky and I'm probably too honest to make £££, also considered running a garage/tyre shop but again dealing with public and expect it would be hard work for small money and a real culture shock for the softy office worker I have become. Property developing - maybe, I am handy but feel like I would struggle to get the guts to take a risk on even a small property to get started and rely on only wifes income while doing so, house prices relatively low (for UK) in our area.
early 30s and 10 years after graduating this really doesn't feel like where I thought I would be (career wise) really frustrated by the feeling and need to make a change, but lacking any conviction/ideas that seem viable after any scrutiny.
wife says I tend to over-think things after reading this post back maybe she has a point!
What do you think I should do?
Pistonheads is a great place for loads of diverse careers and mostly likeminded people so maybe some of you can relate/pitch in your thoughts and experiences...
My situation/background:
- did OK at school, advised to go to uni, didn't know what I wanted to do but seemed a shame to 'waste' the grades, always liked problem solving, finding out how things worked, physics, fixings things that kind of stuff so chose engineering.
- Uni for 5 years and Ieft with a masters (MEng) in mech eng. Still didn't know what to do.
- Went to work in a shop, great fun, no responsibility but also no money. No closer to knowing what to do.
- after ~6 months got a 'proper' job, or at least one that required me to have a degree to get an interview. It was pretty low paid even for a graduate job but was varied, had a reasonable element of hands on and I could pretty much jump in at the deep end, it kept me interested for a long time, but was no cakewalk, I worked hard, especially in the early years. gradual progression and expanding company was good for me, some travel but not so much as to get worn down by always being away. In the end left as the two options for progression were either subject matter expert or wait patiently to get formal management responsibility and I didn't fancy either. Still didn't know what I wanted to do but had started to understand the industry and was reasonably fond of it. Same company ~7 years, formally only 2 job titles/1 promotion, but in reality pretty significant amount of responsibility when I left. Another driver for leaving was fear of looking unemployable to someone else after being with one company too long.
- Left to join different organisation, same industry but pretty different perspective, some bits I find interesting, others not so much. Some opportunity to use my previous experience but have also understood many new things. Limited travel, not repetitive but don't feel like the variety I used to feel is there. Frustrated by being desk based and little/no link to tangible real world stuff. Really feel like I know the industry well now, but coming up for 2 years in current job and pretty bored and feel underutilised/un-motivated, everyone has off days but feels like already unhappy at work too much of the time.
Still don't know what I want to do.
Other factors that have an effect,
- recently become a parent, so feel pressure (maybe from myself?) to provide more, diddling around for 30k was one thing in the past but now I really feel like I have a role as a bread winner and feel like I should be doing more. Wife has good job but we have nice house/lifestyle and little free cash as it is. I would like to worry about money less (wouldn't we all?).
- It now feels much less likely that I would want/be able to relocate and/or go back to working away from home anything more than a day here or there. time with young children feels precious.
- current job has 3 month notice period, ouch.
Sometimes I wish I had 'a trade' but then I do DIY (for fun?!) and realise what a stress it would be to have joe public depending on you and go off the idea. The most enduring theme in practical work prospects I can see for myself is ending up working on HV electrical stuff as there seems to be consistent demand and hence good pay, but feel like it would take a complete start from scratch to build the quals and experience as it's something I know little about from work/uni. Would I even find someone willing to believe me if trying to go in at apprentice level with my cv?
I would love to think of working for myself, but have little savings/slack to invest/be able to take a risk, it would need to be something I could start small with on the side and hand in notice once there was prospect of reliable income. Have considered trying to flip used/niche cars but feels risky and I'm probably too honest to make £££, also considered running a garage/tyre shop but again dealing with public and expect it would be hard work for small money and a real culture shock for the softy office worker I have become. Property developing - maybe, I am handy but feel like I would struggle to get the guts to take a risk on even a small property to get started and rely on only wifes income while doing so, house prices relatively low (for UK) in our area.
early 30s and 10 years after graduating this really doesn't feel like where I thought I would be (career wise) really frustrated by the feeling and need to make a change, but lacking any conviction/ideas that seem viable after any scrutiny.
wife says I tend to over-think things after reading this post back maybe she has a point!
What do you think I should do?
Firstly, I'm staggered you didn't make it on to a graduate engineering scheme post qualification! All those around you I anticipate would have and you would have been involved in numerous seminars and conferences where prospective employers would have been courting you? After 5 years of studying to MEng and you still didn't know what you wanted to do!
I'm really interested in how this came to pass.
Looking forward; you are most likely going to have to make some sacrifices if you want to retrain. The good news is that the sooner you can work out what it is that you're genuinely interested in and then start that retraining, the better off you will be.
Good luck!
I'm really interested in how this came to pass.
