Asking for more money than job offer states!

[rash_decision]

As per title really, I am looking for some advice on this please.

I was emailed a couple of weeks ago, and asked if I would be interested in a position that had become vacant. A good few emails sent back and forward with information on the position, but only a 'guesstimate' at the salary.

Fast forward to Tuesday of this week, and due to being overseas, I had a 57 minute telephone interview, with an offer ensuing minutes after the call ended. During the call, the regional director hadn't mentioned the salary, but did say to me that he believed the rough figure mentioned by the recruitment girl was in the ballpark to interest me, fair enough, it was.

I received the official offer via email this morning, and everything is fine with exception to the salary. Comparing it to colleagues doing a similar role, albeit 3/4 years ago, they were on £6-8k more, with less responsibility. The salary is still good, but I feel should be slightly more, and after speaking with my old director, he felt so too, and added that it is fairly normal these days for folk to ask for more money, with some justification. He thought it even made an applicant look more professional.

I'm looking for some opinions from the masses on this, as I am now thinking if it is common place to ask, maybe they have a contingency to go up a little on what would be a normal, everyday request with a job offer. My old boss reckons I should, because once I take the job and discover everyone around me is on more money then I am stuck!

For reference, it is a large, worldwide engineering company, with a cast of thousands, if that would have any bearing on asking for more money. Am I likely to jeopardise the offer, or if they won't up the offer just stick with what is on the table, generally???

Thanks in advance.

Edited by rash_decision on Thursday 20th October 18:43

[vsonix]

Not a nice position to be in really, the recruitment consultant has played you by making you interview for a role he knows you wouldn't have considered otherwise. I find it hard to believe that he would have accepted the brief and started contacting candidates etc. if he didn't know what the salary was being offered!
Are there any other perks to the position that might offset the difference in take home pay - i.e. free gym, food, pension/healthcare package etc? Is it significantly closer to your house or cheaper/easier to travel to? Are you in urgent need of a new position or are you at liberty to pick/choose when you leave the existing one? If you aren't pressed then there is no harm in saying that you are interested in the position but it'd take equal to or more than your existing wage to consider moving - I mean it's only normal not to want to take a pay cut unless it's made up for in other ways.

[rash_decision]

vsonix said:

Not a nice position to be in really, the recruitment consultant has played you by making you interview for a role he knows you wouldn't have considered otherwise. I find it hard to believe that he would have accepted the brief and started contacting candidates etc. if he didn't know what the salary was being offered!
Are there any other perks to the position that might offset the difference in take home pay - i.e. free gym, food, pension/healthcare package etc? Is it significantly closer to your house or cheaper/easier to travel to? Are you in urgent need of a new position or are you at liberty to pick/choose when you leave the existing one? If you aren't pressed then there is no harm in saying that you are interested in the position but it'd take equal to or more than your existing wage to consider moving - I mean it's only normal not to want to take a pay cut unless it's made up for in other ways.

Thanks for the reply. It's not a comparable job to my last by any means. I worked offshore for 4 years and quit earlier this year for some time to myself, sa have been effectively unemployed since March. This role is based on my previous experience as a field engineer, which took me away from home for about 80% of the year, but now in an office based role. The benefits are being at home 95% of the time, and having some long awaited home time. The job is offering £30k less than my last job, but that have heavily loaded due to being in an offshore environment. This job is far handier, far safer in every aspect, and a good career move, with potential to open many doors, moving forward.

Given the job I quit, and also the one before that, money isn't a big driver for me these days. Sure we all work for a salary and not fun, but what I mean by my original question is the job suits, but equally don't want to sell myself short. There is a 15% bonus scheme and decent employer pension contributions, which hang off the salary, so a few grand more wouldn't make a massive difference, but would be nice. I also don't want to appear like a soft touch and that is the way things continue, if it is expected in this day and age to negotiate ????

[rash_decision]

Also, please forgive my typing, I am away from home and using my tablet!!!!

[Flooble]

Unfortunately no-one can give you a guarantee.

I have been on both sides. The most I have ever managed to add to an offer was 17% + two days working from home.

However, it does depend how desperate they are and how flexible HR will be. I've seen a vacancy stay open for years because HR would not pay market rate. But I have also seen a manager find a way to get an extra 10% in order to fill a post. Equally I have seen people price themselves out of a job - they asked for more than I thought was reasonable in that case so I didn't even try to negotiate with the HR/FD/MD.

