Final written warning

Author
Discussion

Gary11

Original Poster:

7 posts

88 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
Hi I am a longtime piston heads browser in need of some advice

I work for a large manufacturing company where we have to clock in and clock out for work.

I have been leaving my work station 2 minutes before the break times (something 80% of the employees do) at no time did my leaving early affect production.

Manager calls me in for a disciplinary meeting and hands me a letter with a date and time.. At this time I thought I would probably get a verbal warning

At the meeting to which I took a union rep their was HR present, the meeting was arranged for 4pm, manager did not turn up on time 20 minutes late.( I think I should have walked out of meeting after 10 mins of manager not turning up)

Meeting starts and I'm accused of defrauding the company because the 2 minutes early I was leaving I was being paid for and they have proof of me leaving my station early..

To which I replied that I am not the only employee leaving early which went ignored, possibly because accusing manager orders his sandwiches from an employee who has to leave his work station early to collect them in time for break.

I have not been given a reason as to why only I have been picked up on about this as like I said 80% of employees do this and I'm the only one being disciplined

Also because the meeting started 20 minutes late it ran over my work time by 10 minutes which is the reason I was late home because I missed my bus.... (Is this not defrauding me of my time?)

union rep was absolutely useless...

So for these reasons I am thinking of appealing the decision of a final written warning with some advice from you guys

Thank you

Pothole

34,367 posts

281 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
Why is it a final written warning?
What else have you done/not done?
How long does it stay on your record?
Would you not be better off just knuckling down and getting on with the job, going to your breaks on time for a while?

StuTheGrouch

5,714 posts

161 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
Pothole said:
Why is it a final written warning?
What else have you done/not done?
How long does it stay on your record?
Would you not be better off just knuckling down and getting on with the job, going to your breaks on time for a while?
These questions, which were my first thoughts too, the last one especially stands out. Just get on with being a model employee.

Working on the assumption of 2x breaks per day and the standard number of working days per year you can see what this costs the company. The company are paying you for over 17 hours per year when you should be working but you've left for your break early. That's about half of a full-time week. If 80% of the workforce are doing this then I can understand why they might not be very happy!


PoleDriver

28,616 posts

193 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
From your description it sounds like you have had at least one verbal and one written warning previously!
Is this the case?
Were they for the same misdemeanour?

joshleb

1,544 posts

143 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
Why because everyone else does it make it acceptable for you to do it too?

You signed up for the hours and you should do them, they have the upper hand and why wouldn't they enforce it.

Everyone else may do it, but then they have to make an example of somebody, and your lucky number on the dice may have rolled.

Big question as to why this is final warning too.....

TLandCruiser

2,788 posts

197 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
joshleb said:
Why because everyone else does it make it acceptable for you to do it too?

You signed up for the hours and you should do them, they have the upper hand and why wouldn't they enforce it.

Everyone else may do it, but then they have to make an example of somebody, and your lucky number on the dice may have rolled.

Big question as to why this is final warning too.....
I agree with what you have said, but surely they can't punish him and no one else? Call it unfair, discrimination or victimisation????

Not sure how they have to be labelled in a legal employment situation, genuine question.

Kermit power

28,634 posts

212 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
TLandCruiser said:
joshleb said:
Why because everyone else does it make it acceptable for you to do it too?

You signed up for the hours and you should do them, they have the upper hand and why wouldn't they enforce it.

Everyone else may do it, but then they have to make an example of somebody, and your lucky number on the dice may have rolled.

Big question as to why this is final warning too.....
I agree with what you have said, but surely they can't punish him and no one else? Call it unfair, discrimination or victimisation????

Not sure how they have to be labelled in a legal employment situation, genuine question.
For all we know, he's using those two minutes to go and take a dump on the MD's desk. That's the problem with only getting one side of the story.

There aren't many large companies these days which are completely clueless when it comes to the application of employment law, so I'd imagine there has to be more than we're being told?

Black can man

31,816 posts

167 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
Think i'd just man up & accept it, keep my head down & make sure i went on break at the break time, as you say it's only 2 minutes.


To me it looks like they are trying to get a reaction out of you so they can get rid if they want to without a messy appeal with HR & getting the union on their backs.


Works work man , not many of us are overjoyed with it but we have to do it & have to accept some of the bks that goes with it at times.



shep1001

4,599 posts

188 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all

Having looked at our disciplinary procedure recently there are several stages you would have to go through, which when followed correctly takes some quite considerable time, involving both the employee/Management/HR before it reaches the 'final' written warning stage (excluding gross misconduct) which would suggest you have other markers on your record either related to time keeping/attendance or other disciplinary issues..

Whilst it seems a little draconian you know your working times so you should work them, what others do is their affair. I have sacked somebody for gross misconduct, not for poor time keeping but they were falsifying their time sheet by 2-3 hours a day each week when nobody else was in the office over 12-18 months. It's not quite on the same level but you are 'defrauding' the company of time and they can prove it from your time card stamps. Our employee got caught out because their electronic swipe card did not match the times they said they were working in the building and their work output was lower than a work colleague who worked 1/3 less time than they did.

If you worked for me, before it even got anywhere near a formal disciplinary, verbal or otherwise I would have had a word in your ear if you were taking the piss or probably said nothing if your time generally balanced out & you were a good worker. It appears you have not given us the full picture here.

klmhcp

247 posts

91 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
Why not just accept it and stop clocking off early in future? Trying to make something out of missing your bus and the manager being late for the meeting is a childish diversion tactic and won't help your cause.

Sheetmaself

5,663 posts

197 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
Sorry but i agree with the najority on here as well. Take all the other workers out of the equation for a moment, you are defrauding the company. Now it may be as simple as they cant afford to release all staff for this so picked up on the least productive,the least beautiful,the chap who's name was drawn from a hat tombola style.

Im only a small business owner so arent clued up on employment laws for corporations but surely there must be the provision to make an example of an employee (maybe not all the wy through to firing them) in order to jolt the workforce as a whole if they are all breaking their terms and conditions.

Again as others have said start working your time, if your finished early and cant do anything in the 2 minutes at your station can you help others? Can you tidy up? Could you make the people you work with a cup of tea?

johnwilliams77

8,308 posts

102 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
Bus wker

MarshPhantom

9,658 posts

136 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
Doesn't a written warning stay valid for a set amount of time?

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
More to this than meets the eye.

If you are a good worker in other respects doing something slightly naughty that everyone else does, why they target you?

IMO They are using it as a stick to beat you with for something else you probably know about.

You'd also have to be an utter, utter helmet to make a complaint about being told off making you get home late.

smifffymoto

4,527 posts

204 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
I'm sure you are allowed a certain ammount of time for hand washing etc before clocking off by law.

PorkInsider

5,877 posts

140 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
smifffymoto said:
I'm sure you are allowed a certain ammount of time for hand washing etc before clocking off by law.
You're not.

SpeckledJim

31,608 posts

252 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
Sounds like they are managing you out, and from the shirty, haughty, affronted, I-know-my-rights way the OP is written, I can possibly imagine why.

shed full o rust

15 posts

127 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
You have my sincere sympathy Gary.
In my experience about 50% of management are complete a holes, and I suspect they were just making an example of you.
As we've effectively had variations on tory government since the 3rd of May 1979, you effectively have no employee rites. Those few that you theoretically have, you need to take to court to enforce yourself, and recently(ish) the tories made that massively harder than it used to be and pretended that it was an 'Austerity Measure'.
Because streamlining and therefore increasing the number of wrongful dismissals is going make the British economy all better, presumably.

bitchstewie

50,782 posts

209 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
I guess the issue with appealing is if their claims are actually correct, on what ground is the appeal?

I'm lucky, I work in an environment that doesn't clock watch and I accept that in some environments it's literally a production line environment where "so long as the job gets done" doesn't work, but I do wonder whether employers factor in the goodwill it costs when they turn their workforce into a bunch of bitter bds who have no intention of going the extra mile.

PoleDriver

28,616 posts

193 months

Sunday 20th November 2016
quotequote all
Gary11 said:
Hi I am a longtime piston heads browser in need of some advice

I work for a large manufacturing company where we have to clock in and clock out for work.

I have been leaving my work station 2 minutes before the break times (something 80% of the employees do) at no time did my leaving early affect production.

Manager calls me in for a disciplinary meeting and hands me a letter with a date and time.. At this time I thought I would probably get a verbal warning

At the meeting to which I took a union rep their was HR present, the meeting was arranged for 4pm, manager did not turn up on time 20 minutes late.( I think I should have walked out of meeting after 10 mins of manager not turning up)

Meeting starts and I'm accused of defrauding the company because the 2 minutes early I was leaving I was being paid for and they have proof of me leaving my station early..

To which I replied that I am not the only employee leaving early which went ignored, possibly because accusing manager orders his sandwiches from an employee who has to leave his work station early to collect them in time for break.

I have not been given a reason as to why only I have been picked up on about this as like I said 80% of employees do this and I'm the only one being disciplined

Also because the meeting started 20 minutes late it ran over my work time by 10 minutes which is the reason I was late home because I missed my bus.... (Is this not defrauding me of my time?)

union rep was absolutely useless...

So for these reasons I am thinking of appealing the decision of a final written warning with some advice from you guys

Thank you
Quoted for future reference.