Why is the recruitment process not working?
Discussion
By 'doctoring" I mean to deliberately mislead with false information eg stating experience or certifications/qualifications that you don't have. Re-wording, re-formatting etc are all largely cosmetic. Individual applicants will also play this game. Indeed, I have had to dismiss a couple of people who have lied about qualifications on their CV.
I once used a recruitment company to find me a Sales Manager, three months in the role I found out that he was a ex-convict who had been in prison for fraud and illegal firearms, was lying to me about all the meetings he was doing and was in fact building a cannabis factory.
He also stole the laptop we gave him by saying it had been stolen.
And his CV was just lies
Must have cost me around £30K with his salary and lost sales
I would never used a recruitment company again.
He also stole the laptop we gave him by saying it had been stolen.
And his CV was just lies
Must have cost me around £30K with his salary and lost sales
I would never used a recruitment company again.
Blue Cat said:
I once used a recruitment company to find me a Sales Manager, three months in the role I found out that he was a ex-convict who had been in prison for fraud and illegal firearms, was lying to me about all the meetings he was doing and was in fact building a cannabis factory.
He also stole the laptop we gave him by saying it had been stolen.
And his CV was just lies
Must have cost me around £30K with his salary and lost sales
I would never used a recruitment company again.
I once bought a car from a garage in Barnet, it was a dog.He also stole the laptop we gave him by saying it had been stolen.
And his CV was just lies
Must have cost me around £30K with his salary and lost sales
I would never used a recruitment company again.
I'm never going to buy a car from any garage again.
bad company said:
I once bought a car from a garage in Barnet, it was a dog.
I'm never going to buy a car from any garage again.
If you buy 10 cars from garages and 8 turn out to be dogs, compared to buying 10 cars privately and only one turns out to be a dog, where would you get future cars from?I'm never going to buy a car from any garage again.
ETA: IIRC you think it's OK for Recruitment Agents to get leads from candidates by asking them where else they were applying "so that they don't put them forward for the same role...".
Edited by Countdown on Wednesday 26th October 14:36
Blue Cat said:
I once used a recruitment company to find me a Sales Manager, three months in the role I found out that he was a ex-convict who had been in prison for fraud and illegal firearms, was lying to me about all the meetings he was doing and was in fact building a cannabis factory.
He also stole the laptop we gave him by saying it had been stolen.
And his CV was just lies
Must have cost me around £30K with his salary and lost sales
I would never used a recruitment company again.
Isn't this the reason you do background checks, have application/declaration forms etc? Without sounding like a broken record this sounds more like the company's fault than the recruiter. You would also need to check up on the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act to see if said candidate had to declare this to you (if asked). If you wanted a a full end to end hiring process including background checks etc then you would likely be paying for some of this up front.He also stole the laptop we gave him by saying it had been stolen.
And his CV was just lies
Must have cost me around £30K with his salary and lost sales
I would never used a recruitment company again.
Blue Cat said:
I once used a recruitment company to find me a Sales Manager, three months in the role I found out that he was a ex-convict who had been in prison for fraud and illegal firearms, was lying to me about all the meetings he was doing and was in fact building a cannabis factory.
He also stole the laptop we gave him by saying it had been stolen.
And his CV was just lies
Must have cost me around £30K with his salary and lost sales
I would never used a recruitment company again.
So you engaged with the agency, agreed to their terms, asked them to provide CV's, got this guys CV from them, read the CV, asked to interview him, interviewed him(probably more than once I would imagine), offered him the job, referenced him, signed contracts with him, provided him with IT equipment and a salary, but its the Recruitment Companies fault He also stole the laptop we gave him by saying it had been stolen.
And his CV was just lies
Must have cost me around £30K with his salary and lost sales
I would never used a recruitment company again.
How do you arrive at that statement?
Also, 3 months of not checking his meetings as Sales Manager? - Speaks volumes about you, but of course, lets blame the Consultant, it was ALL his fault.
Who hired him, the Recruitment Company, or You?
Edited by TIGA84 on Wednesday 26th October 15:24
Countdown said:
If you buy 10 cars from garages and 8 turn out to be dogs, compared to buying 10 cars privately and only one turns out to be a dog, where would you get future cars from?
ETA: IIRC you think it's OK for Recruitment Agents to get leads from candidates by asking them where else they were applying "so that they don't put them forward for the same role...".
