Redundancy warning.
Discussion
Hi all,
As of wednesday last week myself and my 3 colleuges were put on consultation, 1 person is to go from our service desk.
I am still waiting for my one on one meeting but as I suspect it will be between me and one other guy (since I don't see eye to eye with the director who is carrying out the process) I want to know what I am entitled to before I go in.
I joined the company in March 2011 initially on contract and was made staff in May 2011. For the purposes of the redundancy process I assume this means I worked for the company for 5 complete years. Based on the government redundancy pay calculator I understand the minimum I am legally entitled to is approx £2400 but then there is the issue of notice period. Am I correct in assuming that I am entitled to a notice period that is paid in leiu if they don't want me to return to work my notice?
I need to re-read my contract to find out what my notice period is but I have a feeling it is 1 week for every year I have worked there.
I don't want to come off as sounding like an "I know my rights" type or entitled but the director has showed no interest in business development of the service desk for years and all this is not surprising. If I don't get made redundant then I doubt the company will last to the end of the year anyway.
As of wednesday last week myself and my 3 colleuges were put on consultation, 1 person is to go from our service desk.
I am still waiting for my one on one meeting but as I suspect it will be between me and one other guy (since I don't see eye to eye with the director who is carrying out the process) I want to know what I am entitled to before I go in.
I joined the company in March 2011 initially on contract and was made staff in May 2011. For the purposes of the redundancy process I assume this means I worked for the company for 5 complete years. Based on the government redundancy pay calculator I understand the minimum I am legally entitled to is approx £2400 but then there is the issue of notice period. Am I correct in assuming that I am entitled to a notice period that is paid in leiu if they don't want me to return to work my notice?
I need to re-read my contract to find out what my notice period is but I have a feeling it is 1 week for every year I have worked there.
I don't want to come off as sounding like an "I know my rights" type or entitled but the director has showed no interest in business development of the service desk for years and all this is not surprising. If I don't get made redundant then I doubt the company will last to the end of the year anyway.
You're entitled to your notice pay whether they ask you to work it or not. If your period on a contract was sill on PAYE then it should count towards your continuous service. If you were invoicing them from a self-employed perspective then I'm not sure - someone with more knowledge than me will have to clarify that bit.
Edited by MitchT on Wednesday 25th January 11:20
How big is the company? And how many are going in total (not just your dept)? This will effect how much of a consultation period the company should enter into.
If you do get asked to leave without working your notice, you are entitled to all benefits you would have received during that notice period - Pension contributions, Private Health Care, Holidays.
This is your basic rights on the Gov Website - https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/overview But your company may choose to be nice and offer you a package that's better.
Hopefully you get a nice cheque and manage to walk straight into another job, or they keep you, if that's what you want.
If you do get asked to leave without working your notice, you are entitled to all benefits you would have received during that notice period - Pension contributions, Private Health Care, Holidays.
This is your basic rights on the Gov Website - https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/overview But your company may choose to be nice and offer you a package that's better.
Hopefully you get a nice cheque and manage to walk straight into another job, or they keep you, if that's what you want.
Rather than go in there with the "this is what I am entitled to", wait and see what they say.
Not least because this is supposed to be the first meeting and accordingly, theoretically at least, you are not being informed you are selected yet. You are entering the "consultation period"..... Again, theoretically.
Not least because this is supposed to be the first meeting and accordingly, theoretically at least, you are not being informed you are selected yet. You are entering the "consultation period"..... Again, theoretically.
hast2 said:
If you do get asked to leave without working your notice, you are entitled to all benefits you would have received during that notice period - Pension contributions, Private Health Care, Holidays.
Obviously the redundancy payment is tax free (up to £30k which you're unlikely to break by the sounds of it) but payment in lieu of notice / holiday and other benefits is all taxed at your normal rate.Thanks Everyone. Much clearer now.
The company only has 7 staff in the main office and another 4 out resourced long term on clients. Only 1 position will go and it is one of the 4 in the main office on the service desk, that is all we know so far. Thinking about the skillsets of my fellow workers I am 50/50 convinced it will be me or 1 other guy that is shown the door.
The whole "what I am entitled to" isn't for the first meeting, it is for the last meeting, given the lack of jobs up here (Aberdeen) the payout would need to tide me over for a while, I have a mortgage to pay and a wife to feed!
Thanks again
The company only has 7 staff in the main office and another 4 out resourced long term on clients. Only 1 position will go and it is one of the 4 in the main office on the service desk, that is all we know so far. Thinking about the skillsets of my fellow workers I am 50/50 convinced it will be me or 1 other guy that is shown the door.
The whole "what I am entitled to" isn't for the first meeting, it is for the last meeting, given the lack of jobs up here (Aberdeen) the payout would need to tide me over for a while, I have a mortgage to pay and a wife to feed!
Thanks again
Ransoman said:
Thanks Everyone. Much clearer now.
The company only has 7 staff in the main office and another 4 out resourced long term on clients. Only 1 position will go and it is one of the 4 in the main office on the service desk, that is all we know so far. Thinking about the skillsets of my fellow workers I am 50/50 convinced it will be me or 1 other guy that is shown the door.
The whole "what I am entitled to" isn't for the first meeting, it is for the last meeting, given the lack of jobs up here (Aberdeen) the payout would need to tide me over for a while, I have a mortgage to pay and a wife to feed!
Thanks again
Whilst you feel that it will likely be you it might not. Maybe one guy is paid significantly more and he might be the target due to the cost savings it would make. You dont get on but maybe you have some more skills, better customer manner or connections. You don't necessarily know what they are thinking.The company only has 7 staff in the main office and another 4 out resourced long term on clients. Only 1 position will go and it is one of the 4 in the main office on the service desk, that is all we know so far. Thinking about the skillsets of my fellow workers I am 50/50 convinced it will be me or 1 other guy that is shown the door.
The whole "what I am entitled to" isn't for the first meeting, it is for the last meeting, given the lack of jobs up here (Aberdeen) the payout would need to tide me over for a while, I have a mortgage to pay and a wife to feed!
Thanks again
Brush up your CV and start applying anyway!
But equally, you're still being paid and the longer it goes on, the closer to May you get. It's not really in your interest to progress this, though I do see the argument for wanting to get things cleared up so you know one way or another. Now is a good time for patience.
I'd drag it out as much as possible personally. I'd even consider how sore my back is and maybe think about going to see the doctor about it depending on how the first level of discussions go. While I was stretching and generally giving my back the support it needs, I'd be polishing up my CV and starting to network a little.
Redundancy in a smaller business is often a rough negotiation and many companies can get it horribly wrong. If your company is trying to turn on a sixpence really quickly, they may not have taken all the advice they should. It'd be down to you to know roughly what you should be walking out the door with as a minimum, because that's what they'll be looking at. But more importantly you should also be looking at what upside there is. I've been made redundant quite a few times in companies I've worked with for a couple of years. I've generally come away with
- Holiday Pay
- Months notice
- 3 months redundancy payment
- a reference
- a recommendation
I think in your shoes I'd be hoping I'd clear enough that if it came to is, I could sit at home for 6 months. Whether you do that is of course up to you. I wish in one of my redundancies I'd taken a job I declined, I thought I could do better, and 'better' didnt come along as quick as I thought it would. But, everything happens for a reason and all that.
I'd drag it out as much as possible personally. I'd even consider how sore my back is and maybe think about going to see the doctor about it depending on how the first level of discussions go. While I was stretching and generally giving my back the support it needs, I'd be polishing up my CV and starting to network a little.
Redundancy in a smaller business is often a rough negotiation and many companies can get it horribly wrong. If your company is trying to turn on a sixpence really quickly, they may not have taken all the advice they should. It'd be down to you to know roughly what you should be walking out the door with as a minimum, because that's what they'll be looking at. But more importantly you should also be looking at what upside there is. I've been made redundant quite a few times in companies I've worked with for a couple of years. I've generally come away with
- Holiday Pay
- Months notice
- 3 months redundancy payment
- a reference
- a recommendation
I think in your shoes I'd be hoping I'd clear enough that if it came to is, I could sit at home for 6 months. Whether you do that is of course up to you. I wish in one of my redundancies I'd taken a job I declined, I thought I could do better, and 'better' didnt come along as quick as I thought it would. But, everything happens for a reason and all that.
Thanks everyone for your input, especially andy-XR, very helpfull stuff there.
Well, the boss has finally re-appeared and announced that the decision will be made by the end of the week. He also mentioned that the criteria he is using is "The skills the buisiness will need going forward". Which worries me as he has demonstraited on numerous occasions that he hasn't got a clue as to what my skills are.
Edited to add. Should there be a minimum legal constultancy period and should this be factored in as well?
Well, the boss has finally re-appeared and announced that the decision will be made by the end of the week. He also mentioned that the criteria he is using is "The skills the buisiness will need going forward". Which worries me as he has demonstraited on numerous occasions that he hasn't got a clue as to what my skills are.
Edited to add. Should there be a minimum legal constultancy period and should this be factored in as well?
Ransoman said:
Which worries me as he has demonstraited on numerous occasions that he hasn't got a clue as to what my skills are.
