Using the Internet at work
Discussion
Sheets Tabuer said:
Countdown said:
In my opinion the people who the firm needs/values will be left alone.
Surely a law firm would never do this, if one employee was dismissed for internet use yet it is ignored for others then is it not constructive dismissal? The fact that the employer may ignore other staff is irrelevant.
Besides, lets say the dismissed member of staff wants to claim unfair or constructive dismissal on the basis they let the other bloke do it - how could they prove the other guy wasn't disciplined and/or that his internet usage was the same/worse than their own ?
princeperch said:
But what is too much? What if you can still do your job/ had good appraisals / but by chance they check your internet records?
I'd say no amount is too much.All that should matter (in this respect) is if you get the job done. I have browsing the internet while at work down to a fine art, I probably get through more content than many do when they're not working. Occasionally I spend time working on air gapped networks, it just results in me spending more time looking out the window or watching the clock and thinking about how I can work elsewhere.
I work in IT and for the most part companies in this field are pretty liberal. Nothing offensive to colleagues and get your work done then no problem.
I've seen people stream News24 /YouTube Music all day and nobody bats an eyebrow. Context is everything I think and I suspect the cases you mention are using it as an reason, and they are being managed out.
I did some consulting for the Home Office and they block pretty much everything, include sites providing technical info and the open source software used by the project as a 'hacking' site.
I've seen people stream News24 /YouTube Music all day and nobody bats an eyebrow. Context is everything I think and I suspect the cases you mention are using it as an reason, and they are being managed out.
I did some consulting for the Home Office and they block pretty much everything, include sites providing technical info and the open source software used by the project as a 'hacking' site.
About two years ago, Russia instituted sanctions on a lot of food products. I work at a food manufacturer, and was slacking off reading the news at the exact moment it happened - we knew about it hours before we would have otherwise realised, which saved us thousands of pounds.
That's how I justify it, anyway.
That's how I justify it, anyway.
Crafty_ said:
Sheets Tabuer said:
Countdown said:
In my opinion the people who the firm needs/values will be left alone.
Surely a law firm would never do this, if one employee was dismissed for internet use yet it is ignored for others then is it not constructive dismissal? The fact that the employer may ignore other staff is irrelevant.
Besides, lets say the dismissed member of staff wants to claim unfair or constructive dismissal on the basis they let the other bloke do it - how could they prove the other guy wasn't disciplined and/or that his internet usage was the same/worse than their own ?
Thats the reason we have three tiers of access and that access is written in to your contract.
Of course it could be all HR bull but I manage it all for them.
Edited by Sheets Tabuer on Wednesday 7th September 20:05
Sheets Tabuer said:
You assume everyone is dishonest I can assure you our firm spends a fortune with lawyers and that's exactly the the advice we got and no one in their right mind from HR is going to lie to a tribunal, that's pretty much case closed in the other parties favour plus costs which with a barrister defending can be eye watering.
So how is the dismissed person going to know that the other guy was breaking the rules and hasn't been disciplined for it ?This is a debate going on at work atm, IT staff gave out Wi-Fi password, everyone used it, MD got pissed off and now everyone is getting b
ked.
You know it's lunch time beacuse you can't get any work done as the Wi-Fi is at max capacity.
I got 5GB of mobile data for a reason, I'm the only one who doesn't use it
ked.You know it's lunch time beacuse you can't get any work done as the Wi-Fi is at max capacity.
I got 5GB of mobile data for a reason, I'm the only one who doesn't use it
IME
So long as you aren't going on Porn or FaceAche and are just reading about a hobby or the news pages. The companies I've worked for have been ok with it. Obviously with the caveat about when you use it.
Whats funny is that one employer. Facebook was banned. And so was the Daily Mails site. And actually at one point the companies OWN website. But any number of porn sites were fine
So long as you aren't going on Porn or FaceAche and are just reading about a hobby or the news pages. The companies I've worked for have been ok with it. Obviously with the caveat about when you use it.
Whats funny is that one employer. Facebook was banned. And so was the Daily Mails site. And actually at one point the companies OWN website. But any number of porn sites were fine
Edited by Rich_W on Sunday 11th September 18:05
I lead the technology team at work - so in essence set the real world policy and police it.
For years I was all for laissez-faire, treat people like adults etc
However of late I have become shocked at the massive waste of time and network resource.
