Travel Expenses - what is "reasonable"
Discussion
I've only ever had to stay away for work in other countries and work organise accommodation. Been a while but my old director used to say he expected you to have a couple of drinks in the evening after dinner.
One colleague I was away with ordered the hotel porn for every night of a two week stay!!
I paid for a 100 euro taxi ride home at six in the morning out of petty cash as I probably couldn't have justified that. We would be given 100 euros cash for each week we stayed as well as company cc for bigger charges.
One colleague I was away with ordered the hotel porn for every night of a two week stay!!
I paid for a 100 euro taxi ride home at six in the morning out of petty cash as I probably couldn't have justified that. We would be given 100 euros cash for each week we stayed as well as company cc for bigger charges.
Edited by dmitsi on Tuesday 14th February 21:08
4x4Tyke said:
Two hundred quid a night is about the going rate in central London. If they are going to quibble over market rates then find yourself a better exployer.
It's not though is it. I work to a pretty strict limit for over-night stays in London and don't have any trouble finding somewhere perfectly decent to stay for much less than that. Not places with Gyms though. If I wanted to stay somewhere more expensive whether it was reasonable would depend on what else was available, why I wanted to stay there and whether that was the cheapest way of achieving that. I would think it is reasonable, given that you won't be paid for your time in the evening that some consideration is given to what you would normally be doing in that time or your ability to do something other than sit in a hotel room watching TV.
For example, I argued that I should be allowed to drive to a 4 day training thing rather than get the train, even though the policy was I had to get the train, because I could off-set some of the extra cost by staying in a cheaper hotel that wasn't city-central, but also on the grounds that it would allow me to take a bike and go for a pedal in the evenings. The cost difference was small and I had a reasonable reason to spend the extra.
For the OP, it might not be reasonable if you can stay in a cheaper hotel and use a day-pass at a gym. It may or may not be reasonable for the employer to pay for the gym pass in those circumstances. That may be a taxable expense, though that wouldn't affect whether it was reasonable. You just have to be pragmatic and take a wide view of what you want from the more expensive hotel and whether there's a cheaper way of achieving that. If there isn't, then it's more likely to be reasonable, but it's very subjective as to the lengths an employer should go to to replace the lost personal time, so whether an arrangement is reasonable will depend on the individual circumstances.
DaveH23 said:
Olivera said:
DaveH23 said:
Our policy is £200 per night inside the M25, Reading & Aberdeen, Everywhere else is £90.
£90 per night is a piss-poor allowance for the elsewhere category. I would be telling them to sod off with that travel.£200 in London is issue.
I've always taken a view that the test of reasonableness is "what would you do if it were your money?".
If you would normally spend your own money on a 5 star hotel then a 5 star is reasonable, if you wouldn't normally book anything more than a 3 star then a 5 star isn't reasonable. Very simplistic & loads of times that doesn't apply, but it's always a question I'd ask of myself or others.
If you would normally spend your own money on a 5 star hotel then a 5 star is reasonable, if you wouldn't normally book anything more than a 3 star then a 5 star isn't reasonable. Very simplistic & loads of times that doesn't apply, but it's always a question I'd ask of myself or others.
xjay1337 said:
Yipper said:
Know someone who went to a Thai brothel and tried to put the ~£20 through as a "haircut" because he'd been on the road for a month and most of the receipt was not in English. Got caught when a random internal audit of foreign expenses demanded a translation, followed by a quick Google for the company name 
hahah what.......allegedly
Edited by XJSJohn on Wednesday 15th February 08:26
I spent 3 months last year working in central London. The Premier Inn on Fleet Street was £195 per night, the Travel Lodge on Farringdon Rd £165. I also used a I near identical Travel Lodge in Tamworth at £39 per night for 8 weeks. So I'm not talking the high luxury end or even the Marriott, which can be had in Manchester at sub £100. Central London hotels are ridiculously expensive because there are not enough, so rates are high.
Those sub £100 pound deals only apply on weekends in the the decent hotels, or hovels in Kings Cross during the week.
http://www.booking.com/searchresults.en-gb.html?ci...
Those sub £100 pound deals only apply on weekends in the the decent hotels, or hovels in Kings Cross during the week.
http://www.booking.com/searchresults.en-gb.html?ci...
Edited by 4x4Tyke on Wednesday 15th February 19:24
Gareth1974 said:
JB! said:
Eddh said:
JB! said:
Our London rate at work is something like £120? Its crap. £80 elsewhere.
£5 breakfast if you leave home before 6am, £5 lunch, £25 evening meal, no alcohol.
Civil Servant?£5 breakfast if you leave home before 6am, £5 lunch, £25 evening meal, no alcohol.
ETA - had a £56 hotel flag as over policy in Cardiff last week.
What a farce.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
4x4Tyke said:
I spent 3 months last year working in central London.
AirBnB or a deal in somewhere other than a Hotel is where I would have been......Hotel (any!) for 3 months is a no no from me....
GCH said:
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
4x4Tyke said:
I spent 3 months last year working in central London.
AirBnB or a deal in somewhere other than a Hotel is where I would have been......Hotel (any!) for 3 months is a no no from me....
GT03ROB said:
I've always taken a view that the test of reasonableness is "what would you do if it were your money?".
If you would normally spend your own money on a 5 star hotel then a 5 star is reasonable, if you wouldn't normally book anything more than a 3 star then a 5 star isn't reasonable. Very simplistic & loads of times that doesn't apply, but it's always a question I'd ask of myself or others.
Quite.If you would normally spend your own money on a 5 star hotel then a 5 star is reasonable, if you wouldn't normally book anything more than a 3 star then a 5 star isn't reasonable. Very simplistic & loads of times that doesn't apply, but it's always a question I'd ask of myself or others.
