Career at an end, what now?

[ChasW]

Undirection said:

battered said:

This rate is typical for middle management, often more. If you are unemployed, why not? Set up cost is nil if yuo have a phone and a computer, off you go. I've been an interim for 5 years now, it's great.

This would work for me but are you known for interim work now or do you apply for interim roles or do you just have you CV on all the main sites with 'looking for interim contracts'?

Based on extremely limited experience of bidding for interim contracts timing is everything. I have missed a couple that were right up my street because the agency had already submitted a first tranche of proposals/CVs within days of advertising and did not want to distract the client unless that tranche were mostly or all rejected.

[blindswelledrat]

BGARK said:

I too have read with interest until the salary point came up. To be brutal why would any company pay that these days unless its within a very small percentage of large companies that need someone to hit the ground running quickly, when for example a younger person might start on £25k+ and within 6 months be trained to fulfil the roles required, also with bonus or commission processes as an incentive, yes it could take them over £50k but they would need to work hard for it not just be given the money on a plate?

Because they always have? Experienced people have always been paid more than inexperienced ones because....well they have experience.
The option has always existed to employ younger people and train them.
My point is that nothing has changed and yet with words like 'nowadays' you suggest that something has now changed and companies aren't interested in experienced people and inexperienced cheaper people are somehow better.
I don't get your point

[BGARK]

blindswelledrat said:

Because they always have? Experienced people have always been paid more than inexperienced ones because....well they have experience.
The option has always existed to employ younger people and train them.
My point is that nothing has changed and yet with words like 'nowadays' you suggest that something has now changed and companies aren't interested in experienced people and inexperienced cheaper people are somehow better.
I don't get your point

True and I should have worded better. There do seem to be people that are skilled that struggle for some reason, as has been discussed there isn't always a clear answer.

I employed an ops manager a while ago on £47k who on paper was fantastic, presented and spoke eloquently in interviews. In theory he was great, in the real world he was terrible and I got rid quick..

[blindswelledrat]

BGARK said:

blindswelledrat said:

Because they always have? Experienced people have always been paid more than inexperienced ones because....well they have experience.
The option has always existed to employ younger people and train them.
My point is that nothing has changed and yet with words like 'nowadays' you suggest that something has now changed and companies aren't interested in experienced people and inexperienced cheaper people are somehow better.
I don't get your point

True and I should have worded better. There do seem to be people that are skilled that struggle for some reason, as has been discussed there isn't always a clear answer.

I employed an ops manager a while ago on £47k who on paper was fantastic, presented and spoke eloquently in interviews. In theory he was great, in the real world he was terrible and I got rid quick..

I see your point. My guess, and my own perspective on this, is that for an average SME the benefits of 'experience' are not usually worth the cost of it and it is not only significantly cheaper to train someone up but you get to train them exactly according to how your company works.
I think it is different for larger companies. I don't know, maybe I am just waffling.

[Trophy Husband]

I'm 49 and worked as higher management within the construction industry. 3 years ago I recognised that my skills were underused by my employer ie. my role was beneath me although well paid. I sat down and worked out what I could expect in salary progression if my role remained roughly the same for the remainder of my working life and it depressed me to the point of jacking, setting up my own construction company (civil engineering and ground-works) and whilst the first three years have been hard with less money coming in, no car allowance, no holiday pay etc we are on the cusp of success. We have self funded with no leverage whatsoever and have gone from £60k jobs to £600k jobs in three years. I can drop my boys (6 and 4) off at school 3 days a week and pick them up 2 days a week. 48 is no age to be throwing the towel in, it's just a ripe time for an attitude adjustment. You can't learn wisdom, it comes with experience, this is YOUR unique selling point at your age. There's no way I could have done what I have done 10 years ago. In your position it seems to me a no brainer to have a stab at things on your own. It was a leap in the dark for me going from a good salary to not knowing what I could earn in year 1. As it was, I was able to pay myself a decent salary from month 1 and this has remained the same since and hopefully will be even better next year with a good dividend due. You are already in the dark so stick your chin out and take a risk that isn't even a risk when you have nothing to lose. Good luck.

[Joey Ramone]

Trophy Husband said:

I'm 49 and worked as higher management within the construction industry. 3 years ago I recognised that my skills were underused by my employer ie. my role was beneath me although well paid. I sat down and worked out what I could expect in salary progression if my role remained roughly the same for the remainder of my working life and it depressed me to the point of jacking, setting up my own construction company (civil engineering and ground-works) and whilst the first three years have been hard with less money coming in, no car allowance, no holiday pay etc we are on the cusp of success. We have self funded with no leverage whatsoever and have gone from £60k jobs to £600k jobs in three years. I can drop my boys (6 and 4) off at school 3 days a week and pick them up 2 days a week. 48 is no age to be throwing the towel in, it's just a ripe time for an attitude adjustment. You can't learn wisdom, it comes with experience, this is YOUR unique selling point at your age. There's no way I could have done what I have done 10 years ago. In your position it seems to me a no brainer to have a stab at things on your own. It was a leap in the dark for me going from a good salary to not knowing what I could earn in year 1. As it was, I was able to pay myself a decent salary from month 1 and this has remained the same since and hopefully will be even better next year with a good dividend due. You are already in the dark so stick your chin out and take a risk that isn't even a risk when you have nothing to lose. Good luck.

Just out of interest, and simply going by your username, does your wife earn well?

The reason I ask is that a partner who earns a good wage allows a degree of flexibility in how one might seek to take advantage of potential opportunities

[Trophy Husband]

Joey Ramone said:

Trophy Husband said:

I'm 49 and worked as higher management within the construction industry. 3 years ago I recognised that my skills were underused by my employer ie. my role was beneath me although well paid. I sat down and worked out what I could expect in salary progression if my role remained roughly the same for the remainder of my working life and it depressed me to the point of jacking, setting up my own construction company (civil engineering and ground-works) and whilst the first three years have been hard with less money coming in, no car allowance, no holiday pay etc we are on the cusp of success. We have self funded with no leverage whatsoever and have gone from £60k jobs to £600k jobs in three years. I can drop my boys (6 and 4) off at school 3 days a week and pick them up 2 days a week. 48 is no age to be throwing the towel in, it's just a ripe time for an attitude adjustment. You can't learn wisdom, it comes with experience, this is YOUR unique selling point at your age. There's no way I could have done what I have done 10 years ago. In your position it seems to me a no brainer to have a stab at things on your own. It was a leap in the dark for me going from a good salary to not knowing what I could earn in year 1. As it was, I was able to pay myself a decent salary from month 1 and this has remained the same since and hopefully will be even better next year with a good dividend due. You are already in the dark so stick your chin out and take a risk that isn't even a risk when you have nothing to lose. Good luck.

Just out of interest, and simply going by your username, does your wife earn well?

The reason I ask is that a partner who earns a good wage allows a degree of flexibility in how one might seek to take advantage of potential opportunities

My wife works for the NHS in CAMHS in a senior managerial role working with adolescents with mental health problems. She earns a good salary and obviously has impregnable security of work. I've earned £25k more than I am now but we just s-punked that up the wall or down the bog! I had to work away from home a lot for my earnings previously which will never happen again. It was a case of 'how much do you need' and what can we happily survive on with 2 young children. It's surprising how much you can cut your cloth. We've saved £200/month shopping at Aldi/Lidl.
My username is because I have a Clio Trophy sitting at home which hasn't moved for 6 years and my wife thinks I've secretly married it because despite it not moving I love the thing to bits and often sit in it with a beer just imagining getting it back on the road when my 9 points are off my licence!

[battered]

I understand that the OP is concerned about his age but as others have said age begets wisdom. 48 is no big deal. I spent most of yesterday between the factory and the conferenece room, sorting out a quality problem. There were 5 of us involved, all of us had some grey hairs and none of us were under 40. 2 are approaching 60 and retiring soon, though they are in great demand for work. Another was 50ish, I was second youngest at late 40's. The site director joined us towards the end, again no change from 50. I didn't see any 6th form work experience boys contributing.

Now OK, marketing attracts the young and they have their place in it. Social media and being on-trend will always be the preserve of the young, and there are some roles (recruitment springs to mind) where attractive young women are a staple. I can ring Colin, aged 40, or I can ring Sophie, Chloe or Scarlett, all of whom are about 25 and judging by their LinkedIn photos dazzling, all of whom can put me in touch with the work I need. Scarlett's passing my way and buying coffee and cakes, wants to meet. Good enough. Colin can f* off. Some things never change. However, if I want a wise head to help me come up with a solution, I'll leave Scarlett at the cake shop and get someone in who's been around long enough to know what they're doing.

[mr_spock]

Not sure if the OP is still around. I may be able to offer him some relevant work, possibly a perm job. I have PMed with no reply.

OP, if you're still there, PM me please.

[battered]

ChasW said:

Based on extremely limited experience of bidding for interim contracts timing is everything. I have missed a couple that were right up my street because the agency had already submitted a first tranche of proposals/CVs within days of advertising and did not want to distract the client unless that tranche were mostly or all rejected.

This sort of thing is currency in interim. If they want you, they want you NOW or not at all. The agencies all fire in CVs very quickly, once they have half a dozen that look OK they pull the drawbridge up. If yours is on the stack, happy days. If not then look elsewhere. Factor in that the holders of the purse strings will only press the green button when they are persuaded that nobody internally can do it and that they are going to have to spend the money regardless or the wheels are coming off, and you have a frustrating market that comes and goes around debates of who pays, how much, we can do this internally, what about my mate Bob, and so on. I missed out on one because the MD looked at the sums of money involved and said "F*** this, for that money I'll get my wife in" so gave it to her. I'm pretty convinced it didn't go spectacularly well, and if I'm dealing with people who make those sorts of decisions then I'm better off out of it, but that's the sort of thing that goes on.

[22]

I'm in a similar position work-wise (and I'm mid-forties), looking for something to really get my teeth into, but thankfully with the luxury of another income. I've worked in big brand event-based marketing and have been looking for either a management/marketing job in the charity sector or something completely on a tangent to give myself a new adventure. I'm only applying for jobs I really like the look of and, like you, I think my CV is impressive but I've not had a PAYE job since the nineties and I think that's my big stumbling block. I've earned some decent pennies over the years, but have been applying for interesting-looking jobs with pretty much any wage. Through recruiters you may appear over-qualified, but applying directly they must know you're happy with the money offered.

[Fab32]

DSLiverpool said:

Discussed this weekend, order for stock placed, website being built by herself with banner help from our designer as a favour. They have 800 facebook friends and a product under £5 that anyone would want, if 200 friends share the new website and those friends share it to 10 more friends etc etc - it will work for her, its an item she loves using and is already preparing a you tube channel now.

It really depends if you HAVE to be earning full wack right now - if so trying your own path isnt for you, I am 6 months in to my new venture and its not covering the school fees (yet) but it will and very soon ...... but 6 months of not much isnt for everyone.

someone I may know?

[C70R]

Going back to the OP, at your age/career-stage location will be the kicker for you.
The level of clientside role you're looking for is the sort of thing that someone your age is going to be settling into with one eye on retirement and no thoughts of leaving. Given that the North-East isn't exactly awash with companies/opportunities, you're effectively looking at a very small number of roles.

In your position, I would do one of the following:

• Broaden my search area. Consider doing a split office/home job with a longer train commute to somewhere like Birmingham/Manchester, where jobs are more prevalent.
• Chase down every agency you can find in a 50-mile (or more) radius, and look for an open door via maternity cover (a realistic prospect in this kind of role) or contracting/temping.

Good luck, and do keep the thread updated.

[Undirection]

UPDATE: As I know a few of you have been following this, and thanks for all the PMs by the way, I thought I'd grab a moment to update you.

So, it’s been a bit of a rollercoaster. In 2016 I applied for a marketing role with a rapidly expanding agency and ended up being brought in to manage all their client services. It all happened in a matter of days. What I soon realised was that they were a complete mess! The company MD was AWOL most of the time, I had 25 direct reports who had not had a manager for many months and had gone a bit ‘feral’. They had a global software launch which was months behind time and when it launched the tech team pissed off on hols and the marketing team had had enough of working on it. This essentially meant I had to bring 25 staff back into line, focus them on their jobs, focus them on launching this new software, get them to do the marketing department’s work, recruit new staff urgently (as there was strong international demand from other countries), train new staff in a product I barely knew myself, the list goes on… After we missed launching in one country the GM blamed me and that was that. It was not my fault but…TBH the staff were great and I had some really nice messages from them but I wasn’t disappointed to be gone tbh.

On to Nov this year and I secured a new job in a company, which I left last Friday. It was a great culture of work hard/play hard but in Jan they realised that their digital agency had cost £17k plus £40k in crap PPC and we were performing worse since they had worked on our account (cue very awkward meeting with them – and that was the end of them) and a huge target for the year for sales which the company missed by a country a mile, putting everyone under pressure. The MD basically said that marketing was too costly, he could employ 2-3 more sales people and get back on track. And so that’s what he did. I get it of course but it was immensely disappointing that I didn’t have any time to really show what could have achieved.

So, back home again and I’m a year behind now. As usual, it seems, I am sitting here, wondering if:
• I am too old to do the job (I’m not but all sorts of doubts seep in)
• I should do something completely different (but I’ve seen some of the career change threads for later in life and they are not positive)
• I should try to start something on my own, I’m a very good copywriter, plus there’s good demand for content marketing and management/strategy so this may be an option.

• I have a couple of other business ideas, one for an automotive product which looks really good IMO but its winter related and we’re coming out of that now so it may be for next year and another automotive related one which again could be really good but payback if unknown.

Today I am writing a ‘copywriter’ CV and am going to apply to all the copywriting jobs I can find and then I am going to visit companies with it printed out. I may also try a content management related one.

So that all sounds like a positive thing I guess but it really is a rollercoaster of emotions for me at the moment and, tbh, I am really embarrassed that I ‘can’t’ get a job. My mates joked that the most recent job should last longer than the last one. It did, just. I really can’t face telling everyone that I am out of a job - again. To date my career has been great but the last few years have been up and down and the last year, totally down. I’ve gone from never thinking about money to worrying about it. We have plenty tbh but when I am not earning I am always less likely to spend money and avoid social occasions because of that. It creates a lot of stress continually. Plus it puts pressure on Mrs U too to cover our costs. Luckily she is a highish earner but I still don’t want her to shoulder all the financial burden.

Last year I applied for countless jobs, spoke to recruitment agents every few days, had interviews that I never heard back from, had interviews I was overqualified for etc. I had thousands of hours to consider every option. I even applied to low paid retail jobs and didn’t get an interview. I’ll stop typing now but any words of support and encouragement would be greatly appreciated.

[elanfan]

What about Spocks offer above?

[DSLiverpool]

Fab32 said:

DSLiverpool said:

Discussed this weekend, order for stock placed, website being built by herself with banner help from our designer as a favour. They have 800 facebook friends and a product under £5 that anyone would want, if 200 friends share the new website and those friends share it to 10 more friends etc etc - it will work for her, its an item she loves using and is already preparing a you tube channel now.

It really depends if you HAVE to be earning full wack right now - if so trying your own path isnt for you, I am 6 months in to my new venture and its not covering the school fees (yet) but it will and very soon ...... but 6 months of not much isnt for everyone.

someone I may know?

Sorry not sure how I missed this months ago ! She isnt famous so unless you know me then no. Product is a Chinese UK hybrid with part coming in from China thn crucially being finished in the UK to try to deter an instant copy being on ebay.

OP I hope you got sorted, decent marketing people that dont want £xxx for 3 / 6 months before delivering very little are thin on the ground.

[crofty1984]

Well you can get a job, you proved it. Hope the next one isn't in a stty company, that's all.

[Steve Campbell]

crofty1984 said:

Well you can get a job, you proved it. Hope the next one isn't in a stty company, that's all.

THIS? In fact, you got 2 in a year. They just didn't work out as expected. Onwards and upwards !

[fido]

Undirection said:

I had 25 direct reports who had not had a manager for many months and had gone a bit ‘feral’. They had a global software launch which was months behind time and when it launched the tech team pissed off on hols and the marketing team had had enough of working on it. This essentially meant I had to bring 25 staff back into line, focus them on their jobs, focus them on launching this new software, get them to do the marketing department’s work, recruit new staff urgently (as there was strong international demand from other countries), train new staff in a product I barely knew myself, the list goes on… After we missed launching in one country the GM blamed me and that was that. It was not my fault but…TBH the staff were great and I had some really nice messages from them but I wasn’t disappointed to be gone tbh.

Not telling you how to do your job - but did you not create team leaders within the 25 to make it more manageable, as well as being able to shift some responsibility/blame for underperformance in whatever areas they were in charge of?

[battered]

Steve Campbell said:

crofty1984 said:

Well you can get a job, you proved it. Hope the next one isn't in a stty company, that's all.

THIS? In fact, you got 2 in a year. They just didn't work out as expected. Onwards and upwards !

+1 from me. You have proved that you can deliver. Take the positives out of that, you sorted out a poor situation and having done this the job was made redundant owing to circumstances beyond your control. You didn't fail, so press on and do it again for someone that will want to keep you on and give you something else to do. As with anything else success is 1& inspiration and 99% perspiration. I got a great writeup from a previous food manufacturing client because I rang up the contract cleaner and got them to clean the Gents to my satisfaction, insisting that a proper clean be done that night and not "sometime next week we will do a deep clean" which was their initial offer. I kid you not. Degrees coming out of my ears, years of relevant experience, and I'm chasing up the bloody bog cleaner. Because nobody else did. The job got done, we moved on. But really? Apparently yes. So bash on, you're getting most of it right most of the time, which is better than most people. Carry on.