1. Blue Cat was talking about one instance, not 10. There are good and bad recruitment agencies as there are good and bad garages. Having said that it sounds at least partly her own fault for not taking up adequate references.ETA: IIRC you think it's OK for Recruitment Agents to get leads from candidates by asking them where else they were applying "so that they don't put them forward for the same role...".
Edited by Countdown on Wednesday 26th October 14:36
2. I ALWAYS got my recruiters to find out where candidates were interviewing, why not? The information received gave us intelligence about what our competitors and potential clients were doing. I really don't understand why this is seen as a problem?
bad company said:
2. I ALWAYS got my recruiters to find out where candidates were interviewing, why not? The information received gave us intelligence about what our competitors and potential clients were doing. I really don't understand why this is seen as a problem?
Because it's not in the best interests of the Candidate. You want to know so that you (the Rec Agency) can put forward OTHER candidates for the same role. You also know that if you were honest and up front with the candidate, and told them the real reason why you wanted to know, they wouldn't tell you, which is why Agencies lie.Lying to the candidate and working against their best interests is one of the reasons why Recruitment Agencies are regarded as scummy.
"Best interests of candidate"
If a recruiter was working as this as their sole mantra then they would not put forward any other candidates for the same role, or they would put forward ill suited fake profiles so the "candidate" was the only viable option.
The reality is that the employer business pays the fee and this is where the commercial contractual arrangement is. If there was a market for a candidate paid for service it would be done. Still, which candidate is going to pay 10-30% of their basic salary within 30 days of starting the job? That would be zero so given the employer fee market exists this market will never take off.
As an employer business, I will also ask candidates where else they are interviewing and at what stage they are at.
If a recruiter was working as this as their sole mantra then they would not put forward any other candidates for the same role, or they would put forward ill suited fake profiles so the "candidate" was the only viable option.
The reality is that the employer business pays the fee and this is where the commercial contractual arrangement is. If there was a market for a candidate paid for service it would be done. Still, which candidate is going to pay 10-30% of their basic salary within 30 days of starting the job? That would be zero
so given the employer fee market exists this market will never take off. As an employer business, I will also ask candidates where else they are interviewing and at what stage they are at.
Countdown said:
Because it's not in the best interests of the Candidate. You want to know so that you (the Rec Agency) can put forward OTHER candidates for the same role. You also know that if you were honest and up front with the candidate, and told them the real reason why you wanted to know, they wouldn't tell you, which is why Agencies lie.
Lying to the candidate and working against their best interests is one of the reasons why Recruitment Agencies are regarded as scummy.
Why do people who have never worked in recruitment claim to know so much about how it all works? That's why so many think it's easy money and become a recruiter or worse still start an agency which is doomed to fail.Lying to the candidate and working against their best interests is one of the reasons why Recruitment Agencies are regarded as scummy.
We asked about other interviews for a number of reasons one of which being that it helps us to know what the candidate is looking for. We also wanted to know which firms were hiring or firing and what our competitors were doing. Yes we sometimes also looked at the same job, so what?
You make it sound like agencies just scatter CV's around scattergun style. Doing so without the consent of the candidate would be illegal under data protection laws. I'm not saying it never happens but reputable recruiters don't work that way.
Feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall here....
Do you ask candidates about where else they're applying without telling them that the reason for doing so is so you can send the recruiting company CVs of your other candidates?
If yes, don't you think that's underhanded/deceitful/scummy?
Do you ask candidates about where else they're applying without telling them that the reason for doing so is so you can send the recruiting company CVs of your other candidates?
If yes, don't you think that's underhanded/deceitful/scummy?
Countdown said:
Feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall here....
Do you ask candidates about where else they're applying without telling them that the reason for doing so is so you can send the recruiting company CVs of your other candidates?
No because that's not the reason. Do you ask candidates about where else they're applying without telling them that the reason for doing so is so you can send the recruiting company CVs of your other candidates?
Clear enough for you?
Countdown said:
Feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall here....
Do you ask candidates about where else they're applying without telling them that the reason for doing so is so you can send the recruiting company CVs of your other candidates?
If yes, don't you think that's underhanded/deceitful/scummy?
Just asked this of my OH......she has been asked if there may be other positions she is applying for which may mean she goes off the market but she has never been asked anything more specific.Do you ask candidates about where else they're applying without telling them that the reason for doing so is so you can send the recruiting company CVs of your other candidates?
If yes, don't you think that's underhanded/deceitful/scummy?
Not sure if it makes any difference but she works in a fairly niche' area so most agencies are fairly market specific and not general agencies.
bad company said:
Countdown said:
Feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall here....
Do you ask candidates about where else they're applying without telling them that the reason for doing so is so you can send the recruiting company CVs of your other candidates?
No because that's not the reason. Do you ask candidates about where else they're applying without telling them that the reason for doing so is so you can send the recruiting company CVs of your other candidates?
Clear enough for you?
Ps agencies DO send CVs for roles that they've found out from other candidates. I've had people ring me from Michael Page telling me that they'd heard I was recruiting from a candidate of theirs (who had applied via Sellick).
Edited by Countdown on Wednesday 26th October 21:48
Countdown said:
Feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall here....
Do you ask candidates about where else they're applying without telling them that the reason for doing so is so you can send the recruiting company CVs of your other candidates?
If yes, don't you think that's underhanded/deceitful/scummy?
Don't bang your head, you're spot on. I know you're in finance like me, probably one of the worst industries for fly by night recruiters.Do you ask candidates about where else they're applying without telling them that the reason for doing so is so you can send the recruiting company CVs of your other candidates?
If yes, don't you think that's underhanded/deceitful/scummy?
Seems strange that when you're approached about a role the agent's first sentence is to remind you that the opportunity is confidential, however, when they're fishing it seems your confidentiality to other recruiters doesn't matter.
Countdown said:
So what does "yes, sometimes we also looked at the same job" mean?
Ps agencies DO send CVs for roles that they've found out from other candidates. I've had people ring me from Michael Page telling me that they'd heard I was recruiting from a candidate of theirs (who had applied via Sellick).
Really. So how many 'people ring you from Michael Page telling you that you were recruiting'? I ask because you clearly dislike the recruitment industry and have a fixed opinion about all agencies and recruiters. I suspect you mean that one recruiter rang you once after speaking with a candidate.Ps agencies DO send CVs for roles that they've found out from other candidates. I've had people ring me from Michael Page telling me that they'd heard I was recruiting from a candidate of theirs (who had applied via Sellick).
Edited by Countdown on Wednesday 26th October 21:48
I think it's me banging my head against the wall.
bad company said:
Really. So how many 'people ring you from Michael Page telling you that you were recruiting'? I ask because you clearly dislike the recruitment industry and have a fixed opinion about all agencies and recruiters. I suspect you mean that one recruiter rang you once after speaking with a candidate.
I think it's me banging my head against the wall.
You’re right, it was just the once. But I have been asked several times by recruiters if I’m applying elsewhere and, if so, where am I applying. So it seems common industry practice, and to me it seems very sneaky/underhand.( I think you know that it is because otherwise you’d tell the candidates WHY you’re asking them). And it’s precisely because of attitudes like that which give the industry a bad name.I think it's me banging my head against the wall.
Sparticate said:
I have found it to be a nightmare personally,
Applied for roles in London and Kent, have managed to get interviews but most of the time I do not even get a reply afterwards to tell me I am unsuccessful.
One employer gave me an interview after seeing my CV which listed the main aspects of my current role, it would have been a job where I start at the bottom and work my way up, this I would prefer as you have a greater understanding of the business, the people and how they work. Went up to London, did the interview, and then was told I was over qualified. It made a change, but was a bit annoying that I went all the way up there when they had seen my skills etc on my CV, to tell me that I was over qualified, felt like it was a wasted day.
Haven't had any luck with agencies, just find them to be a complete waste of time.
The over qualified excuse is the lamest of them all imo. No one is over qualified to do anything.Applied for roles in London and Kent, have managed to get interviews but most of the time I do not even get a reply afterwards to tell me I am unsuccessful.
One employer gave me an interview after seeing my CV which listed the main aspects of my current role, it would have been a job where I start at the bottom and work my way up, this I would prefer as you have a greater understanding of the business, the people and how they work. Went up to London, did the interview, and then was told I was over qualified. It made a change, but was a bit annoying that I went all the way up there when they had seen my skills etc on my CV, to tell me that I was over qualified, felt like it was a wasted day.
Haven't had any luck with agencies, just find them to be a complete waste of time.
If you want something doing properly, you have to do it yourself. 
I have always got the job I want myself, by applying direct. Obviously, I understand that for some sectors, recruitment people and headhunters are the way to go, just they have never worked for me, or given me value. In fact recruitment people wind me up, but as with everything, you will find some who are good and some who are bad.
I have always got the job I want myself, by applying direct. Obviously, I understand that for some sectors, recruitment people and headhunters are the way to go, just they have never worked for me, or given me value. In fact recruitment people wind me up, but as with everything, you will find some who are good and some who are bad.
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