Looking forward; you are most likely going to have to make some sacrifices if you want to retrain. The good news is that the sooner you can work out what it is that you're genuinely interested in and then start that retraining, the better off you will be.
Good luck!
Some good comments/thoughts, thanks for the input rog.
To try and shed some light, I did apply for some (generally automotive themed) graduate schemes post uni, the one I really fancied wrote back to say they closed it that year due to lack of funds (won't name the company but a big enough name to get excited about) I was part way through the assessment centre for another when I was actually offered what became my first 'proper' job on the strength of an old fashioned CV and single interview. I always regretted not asking for more money at that early stage but accepted it as the only people who had actually seemed keen to employ me. I guess it was also more attractive to accept as it didn't really require me to relocate, whereas it seems that most of the automotive sector in the UK is in the midlands, somewhere pretty far from me and where I didn't have an established base or really know anyone at all. For better or worse this turning point was what saw me never go down the path of working with cars.
If you had asked the 5, 10 or possibly even 15 year old me what I would be doing 'when I grow up' you would have got some kind of answer to do with cars, but as it has turned out my interest has only ever been just that, an interest and I now work in something completely unrelated.
Your comment on how it came to pass is spot on. Looking back now I can't believe the uni got away with having such a scant regard/link to the real world of work, and the thing I probably resent the most about the course was lack of chances to explore what working as 'an engineer' would really be like. I feel like I was spat out the other end with no idea what options were available, save for the very classical 'engineering' roles of CAD/design, which never suited me.
I've since worked with placement students (we have some in work now who I'm mentoring) who have a degree that mandates a period (at least 6 months) where they have to go out on placement in industry. I understand architects have something similar. Yeah they might get a few crummy jobs but I would have loved the chance to do this for a stint in the middle of a degree to really get the brain thinking about what to do next. I applied for whatever I could find in summer breaks at uni but always ended up doing some factor/call centre type work to get some cash coming in instead.
Regards retraining, I know, and I can make sacrifices, I'm not afraid of hard work. What's difficult now is that there are some that I can't really make (moving a young family away from our support network/childcare for example).
I've been chewing over what people always say: "find something you love then work out how to make that your career". Which is easy to say, but hard to do.
There are plenty of things I love doing, working on cars, fixing old cars, fixing almost anything in fact, but I think the chances of making a living and having a decent work life balance long term are probably slim. Does anyone actually make money restoring cars for example? I think that my best bet might be to try and take a businesslike approach to a restoration as a hobby, give myself a year of free time and keep an account of everything. If I break even or loose out, at least I had fun trying, but if i show I can make enough for it to be my living then at least there would be some confidence that I could do it again, hand the notice in and get serious, would probably be a pressure to keep a high turnover though, but I would probably thrive on the pressure of a bit of a deadline.
Has anyone tried living this dream?
To try and shed some light, I did apply for some (generally automotive themed) graduate schemes post uni, the one I really fancied wrote back to say they closed it that year due to lack of funds (won't name the company but a big enough name to get excited about) I was part way through the assessment centre for another when I was actually offered what became my first 'proper' job on the strength of an old fashioned CV and single interview. I always regretted not asking for more money at that early stage but accepted it as the only people who had actually seemed keen to employ me. I guess it was also more attractive to accept as it didn't really require me to relocate, whereas it seems that most of the automotive sector in the UK is in the midlands, somewhere pretty far from me and where I didn't have an established base or really know anyone at all. For better or worse this turning point was what saw me never go down the path of working with cars.
If you had asked the 5, 10 or possibly even 15 year old me what I would be doing 'when I grow up' you would have got some kind of answer to do with cars, but as it has turned out my interest has only ever been just that, an interest and I now work in something completely unrelated.
Your comment on how it came to pass is spot on. Looking back now I can't believe the uni got away with having such a scant regard/link to the real world of work, and the thing I probably resent the most about the course was lack of chances to explore what working as 'an engineer' would really be like. I feel like I was spat out the other end with no idea what options were available, save for the very classical 'engineering' roles of CAD/design, which never suited me.
I've since worked with placement students (we have some in work now who I'm mentoring) who have a degree that mandates a period (at least 6 months) where they have to go out on placement in industry. I understand architects have something similar. Yeah they might get a few crummy jobs but I would have loved the chance to do this for a stint in the middle of a degree to really get the brain thinking about what to do next. I applied for whatever I could find in summer breaks at uni but always ended up doing some factor/call centre type work to get some cash coming in instead.
Regards retraining, I know, and I can make sacrifices, I'm not afraid of hard work. What's difficult now is that there are some that I can't really make (moving a young family away from our support network/childcare for example).
I've been chewing over what people always say: "find something you love then work out how to make that your career". Which is easy to say, but hard to do.
