Why is the recruitment process not working?
Discussion
davepoth said:
One will be on to complain in a minute, but I've only met one that did their job properly. All of the others just relied on scraping up as many CVs as they could and then shovelling as many of them as they could at a potential employer in the hope that one of their candidates would get the job - essentially working on the assumption that the interview process is no better than a throw of the dice.
I've dealt with a lot myself, only met two who I felt did the job properly for both the employer and employee. They are my first points of contact now when looking for roles.A bug bear for me is those on LinkedIn who send a connect request. Never spoken to them, don't know who they are, but hey, lets connect. I find it plain rude and usually report them as spam. Double annoyance when they don't even take the time to read your profile to discover for instance that I'm an infrastructure/architecture guy so why would I connect with an RC specialising in Java and WebAPP recruitment?
davepoth said:
Orchid1 said:
Recruitment consultants are the sneakiest slimiest most dishonest people i've ever come across who lie, lie and lie again in order to make shady deals and protect their commission.
I don't know if there already is one but if not there should be an independent body set up to monitor them and deal with complaints.
One will be on to complain in a minute, but I've only met one that did their job properly. All of the others just relied on scraping up as many CVs as they could and then shovelling as many of them as they could at a potential employer in the hope that one of their candidates would get the job - essentially working on the assumption that the interview process is no better than a throw of the dice. I don't know if there already is one but if not there should be an independent body set up to monitor them and deal with complaints.
The right job is the one they are recuiting for, and the best person is "anyone"
Fiddly-Dee said:
Similarly, there are many well-qualified and experienced people who bemoan their inability to land a "decent" job.
Are there?I don't know much about this outside my own sector (software developer) and I suspect the picture varies but I get stacks of emails from recruiters with job descriptions. They tend to ask for 5+ years of experience (not unusual to ask for more experience than some languages have been around
) and offer salaries of £20-40k.I know just a few handfuls of software developers well enough to know their income, all of them are on over (sometimes well over) £80k with that much experience. Many are contract. No idea how satisfied those employers are because I know the local market well enough that I don't tend to go anywhere near recruiters.
98elise said:
A Recruitment Consultants job is to match the best person with the right job.
The right job is the one they are recuiting for, and the best person is "anyone"
Absolutely this. It's just sales. Factor in the fact that most employers don't really know what they want, and still less know what they need or how to ask for it, and you can see how it's just a numbers game. As for then lying, and being successful...er, yeah. A certain set of used car salesmen have been lying for decades, and they were successful, too. Who knew?The right job is the one they are recuiting for, and the best person is "anyone"
I deal with agencies all the time, I'm an interim. I need them for most of my work. Some are good, some just punt the vacancies out there and wait for the calls. One is a lying piece of s**t that I would cheerfully watch drown. I'll use him if I'm desperate for the next contract, otherwise not.
Terminator X said:
Orchid1 said:
Recruitment consultants are the sneakiest slimiest most dishonest people i've ever come across who lie, lie and lie again in order to make shady deals and protect their commission.
I don't know if there already is one but if not there should be an independent body set up to monitor them and deal with complaints.
This, complete I don't know if there already is one but if not there should be an independent body set up to monitor them and deal with complaints.
s.TX.
Foliage said:
Combination of slimy recruitment consultants and clueless untrained 40-50yo female HR/Talent Managers/Recruiters in business's who don't understand the business or the role they are recruiting for.
This, 100%.I got rejected by the company I work for now 3 times.... After having my CV handed directly to someone who actually knew what they were talking about, I got a job within weeks.
HR (human remains) has a lot to answer for IMHO, generally totally clueless & simply scanning for buzzwords & very specific qualifications, of which very few people will have, but industry experience would mean that they are a great fit for the job with a small amount of training....
I had an interview with a non-technical HR bird asking technical questions about complex systems, it was obvious that she had a list of answers that meant absolutely nothing to her, who is that really benefiting?
What also winds me up is no one will state a salary now, it's all the b
ks of "competitive", "dependant on experience" etc, why waste my time making me go through a lengthy application process just to find that your "competitive" salary is actually 7k less than where I'm working now?If you want good people, stop the games, pay the best salary for your sector & train, value & respect your people.
Something that it is useful to remember: In the recruitment process, there is only one person who can say yes. Everyone else is there to say filter you out, move you aside, compare you, file you in the bin, and say no. The fewer people you have between you and the one truly important person, the better chance you have.
There are good recruitment agents, there are good estate agents. And there are a lot of bellends. --- Confuscius
Companies often want to hire the Moon on a stick. But they're not really sure which moon or what kind of stick. A good recruiter will tell them about the market and help them define what they're actually looking for, or decide they're not a good client to have. A bad one will spam them with CVs. A bad one will spam everyone including your current boss with CVs. It's only a matter of time before I receive my own CV. No doubt it will have been edited without my permission to claim I have experience that I do not and to give the impression that I am functionally illiterate. This annoys me.
A firm that takes staff development seriously is likely to be able to retain good staff for longer which in turn justifies the investment in their training. You can then focus on hiring aptitude and attitude rather than skills. Your staff will have a natural development path, have greater loyalty to the firm, your firm will be seen as a good employer making it easier to hire further good staff. And monkeys are as likely to fly out of my arse.
Companies often want to hire the Moon on a stick. But they're not really sure which moon or what kind of stick. A good recruiter will tell them about the market and help them define what they're actually looking for, or decide they're not a good client to have. A bad one will spam them with CVs. A bad one will spam everyone including your current boss with CVs. It's only a matter of time before I receive my own CV. No doubt it will have been edited without my permission to claim I have experience that I do not and to give the impression that I am functionally illiterate. This annoys me.
A firm that takes staff development seriously is likely to be able to retain good staff for longer which in turn justifies the investment in their training. You can then focus on hiring aptitude and attitude rather than skills. Your staff will have a natural development path, have greater loyalty to the firm, your firm will be seen as a good employer making it easier to hire further good staff. And monkeys are as likely to fly out of my arse.
As has been alluded to above the problem lies with the ease with which people can be found & marketed. Too many low level recruiters appear to just trawl the internet (LinkedIn / Facebook / whatever), they have no clue who or what they are looking at, but find a few keywords & assume it fits. It's made worse by people overselling themselves on these sites. The recruiter who can find the real diamonds amongst the mud that is LinkedIn for example adds true value.
The number of emails I get from recruiters who have found my details on LinkedIn but appear not to have read my profile is untrue. They are seem to love asking if I'm interested in jobs several levels below what I am currently doing or as one did asking if I'd be interested in working for a company I'm already working for!!
The number of emails I get from recruiters who have found my details on LinkedIn but appear not to have read my profile is untrue. They are seem to love asking if I'm interested in jobs several levels below what I am currently doing or as one did asking if I'd be interested in working for a company I'm already working for!!
768 said:
Defence and aerospace companies, internet companies like Facebook and Google, broadcast media, "cyber" security.
Interesting, I know loads of 5-10 year experienced developers on £35-50K. Architects only make £55-60 tops. In fact, around here you can sometimes pick up a five year guy for £30K if you happen to hit the market right. I'm guessing you are mostly in London? Do like the speech marks around "cyber" by the way - I approve!Most of you are quite happy to slate the HR people or third party recruiter as they are the face to you. The real problem lies with poor hiring managers. They take the responsibility for hiring, so if the job description is st, blame them. If the requirements are too stringent, again blame them. Why does an HR person want to write an impossible to meet job description to only get flak from the hiring manager and any third party recruiter that there are no successes during the interview process? A good HR person will challenge, facilitate and help them refine it.
t, blame them. If the requirements are too stringent, again blame them. Why does an HR person want to write an impossible to meet job description to only get flak from the hiring manager and any third party recruiter that there are no successes during the interview process? A good HR person will challenge, facilitate and help them refine it. RWD cossie wil said:
Foliage said:
Combination of slimy recruitment consultants and clueless untrained 40-50yo female HR/Talent Managers/Recruiters in business's who don't understand the business or the role they are recruiting for.
This, 100%.I got rejected by the company I work for now 3 times.... After having my CV handed directly to someone who actually knew what they were talking about, I got a job within weeks.
HR (human remains) has a lot to answer for IMHO, generally totally clueless & simply scanning for buzzwords & very specific qualifications, of which very few people will have, but industry experience would mean that they are a great fit for the job with a small amount of training....
I had an interview with a non-technical HR bird asking technical questions about complex systems, it was obvious that she had a list of answers that meant absolutely nothing to her, who is that really benefiting?
What also winds me up is no one will state a salary now, it's all the b
ks of "competitive", "dependant on experience" etc, why waste my time making me go through a lengthy application process just to find that your "competitive" salary is actually 7k less than where I'm working now?If you want good people, stop the games, pay the best salary for your sector & train, value & respect your people.
Buzzwords as well. I actually managed to get hold of a friend who worked somewhere I applied for. I asked him to check over my CV. He came back with a list of buzzwords HR like to see so I could shoehorn them in somehow. Daft.
bad company said:
Foliage said:
Combination of slimy recruitment consultants and clueless untrained 40-50yo female HR/Talent Managers/Recruiters in business's who don't understand the business or the role they are recruiting for.
Just one or two little prejudices there. Recruitment is an important vocation (finding the right person for the right post can have a massive effect on a business, butterfly effect etc) and should require a degree level professional qualification.
bad company said:
98elise said:
A Recruitment Consultants job is to match the best person with the right job.
The right job is the one they are recruiting for, and the best person is "anyone"
Really, how do you know all about a recruiter's job?The right job is the one they are recruiting for, and the best person is "anyone"
I'm a contractor however so there is an element of truth in it
Foliage said:
bad company said:
Foliage said:
Combination of slimy recruitment consultants and clueless untrained 40-50yo female HR/Talent Managers/Recruiters in business's who don't understand the business or the role they are recruiting for.
Just one or two little prejudices there. Recruitment is an important vocation (finding the right person for the right post can have a massive effect on a business, butterfly effect etc) and should require a degree level professional qualification.
Edited by bad company on Tuesday 25th October 14:12
Otispunkmeyer said:
From some of my experiences its like some recruiters/HR people see your CV and then cannot extrapolate. This guy has a masters and a PhD but his job history has only been on automotive IC engines. He can't possibly adapt to work on anything else now.... no sir.
I get a lot of this. It even breaks down to different types of food. "Ah yes I can see that you've worked in meat, dairy, bakery, chilled, ambient, over the course of 25 years, you've worked at 2 different meat pie manufacturers, experience of steak pies, pork pies, chicken and mushroom pies, meat and potato, steak and kidney, beef and ale...hmm. You see the thing is that we make chicken and vegetable pies here. You've not done chicken and vegetable, have you?"
The other favourite is people just invent a reason why they are turning down a candidate, having made a gut feel decision, so you get feedback from the agency that says "oh, yes, erm, he didn't think that your experience of...erm...food microbiology was strong enough". This is fine but when the area where you are reported as being weak is actually by far your strongest suit then you know the feedback is complete b
ks.Otispunkmeyer said:
Buzzwords as well. I actually managed to get hold of a friend who worked somewhere I applied for. I asked him to check over my CV. He came back with a list of buzzwords HR like to see so I could shoehorn them in somehow. Daft.
Daft it may be but that's just learning to play the game.Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff