Can employer force you to stay on site during PAID break?

[Petrolhead_Rich]

Worked in current job for 4 & 1/2 years, about a year in we were TUPE'd as the company was purchased by a large multinational corporation.

Worked for said corporation for 3 years almost to the day now, every day I have worked there, I have gone to the sandwich shop 1/4 mile down the road for my break, clocking out and in within the 20 minutes allocated. This is widely known and I'm even often asked by our site manager to get a sandwich for him or other staff when I go!

Yesterday was told that there is a rule saying if we have a paid break we cannot leave site, and therefore I can't goto the sandwich shop for food. This has come from our HR department and everyone on site including both my line manager and site manager think it's ridiculous!

This just seems petty and ridiculous (and probably about as legally enforceable as a unicorn!), but they claim that because it's a paid break, they can make me stay on site (this is their only justification - I've asked several times!)

Apparently my only other option is to change my employment contract to a salaried (rather than hourly) contract, but then I won't get paid overtime & there would be a few other minor changes (for the worse!)

Main question is, can they verbally enforce this rule, or can the enforce it at all for that matter? Can they make me stay on site just because they feel like it? Surely it's a change in working conditions and at the very least needs to be put in writing (again, asked for this, they just refuse saying well, you've been told, why do you need it in writing?)

This is the latest in a long line of globally introduced stupid rules (including the exact specification of cup we can drink from) so at the moment I'm looking for alternative employment as a backup plan, but in the meantime it would be nice to quote some legislation and carry on going for my traditional sandwich break (just to get out of the sthole for 5 minutes!!), at least until I can find somewhere else to work!

Thanks in advance!!

[slow_poke]

Quote the phrase "Custom and Practice" to HR, and see what they say then.

[dudleybloke]

Demand trial by combat.

[battered]

Yes they can. You are paid to be there. If you want to leave site you need the ok from yr manager. Leaving site without permission is gross mis, so be very sure to get the ok.

[CoolHands]

Is it because you spend the 20 minutes paid break going to buy the sandwich, then the next 20 mins of work-time eating it?

[phil-sti]

my dinner is unpaid so i can do what i want but they do have a right to say you can't leave site if they are paying you.

[Petrolhead_Rich]

CoolHands said:

Is it because you spend the 20 minutes paid break going to buy the sandwich, then the next 20 mins of work-time eating it?

No, I always get & eat the sandwich within the 20 minutes, something both my line manager & site manager have agreed, in fact usually I'm done within 10-15 minutes and back working.

The issue is that the clocking in system, if you clock out to go off site, deducts the 5-10 minutes off my hours and shows it as unauthorised absence, apparently this is the problem and why they have raised it, because my hours show repeated 8-10 minute un-explained absence, which is what HR first questioned with my site manager, who replied, "yes he goes off site for a sandwich", at which point this previously unheard of rule appeared!

[Petrolhead_Rich]

battered said:

Yes they can. You are paid to be there. If you want to leave site you need the ok from yr manager. Leaving site without permission is gross mis, so be very sure to get the ok.

Well, that sucks, but thanks, guess I'll have to find another job then and tell them to inset their on-site break where the sun doesn't shine, along with all the other petty childish crap we get told each week!

[parabolica]

Are there other employees who do the same as you? Have they been told the same?

Seems like a pretty stty rule and that's coming from someone who works in HR!

[mph1977]

paid breaks are somewhat discretionary and you cvan be required to remain available , this is what all the st fights and tabloid mud slinging over ambulance crews on UNpaid breaks not being alerted to calls came from.

[anonymous-user]

mph1977 said:

paid breaks are somewhat discretionary and you cvan be required to remain available , this is what all the st fights and tabloid mud slinging over ambulance crews on UNpaid breaks not being alerted to calls came from.

And the joys of Highways England "expected" their patrol staff on unpaid breaks to listen to the radio and respond.

[condor]

Could you ask the sandwich shop if they do a delivery service? or aren't there enough employees to make it worth their while?

[55palfers]

Has your company been mentioned in any Dickens novels?

[battered]

55palfers said:

Has your company been mentioned in any Dickens novels?

It's not about being Dickensian, it's about knowing where people are. If there's a fire the forst thing the fire brigade ask is "who's in the building?" The fire warden's job is to do a head count and account for all the bodies. If one of them is in the butty shop but still on the clock as "on site" then I don't want to be the firelighter sent into the burning building to "rescue" him.

It's a paid break. Either get a ticket to leave site or get your butty beforehand. A reasonable line manager will do the former, I would.

[snobetter]

Is having an unpaid break an option? Start or finish 20 mins earlier / later in the day to avoid loss of pay?

[NormalWisdom]

battered said:

It's not about being Dickensian, it's about knowing where people are. If there's a fire the forst thing the fire brigade ask is "who's in the building?" The fire warden's job is to do a head count and account for all the bodies. If one of them is in the butty shop but still on the clock as "on site" then I don't want to be the firelighter sent into the burning building to "rescue" him.

It's a paid break. Either get a ticket to leave site or get your butty beforehand. A reasonable line manager will do the former, I would.

He clocks out, record is there

Dumb rule, HR continuing to get ideas well above their station. It all went pear-shaped the moment they stopped being Personnel!

[Dan_1981]

battered said:

55palfers said:

Has your company been mentioned in any Dickens novels?

It's not about being Dickensian, it's about knowing where people are. If there's a fire the forst thing the fire brigade ask is "who's in the building?" The fire warden's job is to do a head count and account for all the bodies. If one of them is in the butty shop but still on the clock as "on site" then I don't want to be the firelighter sent into the burning building to "rescue" him.

It's a paid break. Either get a ticket to leave site or get your butty beforehand. A reasonable line manager will do the former, I would.

He is doing though isn't he?

He's clocking out so the fire register wouldn't show him on site.

I can see their point though - you're paid to be on site - you're not on site.

[battered]

He's said above, if he clocks out he loses 15 minutes paid time and HR start bothering him about unauthorised clocking off. This is a paid break so he has to be clocked on to get paid.

[ATG]

Your manager should tell your HR people to stop being so bloody stupid.

[chrisb92]

battered said:

He's said above, if he clocks out he loses 15 minutes paid time and HR start bothering him about unauthorised clocking off. This is a paid break so he has to be clocked on to get paid.

I bet you're a hoot to work for.

This is just nonsense OP. I'd go looking for another job too, as you know full well more stty rules will be in place in the near future! Way to keep the staff happy eh?