There are plenty of things I love doing, working on cars, fixing old cars, fixing almost anything in fact, but I think the chances of making a living and having a decent work life balance long term are probably slim. Does anyone actually make money restoring cars for example? I think that my best bet might be to try and take a businesslike approach to a restoration as a hobby, give myself a year of free time and keep an account of everything. If I break even or loose out, at least I had fun trying, but if i show I can make enough for it to be my living then at least there would be some confidence that I could do it again, hand the notice in and get serious, would probably be a pressure to keep a high turnover though, but I would probably thrive on the pressure of a bit of a deadline.
Has anyone tried living this dream?
So reading between the lines a little.
It sounds like you are 'bored' of your job more than anything else. The other (or perhaps the main?) driver is a desire for more money.
I have been in the same general line of work for 20 years, but I have progressed nicely so the 'boredom' is balanced by the salary. If you go for retraining, this may require a wage drop, and then you may find progression may not come in the new line of work.
If avenues of progression are definitely shut at your current company - I would look for a similar role at another firm, but during interview make sure you mention about progression.
If you are looking for a good hands-on career in engineering, I would recommend the foundry industry. I am degree qualified and found lots of hands-on opportunities but also it called on skills learnt from my degree. So lots of variety and good fun. I have recently moved industries which has been a real eye opener (electronics) and reinvigorated my enthusiasm for getting up on a morning. (I was Engineering and Quality Manager in the foundry industry and now 'just' Quality Manager in the electronics industry)
Mike
It sounds like you are 'bored' of your job more than anything else. The other (or perhaps the main?) driver is a desire for more money.
I have been in the same general line of work for 20 years, but I have progressed nicely so the 'boredom' is balanced by the salary. If you go for retraining, this may require a wage drop, and then you may find progression may not come in the new line of work.
If avenues of progression are definitely shut at your current company - I would look for a similar role at another firm, but during interview make sure you mention about progression.
If you are looking for a good hands-on career in engineering, I would recommend the foundry industry. I am degree qualified and found lots of hands-on opportunities but also it called on skills learnt from my degree. So lots of variety and good fun. I have recently moved industries which has been a real eye opener (electronics) and reinvigorated my enthusiasm for getting up on a morning. (I was Engineering and Quality Manager in the foundry industry and now 'just' Quality Manager in the electronics industry)
Mike
Hi Mike,
I think you've caught my drift... Boredom, yes. More money required, also yes, but I think this is still secondary for me right now. If I could bring home a similar wage and feel more satisfied or motivated then I think that would be alright, and would definitely be worth making a switch. Feeling a bit more positive would also be appreciated by my family more than the money. Selfishly I would love to achieve both (holy grail!?)
You describe 'boredom' being offset by salary and progression, and I guess this is something that seems not to have gone at a pace I would have liked. Ok I only have around half of your experience (about 10 years) but it feels like I haven't managed much to show for it. In some ways this is what makes me think about starting something completely new or building my own business: a real 'change in lifestyle' amount of money is rarely going to come from a 9-5 salary job working for someone else. sure there will be exceptions of course.
I certainly have never considered foundry industry before, total curve ball from where I am now. Without any knowledge is this still something that's growing/expanding in the UK, seems like it might be the kind of thing that could be expected to contract in size over the remainder of my career. Am I wrong? is there a good trade association or somewhere you would recommend that I research?
In terms of progression where I am it feels like I could go on to a few things, but none of the general tracks for more responsibility excite me enough to put the effort in that would be required. This is again what makes me think a change of industry might be a welcome shake up of the norm.
Anyway, got a date for my CEng interview now, so off to read that thread and see if I can get some tips, certainly and endorsement that shouldnt do harm to my prospects of making a change.
Onwards and upwards eh, thanks for pitching in.
I think you've caught my drift... Boredom, yes. More money required, also yes, but I think this is still secondary for me right now. If I could bring home a similar wage and feel more satisfied or motivated then I think that would be alright, and would definitely be worth making a switch. Feeling a bit more positive would also be appreciated by my family more than the money. Selfishly I would love to achieve both (holy grail!?)
You describe 'boredom' being offset by salary and progression, and I guess this is something that seems not to have gone at a pace I would have liked. Ok I only have around half of your experience (about 10 years) but it feels like I haven't managed much to show for it. In some ways this is what makes me think about starting something completely new or building my own business: a real 'change in lifestyle' amount of money is rarely going to come from a 9-5 salary job working for someone else. sure there will be exceptions of course.
I certainly have never considered foundry industry before, total curve ball from where I am now. Without any knowledge is this still something that's growing/expanding in the UK, seems like it might be the kind of thing that could be expected to contract in size over the remainder of my career. Am I wrong? is there a good trade association or somewhere you would recommend that I research?
In terms of progression where I am it feels like I could go on to a few things, but none of the general tracks for more responsibility excite me enough to put the effort in that would be required. This is again what makes me think a change of industry might be a welcome shake up of the norm.
Anyway, got a date for my CEng interview now, so off to read that thread and see if I can get some tips, certainly and endorsement that shouldnt do harm to my prospects of making a change.
Onwards and upwards eh, thanks for pitching in.
bringing this dead thread back to life with something of an update: got confirmation that my interview was successful and that i'm now qualified as CEng.
Did anyone else see a marked change in the way they were treated/roles they were offered after getting this? I'm still a bit cynical about the whole process as it seems to mostly be a bit of an old boys club, still, at least i'm now a member
Did anyone else see a marked change in the way they were treated/roles they were offered after getting this? I'm still a bit cynical about the whole process as it seems to mostly be a bit of an old boys club, still, at least i'm now a member
Hi All, OP here.
Short version:
1. I don't want to be "an Engineer" anymore, or at least not what a 'professional engineer' means in 2020.
2. How have other people who come to this realisation found satisfying gainful employment?
3. How to balance providing for my family with feeling like I enjoy my job?
4. Should I just accept that work doesn't have to define me, do the minimum/make it easy, collect salary and try to forget about it.
Long version:
Bit of a thread revival I admit, a few years have passed and a few things have changed, but some remain similar. Firstly I still enjoy browsing the PH forum, including this section.
To update what has changed in my life/career since I started this thread in 2016;
- The role I was in in 2016 felt easy to the point of being boring, the organisation lacked drive/vision and I felt stuck. I got a couple of promotions but ultimately left. This was a good thing and felt positive.
- I managed to get what I thought was about the best/most interesting/best paid role I could achieve in my industry without relocation.
- I've now been doing this role for around 18 months.
- This role has been really challenging/hard work at times, I certainly couldn't say that it was boring. The pace is fast and it's really only the top 1/3 of my to do list that gets done, which is a sensation I recognise from earlier in my career. This is a 'lead engineer' role.
- I achieved a bit of a salary bump by moving, and finally crossed a threshold which I had felt for a long time would be where I would want to be to feel valued for a 40 hour week.
- For the first time I feel that my pay is enough to enjoy a reasonable lifestyle, save a little and finally not have to stress about money
- The role immediately above me has been vacant for circa 6 months, and I have basically been acting in this role without any formal recognition, a new manager has been appointed and will fill this role shortly - having tried it I am pretty sure I wouldn't want it, even if it was vacant.
While I have generally enjoyed the stretch, and quite enjoy the company/project overall I find myself again dreading work before having to start and really struggling to find my drive and enthusiasm. I think ultimately I am just not a good fit for what 'professional engineering' means. It feels like I am spending almost all of my effort on contracts, or commercial things, endless reporting and slides and 'managing upwards' with almost zero exposure to actual hands on, practical 'engineering' activities. I feel like I am the person who is required to make sure that pertinent technical questions are asked but have very little to do with actually getting anything done.
I have learned a few things about effectively 'sideways' topics, which has been interesting, and I've also had to learn fast about things that I haven't been exposed to before (e.g. contracts) but I certainly haven't come away thinking that i'd rather be a lawyer than en engineer, quite the reverse (no offence meant to the legal bods!).
If I were to describe what I feel like would be the ideal way for me to spend time earning money it would look something like this:
- Working with hands/on something practical. I am happy to do the 'professional' bit and write reports or have meeting etc, but I think I often feel happiest/most satisfied when I'm making something or fixing something that I can touch and feel or at least see things for some of the time. Perhaps a 50/50 split of hands on with something/on a site and desk/office time would be about right.
- Doing something with a sense of achievement/end product/pride, stepping back at the end of the day/week/month and seeing something that is done/finished/better/fixed as a result of something I have done helps me to feel valued.
- Need to earn a decent amount, but I would consider taking a pay cut in exchange for better satisfaction/fewer hours. Currently earn upper 50's, could be happy in the 30's and would go lower for a few years if I thought I could get to/stabilise at around at least 30 - 35k in the long term.
- I quite like the idea of working from home (have enjoyed it recently), at the same time I'm happy to travel, but I need to be realistic, with a young family and a working wife I don't want to be away overnight anything other than very occasionally, like once a month. Id like to be able to be back home most nights and the idea of a rotation style of 2/3 weeks which might have appealed when younger isn't going to be practical now.
- Don't want to relocate my wife has a good contract/position, eldest child in school. I know that this limits my options but I'm not keen to move, particularly as working from home has now been shown to be so straightforward.
- I'm a bit of an introvert but have been able to get over this in a professional sense and would like to think that I am a reasonably well rounded person: whilst I don't want to do it all the time I can write proposals, interpret contracts, present and speak publicly as well as being able to grasp technical concepts and explain 'engineering' type things to non-expert audiences.