I recently produced a list of most data used sites - the highest work related one was seventeen on the list.
The top 10 equated to nearly 3TB of data use in one month.
Something needs to be done - personal mobiles with unlimited data doesn't help.......
For years I was all for laissez-faire, treat people like adults etc
However of late I have become shocked at the massive waste of time and network resource.
I recently produced a list of most data used sites - the highest work related one was seventeen on the list.
The top 10 equated to nearly 3TB of data use in one month.
Something needs to be done - personal mobiles with unlimited data doesn't help.......
Wilmslowboy said:
I lead the technology team at work - so in essence set the real world policy and police it.
For years I was all for laissez-faire, treat people like adults etc
However of late I have become shocked at the massive waste of time and network resource.
I recently produced a list of most data used sites - the highest work related one was seventeen on the list.
The top 10 equated to nearly 3TB of data use in one month.
Something needs to be done - personal mobiles with unlimited data doesn't help.......
Why would you care though?For years I was all for laissez-faire, treat people like adults etc
However of late I have become shocked at the massive waste of time and network resource.
I recently produced a list of most data used sites - the highest work related one was seventeen on the list.
The top 10 equated to nearly 3TB of data use in one month.
Something needs to be done - personal mobiles with unlimited data doesn't help.......
What I mean by that is in the days before the internet I'm assuming people would still find ways to slack off but nobody went around the business totting up all the copies of the Daily Mail or fag breaks or whatever else people were doing.
IT makes it easy to produce "Oh the humanity" numbers really quickly and of course maybe it's easier to jump on the internet for a few minutes here and there, but I still don't think of it as an IT issue so much as a management issue.
Wilmslowboy said:
I lead the technology team at work - so in essence set the real world policy and police it.
For years I was all for laissez-faire, treat people like adults etc
However of late I have become shocked at the massive waste of time and network resource.
I recently produced a list of most data used sites - the highest work related one was seventeen on the list.
The top 10 equated to nearly 3TB of data use in one month.
Something needs to be done - personal mobiles with unlimited data doesn't help.......
I can completely believe that.For years I was all for laissez-faire, treat people like adults etc
However of late I have become shocked at the massive waste of time and network resource.
I recently produced a list of most data used sites - the highest work related one was seventeen on the list.
The top 10 equated to nearly 3TB of data use in one month.
Something needs to be done - personal mobiles with unlimited data doesn't help.......
The amount of time I've watched people waste at work on the internet is staggering.
It is one that everyone needs to be very mindful of. Usually companies have an attitude of 'if you don't take the piss then we wont', however, if they need/ want a reason to get rid of staff/ you, it's a very easy one to pull people up on - misconduct by misuse of company internet.
It happened to me some ten years ago when the company I worked for had lost £2million, and needed to cut the wage bill. Luckily I managed to prove that I was at the lower level of internet 'abuse', and that being pulled up on it when others weren't was essentially victimisation. If I were ever employed again (I'm self employed now) I would always limit internet use to my phone, breaks or lunchtimes, and document these times in my diary.
It happened to me some ten years ago when the company I worked for had lost £2million, and needed to cut the wage bill. Luckily I managed to prove that I was at the lower level of internet 'abuse', and that being pulled up on it when others weren't was essentially victimisation. If I were ever employed again (I'm self employed now) I would always limit internet use to my phone, breaks or lunchtimes, and document these times in my diary.
Our system is very secure but allows internet usage apart from social media sites etc.
But it uses a satelite link so can be a little slow. I can stream Youtube music vids sometimes but can lag a little.
Policy is, you can use it as long as you get your work done.
We also have a separate wifi link internet which our phones/tablets can link to but again that is sat connected so that can be a little slow. I use that for internet radio connected to a Bose bluetooth speaker in the office.
Again, no restriction on that usage apart from do not go near porn sites!!!
But it uses a satelite link so can be a little slow. I can stream Youtube music vids sometimes but can lag a little.
Policy is, you can use it as long as you get your work done.
We also have a separate wifi link internet which our phones/tablets can link to but again that is sat connected so that can be a little slow. I use that for internet radio connected to a Bose bluetooth speaker in the office.
Again, no restriction on that usage apart from do not go near porn sites!!!
