Contract Clause
Discussion
Firstly i must say i have started on the pop so i will keep this as brief as possible;
I started job A ,at the start of October with a 6 month probation.Other two new starters had only 3 month (different roles).
Company A then puts me in company B as on site support (software) for 6 months , no issues i knew what i was getting into.
Fast forward to this week ,company A equal shows me feedback from company B so probation passed in theory next month..
Day after company B manager pretty much makes me an offer i cant really refuse (prospect and salary wise) in a project manager capacity role which i have experience in.
Also in company b ,design process lead A talks me up to his manager for a packaging role (design man at heart so preferred)and wants to take me on when theirs a position available as i am done/doing some great work for him that he couldn't previously visualize.
So thats the scene , the issue is this:
Company A says in contract , 1. 2month notice period 2. Cannot go to any direct competitor or customer within 6 months of leaving.
Local citizens advice close at 2.30 each weekday so i cant go.
Anyone had this issue , legally who do i turn to as i would like to be in company B as i have been trying for several years.
If successful here , we can turn it into a what car for 100mile commute thread ha.
I started job A ,at the start of October with a 6 month probation.Other two new starters had only 3 month (different roles).
Company A then puts me in company B as on site support (software) for 6 months , no issues i knew what i was getting into.
Fast forward to this week ,company A equal shows me feedback from company B so probation passed in theory next month..
Day after company B manager pretty much makes me an offer i cant really refuse (prospect and salary wise) in a project manager capacity role which i have experience in.
Also in company b ,design process lead A talks me up to his manager for a packaging role (design man at heart so preferred)and wants to take me on when theirs a position available as i am done/doing some great work for him that he couldn't previously visualize.
So thats the scene , the issue is this:
Company A says in contract , 1. 2month notice period 2. Cannot go to any direct competitor or customer within 6 months of leaving.
Local citizens advice close at 2.30 each weekday so i cant go.
Anyone had this issue , legally who do i turn to as i would like to be in company B as i have been trying for several years.
If successful here , we can turn it into a what car for 100mile commute thread ha.
I had this worry as I moved to a competitor my company didn't even mention it.
it depends on how high up the food chain you are. how it is worded as mine was very poorly written along the lines of cannot work for a competitor for six months anywhere in the country.
You need to find out if anyone has left previously to go to a competitior also what would happen if they terminated your contract?
the other option you do not need to tell them where you are going, however getting a reference from them may be difficult and they may pursue this further.
it depends on how high up the food chain you are. how it is worded as mine was very poorly written along the lines of cannot work for a competitor for six months anywhere in the country.
You need to find out if anyone has left previously to go to a competitior also what would happen if they terminated your contract?
the other option you do not need to tell them where you are going, however getting a reference from them may be difficult and they may pursue this further.
My employer would find out ,as i am going into the same team so the account manager will see me sat in the office...
The contract explicitly says i cannot go to "x" companies which are direct competitors ,which i am not. I am thinking to just go through the formal application process then see what they say when i have something in writing as surely you don't want a disgruntled employee.
I not high up , there are only 10 employees in my company (uk arm) although i am responsible with a colleague for this particular product. I just know that they will be funny as they struggled to recruit someone for this niche position and have invested in a little bit of internal training on me.
The contract explicitly says i cannot go to "x" companies which are direct competitors ,which i am not. I am thinking to just go through the formal application process then see what they say when i have something in writing as surely you don't want a disgruntled employee.
I not high up , there are only 10 employees in my company (uk arm) although i am responsible with a colleague for this particular product. I just know that they will be funny as they struggled to recruit someone for this niche position and have invested in a little bit of internal training on me.
Edited by pimpchez on Saturday 11th February 12:49
jkh112 said:
If I understand correctly you are still in your probation period. Whatever you decide I suspect it will be easier to leave and with a shorter notice period if you do it before you formally pass probation.
Yes if that was possible but it isnt , the role i have been offered is live internally .With no applications as of yet , this will run for another two weeks from a end of jan start date. HR will then faff around making it visible for external applicants (end of march ish) , by this point my probation period is over...Uunless I misunderstand, you're saying Company B have unofficially sounded you out about a job. If that's the case, tell the guy you are talking to the exact situation, in that if you cannot get an agreement asafp you'll be bound by your contract at Company A and may not be able to move as quickly as you'd like.
By the way, very few companies enforce this unless it's for Execs or critical staff with knowledge that could lose them a competitive advantage.
By the way, very few companies enforce this unless it's for Execs or critical staff with knowledge that could lose them a competitive advantage.
Jefferson Steelflex said:
Uunless I misunderstand, you're saying Company B have unofficially sounded you out about a job. If that's the case, tell the guy you are talking to the exact situation, in that if you cannot get an agreement asafp you'll be bound by your contract at Company A and may not be able to move as quickly as you'd like.
By the way, very few companies enforce this unless it's for Execs or critical staff with knowledge that could lose them a competitive advantage.
Thanks for the input , i will see down with company B this week.Not sure if they can break there very corporate HR structure but i will ask. I cant take any risks as i just couldn't afford any type of legal dispute.By the way, very few companies enforce this unless it's for Execs or critical staff with knowledge that could lose them a competitive advantage.
Understood, but the attempt to tell you who you can and can't work for is most likely unenforceable anyway. I think your risk is the other way round - i.e. you risk not going for a job you really want because of a contract term that is highly (and I mean almost certainly) not enforceable.
Besides what would the sue you for? Life is too short, if the other job is what you want then make it happen.
Besides what would the sue you for? Life is too short, if the other job is what you want then make it happen.
Company A might have an argument if, and only if, they were loosing the placement as a result of you moving to Company B as a direct employeee but I don't read your post that way. Other than that it's called restraint of trade and I don't believe it is enforceable unless you're very high in the food chain.
Another angle to look at is how did you come to be employed by Company A? If the same clause would have prevented you taking that employment offer they don't have a leg to stand on.
But in all things, money rules and if Company B are Company A's client Company A wont say boo to a goose about this.
Another angle to look at is how did you come to be employed by Company A? If the same clause would have prevented you taking that employment offer they don't have a leg to stand on.
But in all things, money rules and if Company B are Company A's client Company A wont say boo to a goose about this.
As I recall, Breadvan72 formerly of these parts would often opine on the enforceability of these clauses (= very enforceable, when reasonable) and moving from a company to one of its customers in direct disregard of a contractual term seems like there is potential for problems, even if it just means losing the offer and your current job. You might want to do a search of the PH records, because he gave plenty of legal advice about this stuff, and did appear to be an expert in this area.
Not being a lawyer myself I can only recommend you get an offer in writing from B then let A know of your plans and ask their blessing, hopefully if you are still probationary that won't be an issue. fFiling that you may want to run it past a solicitor.
Not being a lawyer myself I can only recommend you get an offer in writing from B then let A know of your plans and ask their blessing, hopefully if you are still probationary that won't be an issue. fFiling that you may want to run it past a solicitor.
Edited by essayer on Monday 13th February 10:38
Edited by essayer on Monday 13th February 10:41
ecs said:
Non-competes are often unenforceable, if they were serious about it then they'd pay you garden leave. Notice periods are just a starting point for negotiations.
They can, and are frequently enforced. That is dangerous advice.Shame breadvan isn't still a poster, as he literally wrote the book on it IIRC.
Fair enough, but in the OPs situation I would still advise this is not likely to happen. With respect to him, the job doesn't sound like one worthy of enforcing such a clause, and it is most likely a generic contract.
I think we all agree that he should take the job he wants (if/when it is offered), but there are some conversations he should have first.
I think we all agree that he should take the job he wants (if/when it is offered), but there are some conversations he should have first.
They have to be necessary, reasonable and for a reasonable duration. Most contracts I've seen have been so broad, unnecessary and for a ridiculous duration - i.e. I wouldn't be allowed to work in my industry for 12 months for no particular reason. I've worked at one place which said I wasn't allowed to work for any competitors, yet they were perfectly happy to employ people from competitors who had the same clause in their previous contracts.
Anyway, hence the caveat of 'often' - if they were serious about it then you'd know.
Anyway, hence the caveat of 'often' - if they were serious about it then you'd know.
Jefferson Steelflex said:
Fair enough, but in the OPs situation I would still advise this is not likely to happen. With respect to him, the job doesn't sound like one worthy of enforcing such a clause, and it is most likely a generic contract.
I think we all agree that he should take the job he wants (if/when it is offered), but there are some conversations he should have first.
No offense taken , thats my point i am just a worker. I am responsible for support and up selling of a software product that is all. I spoke to acas this morning and they straight away recommended seeking more legal advice , luckily the mrs has a regular customer (beauty of retail) that apparently specialises in this legal angle. I think we all agree that he should take the job he wants (if/when it is offered), but there are some conversations he should have first.
So i contacted him this morning , and he wasn't very positive. I have sent the contract over for him to examine further.
I have a meeting with company b later in the week to talk about this again , so i will explain to them where i am legally.
pimpchez said:
Jefferson Steelflex said:
Fair enough, but in the OPs situation I would still advise this is not likely to happen. With respect to him, the job doesn't sound like one worthy of enforcing such a clause, and it is most likely a generic contract.
I think we all agree that he should take the job he wants (if/when it is offered), but there are some conversations he should have first.
No offense taken , thats my point i am just a worker. I am responsible for support and up selling of a software product that is all. I spoke to acas this morning and they straight away recommended seeking more legal advice , luckily the mrs has a regular customer (beauty of retail) that apparently specialises in this legal angle. I think we all agree that he should take the job he wants (if/when it is offered), but there are some conversations he should have first.
So i contacted him this morning , and he wasn't very positive. I have sent the contract over for him to examine further.
I have a meeting with company b later in the week to talk about this again , so i will explain to them where i am legally.
One more thing to potentially think about.
If your present employer regularly places staff on customer sites, there may well be something in their contract with company B to stop the poaching of staff.
It may be that the manager at Company B that is offering the job, may well find out that it's something that he actually can't offer.
If your present employer regularly places staff on customer sites, there may well be something in their contract with company B to stop the poaching of staff.
It may be that the manager at Company B that is offering the job, may well find out that it's something that he actually can't offer.
Ok guys a short update
Spoke hiring manager no.2 as hiring manager no.1 leaves next week.He is more technically orientated so had a frank chat about my aspirations and he is happy to mold the role to suit my technical side.
In regards to the contract , he was a little shocked that the term is in there but confirmed that there is no poaching clause in his contract with my employer.He was a little a sympathetic as his requirement for more onsite support was the reason why company A hired me.
He basically turned around and said , he will talk to company A and ask for permission to go forward with me , so the ball is firmly in company Bs court now. It is just a case of waiting to see what happens.
Spoke hiring manager no.2 as hiring manager no.1 leaves next week.He is more technically orientated so had a frank chat about my aspirations and he is happy to mold the role to suit my technical side.
In regards to the contract , he was a little shocked that the term is in there but confirmed that there is no poaching clause in his contract with my employer.He was a little a sympathetic as his requirement for more onsite support was the reason why company A hired me.
He basically turned around and said , he will talk to company A and ask for permission to go forward with me , so the ball is firmly in company Bs court now. It is just a case of waiting to see what happens.
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