What I have considered recently:
- Teacher training for Technology/Design (or maybe science/physics?) for a secondary school. While this is not all that well aligned with the ideal role above, I think it would be a good mix of challenging and at times hopefully very rewarding, and would feel like having a real sense of purpose/doing something worthwhile. I may still apply in the spring, but I want to try and get some exposure/volunteer for a few days to get a better feel for what it would be like. It would mean a significant drop in pay for a few years, but probably manageable. Hopefully schools will still have me as a volunteer even in covid times.
- Trade/craft/apprenticeship (e.g domestic electrician or other 'technician' type role). I would not be the typical entrant for this (too old in mid 30's?) Anecdotally this is physically hard on body/knees/back, and would be very low paid in the beginning, perhaps also hard to get someone to take me on/take me seriously rather than someone younger who they could train up? I think the 3 - 5 year prospects would probably be quite good if I was any good at it.
- Work from home/own small business (e.g. bike repair service, small electronics repair, making something novelty/niche) The actual work would be very satisfying but hard to build a customer base and manage the expectations of the public, also low pay/shoestring type existence. It wouldn't have to be bikes, I like tinkering with cars too but that feels like it would be even harder to make a living. Save perhaps for something very niche where for example a specific part or subsystem regularly requires rebuilding which I could market myself as the 'go to' person for.
I need to acknowledge that this is a really difficult time for employment generally, and that what I have is rather a first world problem of my well paying job not being enjoyable. To an extent this semi anonymous post is a really good outlet, as this is something that I don't really feel comfortable moaning about when several of my friends are having a harder time employment wise with furlough etc. I also don't really have anyone at work who I feel confident opening up about this to, as many would see the role that I have as highly desirable.
Well done for reading this far if you have managed to stay with me, it's been cathartic to write all of this down if nothing else.
Please tell me whatever you think below (including man up and stop whinging if that's all I can do)
Short version:
1. I don't want to be "an Engineer" anymore, or at least not what a 'professional engineer' means in 2020.
2. How have other people who come to this realisation found satisfying gainful employment?
3. How to balance providing for my family with feeling like I enjoy my job?
4. Should I just accept that work doesn't have to define me, do the minimum/make it easy, collect salary and try to forget about it.
Long version:
Bit of a thread revival I admit, a few years have passed and a few things have changed, but some remain similar. Firstly I still enjoy browsing the PH forum, including this section.
To update what has changed in my life/career since I started this thread in 2016;
- The role I was in in 2016 felt easy to the point of being boring, the organisation lacked drive/vision and I felt stuck. I got a couple of promotions but ultimately left. This was a good thing and felt positive.
- I managed to get what I thought was about the best/most interesting/best paid role I could achieve in my industry without relocation.
- I've now been doing this role for around 18 months.
- This role has been really challenging/hard work at times, I certainly couldn't say that it was boring. The pace is fast and it's really only the top 1/3 of my to do list that gets done, which is a sensation I recognise from earlier in my career. This is a 'lead engineer' role.
- I achieved a bit of a salary bump by moving, and finally crossed a threshold which I had felt for a long time would be where I would want to be to feel valued for a 40 hour week.
- For the first time I feel that my pay is enough to enjoy a reasonable lifestyle, save a little and finally not have to stress about money
- The role immediately above me has been vacant for circa 6 months, and I have basically been acting in this role without any formal recognition, a new manager has been appointed and will fill this role shortly - having tried it I am pretty sure I wouldn't want it, even if it was vacant.
While I have generally enjoyed the stretch, and quite enjoy the company/project overall I find myself again dreading work before having to start and really struggling to find my drive and enthusiasm. I think ultimately I am just not a good fit for what 'professional engineering' means. It feels like I am spending almost all of my effort on contracts, or commercial things, endless reporting and slides and 'managing upwards' with almost zero exposure to actual hands on, practical 'engineering' activities. I feel like I am the person who is required to make sure that pertinent technical questions are asked but have very little to do with actually getting anything done.
I have learned a few things about effectively 'sideways' topics, which has been interesting, and I've also had to learn fast about things that I haven't been exposed to before (e.g. contracts) but I certainly haven't come away thinking that i'd rather be a lawyer than en engineer, quite the reverse (no offence meant to the legal bods!).
If I were to describe what I feel like would be the ideal way for me to spend time earning money it would look something like this:
- Working with hands/on something practical. I am happy to do the 'professional' bit and write reports or have meeting etc, but I think I often feel happiest/most satisfied when I'm making something or fixing something that I can touch and feel or at least see things for some of the time. Perhaps a 50/50 split of hands on with something/on a site and desk/office time would be about right.
- Doing something with a sense of achievement/end product/pride, stepping back at the end of the day/week/month and seeing something that is done/finished/better/fixed as a result of something I have done helps me to feel valued.
- Need to earn a decent amount, but I would consider taking a pay cut in exchange for better satisfaction/fewer hours. Currently earn upper 50's, could be happy in the 30's and would go lower for a few years if I thought I could get to/stabilise at around at least 30 - 35k in the long term.
- I quite like the idea of working from home (have enjoyed it recently), at the same time I'm happy to travel, but I need to be realistic, with a young family and a working wife I don't want to be away overnight anything other than very occasionally, like once a month. Id like to be able to be back home most nights and the idea of a rotation style of 2/3 weeks which might have appealed when younger isn't going to be practical now.
- Don't want to relocate my wife has a good contract/position, eldest child in school. I know that this limits my options but I'm not keen to move, particularly as working from home has now been shown to be so straightforward.
- I'm a bit of an introvert but have been able to get over this in a professional sense and would like to think that I am a reasonably well rounded person: whilst I don't want to do it all the time I can write proposals, interpret contracts, present and speak publicly as well as being able to grasp technical concepts and explain 'engineering' type things to non-expert audiences.
What I have considered recently:
- Teacher training for Technology/Design (or maybe science/physics?) for a secondary school. While this is not all that well aligned with the ideal role above, I think it would be a good mix of challenging and at times hopefully very rewarding, and would feel like having a real sense of purpose/doing something worthwhile. I may still apply in the spring, but I want to try and get some exposure/volunteer for a few days to get a better feel for what it would be like. It would mean a significant drop in pay for a few years, but probably manageable. Hopefully schools will still have me as a volunteer even in covid times.
- Trade/craft/apprenticeship (e.g domestic electrician or other 'technician' type role). I would not be the typical entrant for this (too old in mid 30's?) Anecdotally this is physically hard on body/knees/back, and would be very low paid in the beginning, perhaps also hard to get someone to take me on/take me seriously rather than someone younger who they could train up? I think the 3 - 5 year prospects would probably be quite good if I was any good at it.
- Work from home/own small business (e.g. bike repair service, small electronics repair, making something novelty/niche) The actual work would be very satisfying but hard to build a customer base and manage the expectations of the public, also low pay/shoestring type existence. It wouldn't have to be bikes, I like tinkering with cars too but that feels like it would be even harder to make a living. Save perhaps for something very niche where for example a specific part or subsystem regularly requires rebuilding which I could market myself as the 'go to' person for.
I need to acknowledge that this is a really difficult time for employment generally, and that what I have is rather a first world problem of my well paying job not being enjoyable. To an extent this semi anonymous post is a really good outlet, as this is something that I don't really feel comfortable moaning about when several of my friends are having a harder time employment wise with furlough etc. I also don't really have anyone at work who I feel confident opening up about this to, as many would see the role that I have as highly desirable.
Well done for reading this far if you have managed to stay with me, it's been cathartic to write all of this down if nothing else.
Please tell me whatever you think below (including man up and stop whinging if that's all I can do)
I am not based in Glasgow (or the UK) but have had significant responsibility around finance and tech in the city.
I am a Chemical Engineer by education and spent 15 years in the Pharmaceutical industry. In 2016 (how appropriate) I jumped industry and landed in Finance technology based on my business experience. I was hired to implement good financial practices in a bank! As engineers, we have a logical thought process that helps us solve problems and that can be applied to many situations including developing applications and typically developers are not the most outgoing people. Problem solving is really important to me and is one of the only ways I feel like I am contributing.
Glasgow has a surprising number of finance/tech firms paying the kind of salaries that make you pause and think "how much?!?". This is because the tech firms are pulling away from London where the cost of the facility is all that mattered. If I hired in London the cost would be the cost of the desk not the salary. By moving up North, the costs are reduced dramatically. Previously, salaries would have taken a hit when opening the REQ in Scotland, but today the salary cost is comparable because of local competition. Glasgow also has good education that the firms are pulling from.
For me, I did not take the development route but I did actively seek opportunities to develop my own skill set to have a more informed opinion in terms of strategy.Another advantage of going towards tech is that a lot are positively impacted by Covid. I have just jumped ship to a tech company that is growing at an amazing rate.
I am a Chemical Engineer by education and spent 15 years in the Pharmaceutical industry. In 2016 (how appropriate) I jumped industry and landed in Finance technology based on my business experience. I was hired to implement good financial practices in a bank! As engineers, we have a logical thought process that helps us solve problems and that can be applied to many situations including developing applications and typically developers are not the most outgoing people. Problem solving is really important to me and is one of the only ways I feel like I am contributing.