Well a bit of prepping on your part would help here. Document what those skills are and how you have demonstrated them, and take this in with you for the meeting (or just send them to him first). May not make a difference, but if you want to keep your job there's no harm pulling out all the stops.Ransoman said:
Thanks everyone for your input, especially andy-XR, very helpfull stuff there.
Well, the boss has finally re-appeared and announced that the decision will be made by the end of the week. He also mentioned that the criteria he is using is "The skills the buisiness will need going forward". Which worries me as he has demonstraited on numerous occasions that he hasn't got a clue as to what my skills are.
Edited to add. Should there be a minimum legal constultancy period and should this be factored in as well?
When I've been through it (last time a couple of years ago) it was for a larger group of people, but the period of consultation basically had to be : Until both sides feel the the consultation is complete (or something like that).Well, the boss has finally re-appeared and announced that the decision will be made by the end of the week. He also mentioned that the criteria he is using is "The skills the buisiness will need going forward". Which worries me as he has demonstraited on numerous occasions that he hasn't got a clue as to what my skills are.
Edited to add. Should there be a minimum legal constultancy period and should this be factored in as well?
The reality is though that the company says "X" - you say, I don't agree - it should be "Y" - and they say, "tough s**t, it's X".
In my experience, consultation basically means : The period the company tells you what's going to happen, and you listen and ask questions. There is very little "consultation" in most cases it seems.
davek_964 said:
When I've been through it (last time a couple of years ago) it was for a larger group of people, but the period of consultation basically had to be : Until both sides feel the the consultation is complete (or something like that).
The reality is though that the company says "X" - you say, I don't agree - it should be "Y" - and they say, "tough s**t, it's X".
In my experience, consultation basically means : The period the company tells you what's going to happen, and you listen and ask questions. There is very little "consultation" in most cases it seems.
That's just the way it is. A business has to be able to make decisions. The reality is though that the company says "X" - you say, I don't agree - it should be "Y" - and they say, "tough s**t, it's X".
In my experience, consultation basically means : The period the company tells you what's going to happen, and you listen and ask questions. There is very little "consultation" in most cases it seems.
If you look at the regulations and all the advisory websites out there to find out what 'consultation' in this context means, it does not mean that the company must act on things an employee says.
The whole construct of the process is skewed as businesses do not make these decisions lightly. They will have considered a lot of options. It is rare but not impossible for an employee to throw up a scenario to avoid redundancies that has not been thought of, even more rare that they have the data and business case to back it up.
It is more often difficult for an employee to think in the same way a business does in these situations as they are too emotionally invested. If you do want to make a change you first need to understand fully the rationale and business case for making such a change.
Redundancy is awful.
At least you had a few years behind you
I was made redundant, totally out of the blue, on the 6th feb.
My self and my colleague had been there less than 2 years (8 months in my case, 5 in his). Our probation is 6 months.
I at least get 1 months pay. He gets a week bless him. We were not technically made redundant rather our contracts terminated.
Isnt your back really sore? And you need at least a month off?
At least you had a few years behind you
I was made redundant, totally out of the blue, on the 6th feb.
My self and my colleague had been there less than 2 years (8 months in my case, 5 in his). Our probation is 6 months.
I at least get 1 months pay. He gets a week bless him. We were not technically made redundant rather our contracts terminated.
Isnt your back really sore? And you need at least a month off?
Thanks again everyone for your help and advice.
Bit of an update and some closure now.
As expected, I was made redundant, apparently My salary was a good bit higher than the colleague I was most closely matched to (as I had 4 times as much experience as he had). The director had also miscalculated my entitlement but as I had done the calculations before hand I was able to keep him right with no objections. I didn't make any effort to keep the job as I had felt my time with the company had come to a natural end anyway. I had gotton everything I could out of the role and I felt staying there would be a dead end. The director had shown such little interest in the staff and the company that I had no desire to stay.
This was at the end of the February and as expected the director didn't show up to the office for most of the week untill decision day so we couldn't ask any questions.
Pleased to report though that as of next wednesday I start a new, more senior job at a non oil-industry dependant company.
Bit of an update and some closure now.
As expected, I was made redundant, apparently My salary was a good bit higher than the colleague I was most closely matched to (as I had 4 times as much experience as he had). The director had also miscalculated my entitlement but as I had done the calculations before hand I was able to keep him right with no objections. I didn't make any effort to keep the job as I had felt my time with the company had come to a natural end anyway. I had gotton everything I could out of the role and I felt staying there would be a dead end. The director had shown such little interest in the staff and the company that I had no desire to stay.
This was at the end of the February and as expected the director didn't show up to the office for most of the week untill decision day so we couldn't ask any questions.
Pleased to report though that as of next wednesday I start a new, more senior job at a non oil-industry dependant company.
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