Unfortunately only you can decide if you'd be happy working for that rate. Without knowing anything about the role, maybe there are other options anyway - equity, bonus, time off ...

[rash_decision]

Also, please forgive my typing, I am away from home and using my tablet!!!!

[battered]

My reply went missing. I've been there, I wrote a "thanks but no thanks" letter and then spent a weekend kicking myself. They then made the better offer so off I went. The thing is that as with other things you have to be prepared o walk away. If you aren't, then you won't get the best deal,. If you are prepared to close the book and walk away, then ask for it and say "sorry, no go" if they refuse. But those are the stakes. For me it paid off and I went to France for 2 years and had a whale of a time. It might just as well not have done.

Establish your bottom line and what you'd ideally like. If they offer between the two, happy days. If not, then be prepared to say no. You only have the upper hand once, and it's right now. Once you are in harness, you are stuck. So get the right deal now, or walk.

[Some Gump]

I've negotiated significant changes from initial offer on the last 2 jobs.
Don't start with "thanks but no thanks". Start with "I really want to work with you, but.."

Solid justifications as to why you want more. "Billy did a similar job and got paid more" won't cut it. This is about YOU and their job, nothing more. The recruiting people have a task to get you for as little as they think you'll securely join for, that's their job. If you have better alternatives, higher costs to consider on switch, impact to private life that needs to outweigh via higher spending, all can be used.

If the offer is a package, think of the total cost for your employer. My last one - I argued my case for salary. They were struggling to agree. I offered "Well, I'm expecting to opt out of the co. car scheme anyway. Upgrade me to whatever band makes the difference in pay, you save the NI side and we're done". They agreed straight away and it was giving them the last word whilst getting exactly what I wanted.
I'm aware of people seeing huge recruiting co. fees and that being a factor. I've heard (but not experienced) doing a deal where you get salary x, but have (in writing) increase to y after probation, or guaranteed 1st year bonus of z (subject to probation). This might again reduce the total cost to them, but the legalities / rules are a grey area to me. I'm not bothered about the ethics tho, because recruiters are in the same class as estate agents and taxi men =)

[Gargamel]

Hi,
I work for a global business as their internal recruiter, I have negotiated hundreds of offers over the last six years.

There is usually no problem in asking, it varies so much, what band, are you at the bottom of the offer range or already over budget, who knows.

Phone the recruiter, tell them the issue, detail your last package, tell them you recognise some of the premium was due to overseas working, but you need to get closer to X figure.

I have never then rejected a candidate for asking for a little more, However I haven't always said yes either....

[rash_decision]

Some Gump said:

I've negotiated significant changes from initial offer on the last 2 jobs.
Don't say, "thanks but no thanks". Start with "I really want to work with you, but.."

Solid justifications as to why you want more. "Billy did a similar job and got paid more" won't cut it. This is about YOU and their job, nothing more. The recruiting people have a task to get you for as little as they think you'll securely join for, that's their job. If you have better alternatives, higher costs to consider on switch, impact to private life that needs to outweigh via higher spending, all can be used.

If the offer is a package, think of the total cost for your employer. My last one - I argued my case for salary. They were struggling to agree. I offered "Well, I'm expecting to opt out of the co. car scheme anyway. Upgrade me to whatever band makes the difference in pay, you save the NI side and we're done". They agreed straight away and it was giving them the last word whilst getting exactly what I wanted.
I'm aware of people seeing huge recruiting co. fees and that being a factor. I've heard (but not experienced) doing a deal where you get salary x, but have (in writing) increase to y after probation, or guaranteed 1st year bonus of z (subject to probation). This might again reduce the total cost to them, but the legalities / rules are a grey area to me. I'm not bothered about the ethics tho, because recruiters are in the same class as estate agents and taxi men =)

Great advice, thanks. I'm not expecting a massive jump, but more in line with what I know the job should pay, from experience and talking to some folk in the same role, in the same industry.

I need to sell myself, and remind them they approached me, so they must have had good reason, as you say, with justification for my asking.

I was going to ask if the salary could be looked at, to start the conversation, and if I hit a brick wall straight away, suggest some sort of reevaluation after my probationary period. Would this be fair enough, rather than going back to them with a figure do you think?

[rash_decision]

Gargamel said:

Hi,
I work for a global business as their internal recruiter, I have negotiated hundreds of offers over the last six years.