If I have my car with me then my priority is secure parking and I'd never expect the cost for this to be questioned by the business.
In terms of hotels, a Premier Inn will always suffice, especially because I rarely stay away for more than a couple of nights. I never claim breakfast or lunch - unless with a client - and dinners usually cost less than £30.
Ultimately my company is pretty relaxed however I submit my expenses directly to the CFO (a legacy thing) so that always helps to focus the mind as to whether something is appropriate or not.
What they REALLY don't like is if you cost the company significantly more money just because you haven't planned in advance e.g. you know you need to stay away in a month's time however you book a hotel 2 days before you're due to travel.
MrBarry123 said:
What they REALLY don't like is if you cost the company significantly more money just because you haven't planned in advance e.g. you know you need to stay away in a month's time however you book a hotel 2 days before you're due to travel.
Except if your company / industry is the type where plans change, often on late or short notice.Booked a non-refundable/non-changeable advance hotel or flight?.... whoops.
Potentially an expensive lesson to learn that one.
GCH said:
Except if your company / industry is the type where plans change, often on late or short notice.
Booked a non-refundable/non-changeable advance hotel or flight?.... whoops.
Potentially an expensive lesson to learn that one.
Of course and they appreciate that. We're always advised to make refundable/amendable bookings if booking in advance.Booked a non-refundable/non-changeable advance hotel or flight?.... whoops.
Potentially an expensive lesson to learn that one.
What they want to avoid is people booking a hotel at £150 per night (for a week) the night before beginning a deployment which has been confirmed for 4 weeks.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
AirBnB or a deal in somewhere other than a Hotel is where I would have been......
Hotel (any!) for 3 months is a no no from me....
I did get home at weekends but after 9pm Friday and back on the 6am train Monday. It was still aweful, even in decent Hotels. When they wanted me to carry on for another 6months you can guess my answer. Hotel (any!) for 3 months is a no no from me....
The 6months I got in Gib, was a whole better deal client provided an apartment in Ocean Village for most of my stay. Nice and I'm just a geek that drinks too much, not a powerfully built Co director that needs a gym.
Massively difficult to companies to manage to be fair though. I've worked under two very different regimes:
1 - Limit for meals to £25 per person (including gratuities) for dinner, brekkie only if you left before a certain time otherwise should be part of hotel rate for overnight stays, lunch not reclaimable. Hotels limited to £150 per night.
2- Do as you wish, but it must be reasonable. Was up to the budget holder to determine what was acceptable and we used to submit an estimate of costs pre-trip.
1 was obviously difficult, you found yourself scouring the menu ruling out certain dishes or limiting drinks to keep the bill down. Hotels were ok but you often had to negotiate the rate personally. Company had massive control over the budget and costs were kept down.
2 was the opposite of course, but I found (I was the company auditor) that people really took the piss and stayed in 5* hotels and ate expensive meals without any form of challenge, because ultimately the Company policy said they could.
It's meant to be a neutral benefit, you get what you are accustomed to- personally if I go out for a meal i don't have a starter, 2 sides and 4 beers but if your expenses policy 'allows' it then people do it. From a company perspective, that is not efficient business. Likewise hotels (back on topic), all people need is a decent room within x minutes from work and a £50 a night Lenny Henry special will be enough.
You can always top up the hotel bit by booking through Topcashback/Expedia or similar and getting the financial benefit back yourself.
1 - Limit for meals to £25 per person (including gratuities) for dinner, brekkie only if you left before a certain time otherwise should be part of hotel rate for overnight stays, lunch not reclaimable. Hotels limited to £150 per night.
2- Do as you wish, but it must be reasonable. Was up to the budget holder to determine what was acceptable and we used to submit an estimate of costs pre-trip.
1 was obviously difficult, you found yourself scouring the menu ruling out certain dishes or limiting drinks to keep the bill down. Hotels were ok but you often had to negotiate the rate personally. Company had massive control over the budget and costs were kept down.
2 was the opposite of course, but I found (I was the company auditor) that people really took the piss and stayed in 5* hotels and ate expensive meals without any form of challenge, because ultimately the Company policy said they could.
It's meant to be a neutral benefit, you get what you are accustomed to- personally if I go out for a meal i don't have a starter, 2 sides and 4 beers but if your expenses policy 'allows' it then people do it. From a company perspective, that is not efficient business. Likewise hotels (back on topic), all people need is a decent room within x minutes from work and a £50 a night Lenny Henry special will be enough.
You can always top up the hotel bit by booking through Topcashback/Expedia or similar and getting the financial benefit back yourself.
My (French owned) company has a policy for the French offices and factories but we don't have to subscribe to it in UK.
We have no fixed rules except 'don't take the piss!' I stay at mainly IHG group hotels, as I have a loyalty card I always book the cheapest room and get upgraded, often to something really nice.
I normally fly BA and often mange to get premium economy for less than normal economy.
Meals/alcohol are at my discretion, last year dinners ranged from £3.00 to £85 ! I've never had my expenses queried, they don't impose draconian rules so I don't take advantage!
We have no fixed rules except 'don't take the piss!' I stay at mainly IHG group hotels, as I have a loyalty card I always book the cheapest room and get upgraded, often to something really nice.
I normally fly BA and often mange to get premium economy for less than normal economy.
Meals/alcohol are at my discretion, last year dinners ranged from £3.00 to £85 ! I've never had my expenses queried, they don't impose draconian rules so I don't take advantage!
PoleDriver said:
I've never had my expenses queried, they don't impose draconian rules so I don't take advantage!
The problem for every company is that one person who took the piss, got caught and argued about it. I'm sure every draconian rule in every company is a result of 'that one person' which is a shame but hey, stick a policy down in writing and nothing to argue about. It's always a shame that the other, reasonable employees, end up suffering. Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff