Discrimination of injured military vets?
Discussion
Thought I would discuss this with PH as I know many here were in the military and many work in recruiting and management roles.
I was medically discharged from the Army in 2011 due to spinal injuries. My injuries still affect me but are managed now through medication. I have applied for over 100 jobs now and out of that only got 3 replies. Fair enough, that happens to many people. I went to a CV "expert" who advised not to list medical discharge on the CV and only mention it if it is directly asked why I left the Army. Last CV maker told me to put the medical grounds on the CV as it was relevant to my career gap. I was out of work for a few years due to my injuries but did start studying for my degree at the time. His reasoning for not listing medical was that an employer might think that maybe I have missing legs or limbs or even PTSD. He said it is bloody well illegal but he does see it happen often.
On Monday I sent away my new CV to 17 job applications and I have now had 3 replies within 48 hours. Even have an interview next week, which I am really happy about. So the summary is next to no replies/interest with medical listed and with medical not listed I am now getting interviews.
I know we could never prove this is why an employer won't shortlist my application but it does seem a bit suspect.
Has anybody here encountered or experienced any form of potential discrimination towards disabled people?
I was medically discharged from the Army in 2011 due to spinal injuries. My injuries still affect me but are managed now through medication. I have applied for over 100 jobs now and out of that only got 3 replies. Fair enough, that happens to many people. I went to a CV "expert" who advised not to list medical discharge on the CV and only mention it if it is directly asked why I left the Army. Last CV maker told me to put the medical grounds on the CV as it was relevant to my career gap. I was out of work for a few years due to my injuries but did start studying for my degree at the time. His reasoning for not listing medical was that an employer might think that maybe I have missing legs or limbs or even PTSD. He said it is bloody well illegal but he does see it happen often.
On Monday I sent away my new CV to 17 job applications and I have now had 3 replies within 48 hours. Even have an interview next week, which I am really happy about. So the summary is next to no replies/interest with medical listed and with medical not listed I am now getting interviews.
I know we could never prove this is why an employer won't shortlist my application but it does seem a bit suspect.
Has anybody here encountered or experienced any form of potential discrimination towards disabled people?
How were you describing the medical discharge? I can imagine that if you just wrote "Medicially discharged" without any further details it might have been an issue, since it looked like you were withholding something. I'm not saying that's a correct thing for a recruiter to do because it isn't, but that will be the thought process.
IMO either go into the discharge in full detail, or leave it off completely. Since you can fill the time with "degree study" leaving it off is the best thing to do.
IMO either go into the discharge in full detail, or leave it off completely. Since you can fill the time with "degree study" leaving it off is the best thing to do.
burritoNinja said:
Thought I would discuss this with PH as I know many here were in the military and many work in recruiting and management roles.
I was medically discharged from the Army in 2011 due to spinal injuries. My injuries still affect me but are managed now through medication. I have applied for over 100 jobs now and out of that only got 3 replies. Fair enough, that happens to many people. I went to a CV "expert" who advised not to list medical discharge on the CV and only mention it if it is directly asked why I left the Army. Last CV maker told me to put the medical grounds on the CV as it was relevant to my career gap. I was out of work for a few years due to my injuries but did start studying for my degree at the time. His reasoning for not listing medical was that an employer might think that maybe I have missing legs or limbs or even PTSD. He said it is bloody well illegal but he does see it happen often.
On Monday I sent away my new CV to 17 job applications and I have now had 3 replies within 48 hours. Even have an interview next week, which I am really happy about. So the summary is next to no replies/interest with medical listed and with medical not listed I am now getting interviews.
I know we could never prove this is why an employer won't shortlist my application but it does seem a bit suspect.
Has anybody here encountered or experienced any form of potential discrimination towards disabled people?
Can i ask, where you given any resettlement assistance?did you meet with an IERO?I was medically discharged from the Army in 2011 due to spinal injuries. My injuries still affect me but are managed now through medication. I have applied for over 100 jobs now and out of that only got 3 replies. Fair enough, that happens to many people. I went to a CV "expert" who advised not to list medical discharge on the CV and only mention it if it is directly asked why I left the Army. Last CV maker told me to put the medical grounds on the CV as it was relevant to my career gap. I was out of work for a few years due to my injuries but did start studying for my degree at the time. His reasoning for not listing medical was that an employer might think that maybe I have missing legs or limbs or even PTSD. He said it is bloody well illegal but he does see it happen often.
On Monday I sent away my new CV to 17 job applications and I have now had 3 replies within 48 hours. Even have an interview next week, which I am really happy about. So the summary is next to no replies/interest with medical listed and with medical not listed I am now getting interviews.
I know we could never prove this is why an employer won't shortlist my application but it does seem a bit suspect.
Has anybody here encountered or experienced any form of potential discrimination towards disabled people?