There is usually no problem in asking, it varies so much, what band, are you at the bottom of the offer range or already over budget, who knows.

Phone the recruiter, tell them the issue, detail your last package, tell them you recognise some of the premium was due to overseas working, but you need to get closer to X figure.

I have never then rejected a candidate for asking for a little more, However I haven't always said yes either....

Would you say that most employers would expect the salary to be queried in this day and age?

[Richjam]

Just ask for an agreement to increase it to your desired level after 6 months that gives them a chance to see what your worth and you a chance to prove it. It has worked for me quite a few times.

[crazy about cars]

Richjam said:

Just ask for an agreement to increase it to your desired level after 6 months that gives them a chance to see what your worth and you a chance to prove it. It has worked for me quite a few times.

This is what I've got in my current job too. To be fair the increase after 6 months is much as I've negotiated quite aggresively but I guess at least in the employers eyes they have the upper hand in the deal.

[Gargamel]

rash_decision said:

Would you say that most employers would expect the salary to be queried in this day and age?

I think that very few take offensive when the question is asked.

It is a matter of style and doing it the right way. No ultimatum's but logic and let them know that you are very interested.

[fat80b]

rash_decision said:

suggest some sort of reevaluation after my probationary period. Would this be fair enough, rather than going back to them with a figure do you think?

I would want more than a vague promise - If you aren't happy with the salary to start with, it could be very frustrating if later the promises evaporate.

Effectively, you are expecting to work the probationary period for less than you think you are worth, this doesn't sit right with me.

I would look to secure the salary you want at the beginning. Then there is no confusion down the line. It's one of the best value phonecalls you'll ever make....

Bob

[ChasW]

Last couple of jobs I have edged the starting salary up. It helps if you have a good reason. In one instance neither I nor the employer, paying for my relocation, appreciated the house price differences so I used this as an argument although the salary increase was already 30% above the existing job. The next time I had not appreciated the commuting costs and negotiated another 5% to compensate. In both cases, as one poster has wisely recommended, I made it absolutely clear how much I wanted the job but there is just this one obstacle in the way. When I have been hiring I would listen to reasonable arguments.

[Foliage]

Ive been there, ended up turning the role down as they wouldn't even match my current salary, id have been happy to move for that, salary was discussed early on in the process, they said they could match what I was on, in the end they didn't offer that, I rang them, spoke to HR mentioned that it was frustrating and felt it was a waste of a lot of my time.

Its all about money and profits that all that matters if they aren't going to pay you what your worth then fk em, you have to consider your own skills and personal attributes as the product, consider yourself as a business, you have overheads (living expenses, travel etc) and you want to come out with a profit at the end (disposable income to spend on nice things and holidays etc), why put in that effort otherwise.

If the salary is ok, but it just doesn't fit your expectations try brining up other perks, particularly holiday days, company cars etc, but make sure you get it in writing and in your contract.

[ChasW]

Given what Foliage has just posted there is another consideration here. Where I have succeeded in negotiating the salary I wanted as opposed to the one initially offered/advertised I have always dealt with the hiring manager. He or she had the final say. HR just had to act on their instruction. I think in companies where HR are more dominant then you have less of a chance as they will be concerned with pay scales and grading points etc etc and not rocking the boat.

[Foliage]

ChasW said:

Given what Foliage has just posted there is another consideration here. Where I have succeeded in negotiating the salary I wanted as opposed to the one initially offered/advertised I have always dealt with the hiring manager. He or she had the final say. HR just had to act on their instruction. I think in companies where HR are more dominant then you have less of a chance as they will be concerned with pay scales and grading points etc etc and not rocking the boat.

Human Resources in this case was the 'hiring manager' this was a small prestige multinational with a very low staff turn over. But yes, internal politics and the attitude of the person your dealing with has a lot to do with it. Its difficult.

[andy-xr]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You took a pay cut of 4% of what you wanted though? That's not a win in my book but I guess you're happy enough with it

OP - if you explain that there must have been a misunderstanding, or that the recruiter hasnt picked up your expectations and the package you're looking for is X, leave it with them to think about and see what they can do. It might to you not be about moeny, you might think you could take 28 days + bank holidays instead of the 24 they're offering you (for example) or something else other than £ might float your boat.

I think making an offer that's well below what you discussed isnt a good sign that the rest of the relationship will go that well. If you start off with clear and structured discussion, you've always got that to refer back to and base new discussions on