The difference between the days of people reading the daily paper and people browsing the internet is
a) It was patently obvious someone was sitting back from their desk reading the paper. Or even poring over their desk reading the paper. Papers not being the same size or print as office documents. But browsing a website with ad-blockers installed - not really visible to anyone else in the office.
b) When you had a 20-page paper it really didn't take that long to read it, after which you pretty much had to get back to work. Or find something else to goof off on. But the internet is a bottomless pit of distraction. The entire day can slip by following a "I'll just have a quick browse".
c) The generation who only had a paper grew up in a world where you had to focus a lot more and concentrate. E.g. writing essays by visiting a library, writing notes out longhand, then collating them into a hand-written essay (hence probably writing it twice). Today's younger generation have never known a world without the internet, instant gratification, immediate distractions and context-switching between multiple different things, hoping from one interesting snippet to another. Work is still generally a task which requires concentration and effort.
Hence it becomes necessary to police it. Either through direct line management (the best way) or by heavy-handed IT policies (the worst and lease effective way).
Bear in mind also that most large corporates will have compliance requirements and even small firms supplying those large corporates are likely to have to comply with the same mildly bonkers IT Security policies full of auditing and control requirements - SAS70 and later iterations, primarily there to justify lots of auditors and other people who the big consulting & outsourcing firms can supply.
a) It was patently obvious someone was sitting back from their desk reading the paper. Or even poring over their desk reading the paper. Papers not being the same size or print as office documents. But browsing a website with ad-blockers installed - not really visible to anyone else in the office.
b) When you had a 20-page paper it really didn't take that long to read it, after which you pretty much had to get back to work. Or find something else to goof off on. But the internet is a bottomless pit of distraction. The entire day can slip by following a "I'll just have a quick browse".
c) The generation who only had a paper grew up in a world where you had to focus a lot more and concentrate. E.g. writing essays by visiting a library, writing notes out longhand, then collating them into a hand-written essay (hence probably writing it twice). Today's younger generation have never known a world without the internet, instant gratification, immediate distractions and context-switching between multiple different things, hoping from one interesting snippet to another. Work is still generally a task which requires concentration and effort.
Hence it becomes necessary to police it. Either through direct line management (the best way) or by heavy-handed IT policies (the worst and lease effective way).
Bear in mind also that most large corporates will have compliance requirements and even small firms supplying those large corporates are likely to have to comply with the same mildly bonkers IT Security policies full of auditing and control requirements - SAS70 and later iterations, primarily there to justify lots of auditors and other people who the big consulting & outsourcing firms can supply.
Flooble said:
Bear in mind also that most large corporates will have compliance requirements and even small firms supplying those large corporates are likely to have to comply with the same mildly bonkers IT Security policies full of auditing and control requirements - SAS70 and later iterations, primarily there to justify lots of auditors and other people who the big consulting & outsourcing firms can supply.
While that may have been the case immediately post-SOX, fortunately these days it is the exception rather the rule that a corporate would mandate specific supplier IT controls over and above any applicable industry baselines. The main reason that a corporate customer would require a supplier to adhere to SAS70 etc would be if the supplier provides a service that supports the internal control environment of the customer. In that event the requirement is typically that a report is provided that is either unqualified or with acceptable deviations.bga said:
While that may have been the case immediately post-SOX, fortunately these days it is the exception rather the rule that a corporate would mandate specific supplier IT controls over and above any applicable industry baselines. The main reason that a corporate customer would require a supplier to adhere to SAS70 etc would be if the supplier provides a service that supports the internal control environment of the customer. In that event the requirement is typically that a report is provided that is either unqualified or with acceptable deviations.
Wish that had been the case at the places I have worked (small consultancies). At each one we've been hit by several customers with massive documents to complete demanding all our policies on everything and anything. Best one was when I worked for a small two-man consultancy (literally me and a mate) and they wanted us to detail our ID card policy for determining unauthorised visitors. They actually made a physical visit and the auditor was really put out that we didn't have a visitor log for our tiny little office.My work has a pretty strict, no recreation during work time policies. You are not supposed to have your phone/wallet or any other personal effects on your person unless on your break (lockers are provided but never actually open). Needless too say nobody actually follows the policies and many semi frequently glance at there phones. Management have used it in the past to get rid of people they dont like.
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