Glasgow has a surprising number of finance/tech firms paying the kind of salaries that make you pause and think "how much?!?". This is because the tech firms are pulling away from London where the cost of the facility is all that mattered. If I hired in London the cost would be the cost of the desk not the salary. By moving up North, the costs are reduced dramatically. Previously, salaries would have taken a hit when opening the REQ in Scotland, but today the salary cost is comparable because of local competition. Glasgow also has good education that the firms are pulling from.
For me, I did not take the development route but I did actively seek opportunities to develop my own skill set to have a more informed opinion in terms of strategy.Another advantage of going towards tech is that a lot are positively impacted by Covid. I have just jumped ship to a tech company that is growing at an amazing rate.
h0b0 said:
I am not based in Glasgow (or the UK) but have had significant responsibility around finance and tech in the city.
I am a Chemical Engineer by education and spent 15 years in the Pharmaceutical industry. In 2016 (how appropriate) I jumped industry and landed in Finance technology based on my business experience. I was hired to implement good financial practices in a bank! As engineers, we have a logical thought process that helps us solve problems and that can be applied to many situations including developing applications and typically developers are not the most outgoing people. Problem solving is really important to me and is one of the only ways I feel like I am contributing.
Glasgow has a surprising number of finance/tech firms paying the kind of salaries that make you pause and think "how much?!?". This is because the tech firms are pulling away from London where the cost of the facility is all that mattered. If I hired in London the cost would be the cost of the desk not the salary. By moving up North, the costs are reduced dramatically. Previously, salaries would have taken a hit when opening the REQ in Scotland, but today the salary cost is comparable because of local competition. Glasgow also has good education that the firms are pulling from.
For me, I did not take the development route but I did actively seek opportunities to develop my own skill set to have a more informed opinion in terms of strategy.Another advantage of going towards tech is that a lot are positively impacted by Covid. I have just jumped ship to a tech company that is growing at an amazing rate.
Bit of a thread hijack but a move to FinTech is something I've been considering, Chartered MEng and qualified PM with 9 years automotive experience (currently working for an EV consultancy). How easy was the move and how did you go about it? I am a Chemical Engineer by education and spent 15 years in the Pharmaceutical industry. In 2016 (how appropriate) I jumped industry and landed in Finance technology based on my business experience. I was hired to implement good financial practices in a bank! As engineers, we have a logical thought process that helps us solve problems and that can be applied to many situations including developing applications and typically developers are not the most outgoing people. Problem solving is really important to me and is one of the only ways I feel like I am contributing.
Glasgow has a surprising number of finance/tech firms paying the kind of salaries that make you pause and think "how much?!?". This is because the tech firms are pulling away from London where the cost of the facility is all that mattered. If I hired in London the cost would be the cost of the desk not the salary. By moving up North, the costs are reduced dramatically. Previously, salaries would have taken a hit when opening the REQ in Scotland, but today the salary cost is comparable because of local competition. Glasgow also has good education that the firms are pulling from.
For me, I did not take the development route but I did actively seek opportunities to develop my own skill set to have a more informed opinion in terms of strategy.Another advantage of going towards tech is that a lot are positively impacted by Covid. I have just jumped ship to a tech company that is growing at an amazing rate.
I have to admit this is a primarily salary focused consideration but I have numerous friends with 'Mickey Mouse' degrees earning far more than I will ever see in my industry. As satisfying as it is at times, there are certainly days where I feel engineering wasn't necessarily the best correct career choice...
Edited by pti on Wednesday 19th August 16:02
It took me 6 years to switch industry. That does include going through phases of not being motivated and then deciding to make an effort. If I was to do it again it may not take anywhere near that amount of time.
I spent too much time focusing on the skills that were already present in the industry. Positioning myself as a project manager for example. They were never going to use an outside project manager when the sector is flooded with PMs already.
Also, it is tempting to put all your experience on the c.v. because it makes you look like a well rounded and extremely experienced professional. In financial services that is not how it works. Each role has a specific/narrow function and each applicant should tailor their c.v. to only focus on those functions.
My resume started out very broad and I wanted to show growth opportunity. The resume that landed me the job was so stripped back it only touched on a fraction of what I could do. But, it was focused on a skill set that was not widely available in financial services. Ironically, knowledge of finance and running an organization as a business.
In the final interview, I was asked "do you have aspirations of management?"
to which I responded "I do, and I have some experience".
"oh, good please elaborate"
"I currently manage a large multi layered organization with $100M budget". That was omitted from my resume. It did not turn out to be an issue but I can say 100% I would not have been considered if it was on my resume. I am not saying lie. Tailoring your resume to the role is expected. I am saying that some skills you may think would seal the deal would be the reason you don't get a phone interview.
On my first day the MD said "I do not know why we need you and that is why we need you".
