Have you been involved in a employees termination

Have you been involved in a employees termination

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dieseluser07

Original Poster:

2,452 posts

115 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
quotequote all
We have a trainee at the moment who is just not commited at all to the job, comes in late everyday, plays on her phone all day and winges about her homelife all the time, has no motivation and generally needs a kick up the backside.

My manager has asked if i would send an email discussing this as she needs evidence to let her go (she has taken the piss with a lot and my manager wants her gone)

The only thing is i feel uneasy about providing this evidence as she has a kid to support, but at the same time i can not stand working with her.

How would you feel about this situation.

ruggedscotty

5,606 posts

208 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
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get rid, there are more deserving people out there that would do a good job. Why put up with it. its not your issue, reread your post and think about it. I know id have no qualms....

Disastrous

10,072 posts

216 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
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It seems a bit underhanded to me, the manager colluding with you to manufacture a dismissal.

1. Why do they need to? Assuming a trainee who has barely started, can she not just be dropped?

2. It seems a bit weak to want her gone but to feel guilty about involving yourself and wanting the manager to do it without involving you. If you want her gone, do it. If you don't, tell her straight that the company is looking for a reason to let her go so she's better shape up or you'll help the manager.

NNH

1,515 posts

131 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
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This is the hardest part of being a manager, and there's nothing wrong with feeling bad about the situation. I've been fortunate that I've only had to terminate a very few people in my career, and each time I have to remind myself that it's not fair on other staff if I allow a poor performer to stay.

Your manager is putting a lot of trust in you by involving you in this process. It's up to you and your conscience, but if you agree that this trainee is damaging the team through poor attitude and performance, I'd advise you to write up the evidence dispassionately and clearly.

Countdown

39,688 posts

195 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
quotequote all
dieseluser07 said:
We have a trainee at the moment who is just not commited at all to the job, comes in late everyday, plays on her phone all day and winges about her homelife all the time, has no motivation and generally needs a kick up the backside.

My manager has asked if i would send an email discussing this as she needs evidence to let her go (she has taken the piss with a lot and my manager wants her gone)

The only thing is i feel uneasy about providing this evidence as she has a kid to support, but at the same time i can not stand working with her.

How would you feel about this situation.
"Needs evidence"....if the manager thinks she's crap he should HAVE the evidence and not need an email from you.

The Manager needs to sit down with her, tell her what she's doing wrong, tell her what she should be doing, and agree targets/timescales.

alfie2244

11,292 posts

187 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
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Doesn't sound like the "trainee" is being trained very well to me.

Does she actually need anything other than "services no longer required"?

ATG

20,480 posts

271 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
quotequote all
Countdown said:
The Manager needs to sit down with her, tell her what she's doing wrong, tell her what she should be doing, and agree targets/timescales.
This ^^^

People deserve to be given honest feedback and the chance to improve. Sod legal obligations, arse-covering and avoiding awkward conversations; it's simply the right thing to do.

rog007

5,748 posts

223 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
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I agree with the later comments.

When an employee is reported to me as failing, I've traditionally looked to their line manager to find out why, as they should not have let it get to that point if they were doing their job well. With that philosophy shared with my senior team, I would see very little of this as the line managers knew they had to be effective leaders, and that means supporting and developing those in need. If however that has failed, then move swiftly and fairly to dismiss the employee, but in such a way that they leave with as much support and confidence as possible to allow them to hopefully find the right role for themselves in the future.

dieseluser07

Original Poster:

2,452 posts

115 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
quotequote all
Countdown said:
dieseluser07 said:
We have a trainee at the moment who is just not commited at all to the job, comes in late everyday, plays on her phone all day and winges about her homelife all the time, has no motivation and generally needs a kick up the backside.

My manager has asked if i would send an email discussing this as she needs evidence to let her go (she has taken the piss with a lot and my manager wants her gone)

The only thing is i feel uneasy about providing this evidence as she has a kid to support, but at the same time i can not stand working with her.

How would you feel about this situation.
"Needs evidence"....if the manager thinks she's crap he should HAVE the evidence and not need an email from you.

The Manager needs to sit down with her, tell her what she's doing wrong, tell her what she should be doing, and agree targets/timescales.
The evidence can only come from employees as we never directly work with our manager.

My manager has told me that she raised the issue of her lateness etc at her appraisal and she just was not interested.

The member of staff has no interest in learning - if someone appears interested i give them the time of day, but she is not interested, constantly plays on her phone and winges about her home life. She also cant get into work on time at all arriving 30 minutes late on average meaning we end up setting everything up alone.

phil-sti

2,668 posts

178 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
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Why does your manager need evidence from you, she just needs to do a review and dismiss her. I've had to do it with loads of people but it isn't fair expecting your staff to put it in writing to you.

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
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phil-sti said:
Why does your manager need evidence from you, she just needs to do a review and dismiss her. I've had to do it with loads of people but it isn't fair expecting your staff to put it in writing to you.
From the sound of it the OP's manager isn't in their office day to day.

Keep it entirely factual - lateness, verifiable work related fk-ups and so forth, and leave anything personality related or subjective out of it. She'll have a right to see her HR file if she wants to kick up a fuss so you don't want to end up in an even more difficult situation.

If you get on well with your boss, suggest that a replacement trainee might do better with more direct supervision - by you, for example. wink

oldcynic

2,166 posts

160 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
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I'd feel awful, but I've been there and given honest feedback. Stick to the facts and don't let someone's attitude bring down everyone else's work.

Ms R.Saucy

284 posts

89 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
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phil-sti said:
Why does your manager need evidence from you, she just needs to do a review and dismiss her. I've had to do it with loads of people but it isn't fair expecting your staff to put it in writing to you.
as the OP explains the Manager doesn;t actually work on the 'shop floor'

so emails documenting that that the trainee is late again etc goes to build a case , remember that even though there isn;t a need to have a reason to let someone go who doesn;t have sufficient service , good practice suggests following the except processes as you would with anyone else, then the trainee can;t throw a curve ball by claiming a Protected Charateristic under the Equality act ( and remember this includes sexuality and gender identity as well as disability stuff and race ) and that the decision to dismiss is motivated by colleagues or managers discriminatory view of her..

Ms R.Saucy

284 posts

89 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
quotequote all
davepoth said:
From the sound of it the OP's manager isn't in their office day to day.

Keep it entirely factual - lateness, verifiable work related fk-ups and so forth, and leave anything personality related or subjective out of it. She'll have a right to see her HR file if she wants to kick up a fuss so you don't want to end up in an even more difficult situation.

If you get on well with your boss, suggest that a replacement trainee might do better with more direct supervision - by you, for example. wink
sounds fair enough .

AussieFozzy

136 posts

127 months

Thursday 5th January 2017
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Just do it. We had a girl exactly like this working in our office a few years back. Senior management overlooked her total incompetence because for some reason they all felt sorry for her and got some sort of fatherly attachment.

After many complaints we lost two of our most senior and experienced technicians.

She then left on maternity leave after working the absolute minimum amount of time required to be eligible.
The entire leave period she told us she would be coming back to work so we got no replacement.
The time came for her to officially inform us of her intention to work and then she tells us she is pregnant again so wont be returning, and later admitted the pregnancy was planned.

Edit: I will also add here that if she returned i would have been leaving. I actually had my letter of resignation typed and printed ready to go.

Senior management now think that since we went so long without someone in her role they wont be employing anyone else. So now the team has a bigger workload and we have lost valuable experienced techs just because one person could not be arsed and took the piss as far as possible. And the damage has probably not finished as the team is still unhappy with the situation causing many to be looking for somewhere else.

In short. It is not worth it to possibly damage the rest of your workplace.

Edited by AussieFozzy on Thursday 5th January 01:36

hairyben

8,516 posts

182 months

Thursday 5th January 2017
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What's ops position relative to the other two?

Like others say it's an odd request and I'd be worried about being stabbed in the back with it. Ie if manager doesn't have authority alone making out it was OP who drove the thing through.

wibblebrain

656 posts

139 months

Thursday 5th January 2017
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hairyben said:
What's ops position relative to the other two?

Like others say it's an odd request and I'd be worried about being stabbed in the back with it. Ie if manager doesn't have authority alone making out it was OP who drove the thing through.
Nonsense, it is perfectly reasonable for the manager to ask for the specific evidence from someone who works directly with the employee concerned. However I think the manager should be meeting the OP face to face to discuss this rather than trying to conduct the process using email.

Email is not the communication method to use for a discussion, it should be restricted to document and confirm the face to face meeting.

xjay1337

15,966 posts

117 months

Thursday 5th January 2017
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DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
This.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Thursday 5th January 2017
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dieseluser07 said:
The only thing is i feel uneasy about providing this evidence as she has a kid to support
That's her problem, and should motivate her to do the job properly, not justify piss-taking.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 5th January 2017
quotequote all
phil-sti said:
Why does your manager need evidence from you
"We've got to get rid because other members of my team are complaining about her"

Arse-covering and not wanting to take responsibility for the decision to fire someone. When you work for people like that, and you refuse to get involved, it'll be a colleague of yours being asked to gather evidence on you next...