I never had any problems. Was fully up front about it all. And my work is supporting me with appointments and giving me time off when needed. But i can remotely log on from home if needed.
The UK does have the armed forces convention which does mean littlest does mean something for UK vets
The UK does have the armed forces convention which does mean littlest does mean something for UK vets
Just got another reply and offer to interview. So removing my medical discharge really has helped. Shame that.
In the US, military vets usually get put ahead of those who never served. Not saying that is right (I believe in who is best for the role), but the US is very patriotic and less than 1% of the nation even bothers to serve. I have been taking from regualr class to first class whilst traveling just for having been wearing my uniform. Made me feel very uncomfortable. Known a good few who served in the British Army (plenty of my family) and never had any trouble getting a job but they were not injured. Who knows, maybe it was poor wording, maybe there is stigma? My Wife swears blind it is discrimination. Either way, I am just glad that I am now getting a chance.
In the US, military vets usually get put ahead of those who never served. Not saying that is right (I believe in who is best for the role), but the US is very patriotic and less than 1% of the nation even bothers to serve. I have been taking from regualr class to first class whilst traveling just for having been wearing my uniform. Made me feel very uncomfortable. Known a good few who served in the British Army (plenty of my family) and never had any trouble getting a job but they were not injured. Who knows, maybe it was poor wording, maybe there is stigma? My Wife swears blind it is discrimination. Either way, I am just glad that I am now getting a chance.
Charlie1986 said:
I never had any problems. Was fully up front about it all. And my work is supporting me with appointments and giving me time off when needed. But i can remotely log on from home if needed.
The UK does have the armed forces convention which does mean littlest does mean something for UK vets
Thank you for your service. The UK does have the armed forces convention which does mean littlest does mean something for UK vets
Charlie1986 said:
The UK does have the armed forces convention which does mean littlest does mean something for UK vets
Armed Forces 'Covenant' - https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/armed-fo...OP (and others submitting CVs); whether you like it or not, us humans are riddled with prejudices as you have likely experienced first hand. When I'm working with clients to help design their CVs, one of the key tenets is to avoid anything that will likely trigger a negative reaction, consciously or subconsciously, in the reader; there's lots of scope to get this wrong in a CV.
Good luck OP
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: I'm not an employer but if I were going to guess I'd say it's not the military angle rather the "Start work on Monday and promptly go off on sick leave" fears that do occasionally happen.
100%. Ex-military staff are brilliant; I especially appreciate the "no nonsense" attitude a lot of forces people develop, which makes a refreshing change from all of the ridiculous politicking you tend to get in offices. Can't see why you'd declare it on your CV.
As others have said, you have studying for a degree to fill the gap.
Any responsible employer will not ask for such details until they've made a job offer - and even then, it'll be handled by HR / a company medic rather than the hiring manager.
As others have said, you have studying for a degree to fill the gap.
Any responsible employer will not ask for such details until they've made a job offer - and even then, it'll be handled by HR / a company medic rather than the hiring manager.
rog007 is right, a lot of people are just prejudiced, sometimes they don't even realise themselves that they are.
I was shocked recently when I was recruiting for people in my team. I had worked with an Estonia chap previously who was one of the best developers I had ever come across. He had gone to Tallin technical college where they wetre clearly doing something right.
Anyway I was struggling to find good devs so hooked up with a company who were introducing people from Estonia and other baltic states. We did Skype interviews and anyone we liked we flew over for face to face. It gave great access to some really good people.
When other people in my company heard you could see the beneath the surface racism bubbling up. I lost count how many times I was asked "Do they speak English".
Not really relevant to the OPs situation but not everyone is very enlightened and anything on you CV which may bring out some prejudice should be avoided. I have a friend who has an Eastern European name and she has had to change her name by shortening it to something English sounding. As soon as she did that the number of rejections fell.
I sometimes worry that as a group of people we really haven't moved on that much in the last 50 years.
I was shocked recently when I was recruiting for people in my team. I had worked with an Estonia chap previously who was one of the best developers I had ever come across. He had gone to Tallin technical college where they wetre clearly doing something right.
Anyway I was struggling to find good devs so hooked up with a company who were introducing people from Estonia and other baltic states. We did Skype interviews and anyone we liked we flew over for face to face. It gave great access to some really good people.
When other people in my company heard you could see the beneath the surface racism bubbling up. I lost count how many times I was asked "Do they speak English".
Not really relevant to the OPs situation but not everyone is very enlightened and anything on you CV which may bring out some prejudice should be avoided. I have a friend who has an Eastern European name and she has had to change her name by shortening it to something English sounding. As soon as she did that the number of rejections fell.
I sometimes worry that as a group of people we really haven't moved on that much in the last 50 years.
You have to think about your CV as a sales document and think about the environment within which they are read. They are not read in isolation. Anyone looking for candidates to interview will have a pile of them and you dont read one in its entirety, decide to interview and then move on to the next one. They are compared against each other generally and are skim read.