In short, don't try and emulate what they already have. Plug a gap with skills they don't have. Once there, I got a base level of tech knowledge but never aspired to be an expert.
I spent too much time focusing on the skills that were already present in the industry. Positioning myself as a project manager for example. They were never going to use an outside project manager when the sector is flooded with PMs already.
Also, it is tempting to put all your experience on the c.v. because it makes you look like a well rounded and extremely experienced professional. In financial services that is not how it works. Each role has a specific/narrow function and each applicant should tailor their c.v. to only focus on those functions.
My resume started out very broad and I wanted to show growth opportunity. The resume that landed me the job was so stripped back it only touched on a fraction of what I could do. But, it was focused on a skill set that was not widely available in financial services. Ironically, knowledge of finance and running an organization as a business.
In the final interview, I was asked "do you have aspirations of management?"
to which I responded "I do, and I have some experience".
"oh, good please elaborate"
"I currently manage a large multi layered organization with $100M budget". That was omitted from my resume. It did not turn out to be an issue but I can say 100% I would not have been considered if it was on my resume. I am not saying lie. Tailoring your resume to the role is expected. I am saying that some skills you may think would seal the deal would be the reason you don't get a phone interview.
On my first day the MD said "I do not know why we need you and that is why we need you".
In short, don't try and emulate what they already have. Plug a gap with skills they don't have. Once there, I got a base level of tech knowledge but never aspired to be an expert.
Absolutely fantastic insight, thank you very much.
CV tailoring echoes what my friends in the industry have said, and I have to say mine reads much like your initial one, though it hasn't been outside of engineering yet. Very broad, covering a wide range of skills. It looks ridiculous compared to one sent to me by a friend (his own).
Food for thought indeed, thanks again.
CV tailoring echoes what my friends in the industry have said, and I have to say mine reads much like your initial one, though it hasn't been outside of engineering yet. Very broad, covering a wide range of skills. It looks ridiculous compared to one sent to me by a friend (his own).
Food for thought indeed, thanks again.
pti said:
Absolutely fantastic insight, thank you very much.
CV tailoring echoes what my friends in the industry have said, and I have to say mine reads much like your initial one, though it hasn't been outside of engineering yet. Very broad, covering a wide range of skills. It looks ridiculous compared to one sent to me by a friend (his own).
Food for thought indeed, thanks again.
Tailoring a CV for the role being applied for is essential! And adding in what has been mentioned above (what else can you bring that would add value), as well as writing the CV as if you’re already there doing the job, will help you stand out from the crowd.CV tailoring echoes what my friends in the industry have said, and I have to say mine reads much like your initial one, though it hasn't been outside of engineering yet. Very broad, covering a wide range of skills. It looks ridiculous compared to one sent to me by a friend (his own).
Food for thought indeed, thanks again.
All of this takes time, skill, effort and then a bit more time to get right. Some say looking for a new job is a full time job; give it anything less, then expect less than stellar results.
what__now said:
Hi All, OP here.
Short version:
1. I don't want to be "an Engineer" anymore, or at least not what a 'professional engineer' means in 2020.
2. How have other people who come to this realisation found satisfying gainful employment?
3. How to balance providing for my family with feeling like I enjoy my job?
4. Should I just accept that work doesn't have to define me, do the minimum/make it easy, collect salary and try to forget about it.
I can relate to a lot of your longer version post.Short version:
1. I don't want to be "an Engineer" anymore, or at least not what a 'professional engineer' means in 2020.
2. How have other people who come to this realisation found satisfying gainful employment?
3. How to balance providing for my family with feeling like I enjoy my job?
4. Should I just accept that work doesn't have to define me, do the minimum/make it easy, collect salary and try to forget about it.
I've gone through some very similar thought processes and have not found an answer either!
Mobile Chicane said:
HVAC / Refrigeration. You'll never be out of work.
Good techs are as rare as hen's teeth.
Please elaborate on this, I’m currently a mechanical fitter in the water industry in the cardiff area and I’m looking for a change really. Would be great to get some insider knowledge! Good techs are as rare as hen's teeth.
Gooose said:
Mobile Chicane said:
HVAC / Refrigeration. You'll never be out of work.
Good techs are as rare as hen's teeth.
Please elaborate on this, I’m currently a mechanical fitter in the water industry in the cardiff area and I’m looking for a change really. Would be great to get some insider knowledge! Good techs are as rare as hen's teeth.
The reason that good tech are rare, is because the education system doesn't teach those hands on skills anymore, experienced guys are retiring and employers want direct replacements, not a trainee. They're also asking for a bachelors degree (or rather HR is) for a simple technician role, which means a lot of experienced guys cannot get past HR, the graduates don't want to get dirty and just want to do CAD all day. My employer has been constantly searching for 8 years and only found 2 suitable people in that time, one of which was me.
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