Knowing that you need to set your CV out so that the "buy me" information is in the top half of the first page as this is what generally gets concentrated on (and make it no more than 2 pages). If you have mentioned your medical discharge with no further details in that top half of the page you are going to likely fall foul to the no pile when compared with others purely because you dont fit the norm. Not saying its right but ive coached people around CV's and interviewing for years and have seen it often.
Imagine going into a shop and seeing three fairly similar items that fit your criteria on shelf. The blurb on the box on one tells you how great it is for you blah blah, on the second one it tells you how it will improve your performance etc and on the third box the blurb says toxic if in contact with skin and do not breath in when using. They could all be identical products but which would you buy?
The time to talk about career gaps and medical issues and reasonable adjustments etc is in the interview process not in the sales document regardless of what your issue is that makes you different and that goes for anything not just disability
Good luck with your job search
Knowing that you need to set your CV out so that the "buy me" information is in the top half of the first page as this is what generally gets concentrated on (and make it no more than 2 pages). If you have mentioned your medical discharge with no further details in that top half of the page you are going to likely fall foul to the no pile when compared with others purely because you dont fit the norm. Not saying its right but ive coached people around CV's and interviewing for years and have seen it often.
Imagine going into a shop and seeing three fairly similar items that fit your criteria on shelf. The blurb on the box on one tells you how great it is for you blah blah, on the second one it tells you how it will improve your performance etc and on the third box the blurb says toxic if in contact with skin and do not breath in when using. They could all be identical products but which would you buy?
The time to talk about career gaps and medical issues and reasonable adjustments etc is in the interview process not in the sales document regardless of what your issue is that makes you different and that goes for anything not just disability
Good luck with your job search
davepoth said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I'm not an employer but if I were going to guess I'd say it's not the military angle rather the "Start work on Monday and promptly go off on sick leave" fears that do occasionally happen.
100%. Ex-military staff are brilliant; I especially appreciate the "no nonsense" attitude a lot of forces people develop, which makes a refreshing change from all of the ridiculous politicking you tend to get in offices. Like a few others, I don't think it's an 'ex-military' thing, people do like them generally.
It's never good to declare medical issues on a CV if you can avoid it, as usually recruiters get dozens of CVs for a role and need to whittle them down somehow.
It's not really 'discrimination', it's more 'filtering'. If you have 20 very similar CVs and two mention medical issues, they'll probably be among the ones to go.
If you can get in front of an interviewer and impress, something that happened years ago will have no weight.
Sensible to turn the career gap into study, rather than recovery from injury.
M
It's never good to declare medical issues on a CV if you can avoid it, as usually recruiters get dozens of CVs for a role and need to whittle them down somehow.
It's not really 'discrimination', it's more 'filtering'. If you have 20 very similar CVs and two mention medical issues, they'll probably be among the ones to go.
If you can get in front of an interviewer and impress, something that happened years ago will have no weight.
Sensible to turn the career gap into study, rather than recovery from injury.
M
I had a good interview yesterday for an ideal IT position. They did say that I would hear back either yesterday afternoon or this morning. Now 2.30pm so I will assume I won't be hearing from the recruiter. I connected with the interviewers and felt it went well, but they did not seem very prepared. I was sat waiting for 40 minutes. Interview went on for near 40 minutes. Either way, I continue to apply.
944fan said:
No it REALLY is discrimination
Yes it is but in a process like this it is not always concious discrimination Someone I was coaching to get a new job got filtered out loads for decent jobs in London so I told him to change his address on his CV from Liverpool where he lived to mine in London and within days he was getting interviews. Why was he filtered out before? People assuming he wouldn't relocate? Some kind of ism against scousers? Who knows?!
Same happened to a friend with a Muslim sounding surname so I told her to use her maiden name and she got more replies
You can never know whether it is concious or unconscious bias causing discrimination so my advice is with CVs and applications give them as little reason to filter you out as possible and then deal with anything you need to once an offer letter has been given.
Thanks for your service brother. Active duty Army here. When you ets'd did you go tho acap? They should have squared you away. Acap is now called the soldier for life program. I'm not close to ets'ing but my friends and one of my soldier's is acapping. If there is anything I can do, email me from my profile.
If you come back make sure you list the medical discharge, you sacrificed a part of your life and employers, especially veteran employers will give your priority (which they should).
Since you was med boarded did you get your g.i. bill?
Every week on post they have job fairs for acappers and i've been told there's a lot of them signing people on the spot. I'm sure as a vet you can walk in.
Have a hoah day!
If you come back make sure you list the medical discharge, you sacrificed a part of your life and employers, especially veteran employers will give your priority (which they should).
Since you was med boarded did you get your g.i. bill?
Every week on post they have job fairs for acappers and i've been told there's a lot of them signing people on the spot. I'm sure as a vet you can walk in.
Have a hoah day!
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