Have contractors just been hummed in the budget

[RockyBalboa]

ClockworkCupcake said:

Dr Jekyll said:

I refer you to my previous answer. Ultimately organisations don't pay corporation tax, people do, the question is therefore meaningless.

Eh? Corporation Tax is a tax on company profits paid by the company.

Corporations are responsible for corporation tax and obviously people run organisations.

<Captain Obvious>Ultimately, people are responsible for everything as there are no non-human corporations</Captain Obvious> However, richer people tend to run corporations and therefore, if they are liable for more corporation tax, I think that's fair.

[Dr Jekyll]

RockyBalboa said:

ClockworkCupcake said:

Dr Jekyll said:

I refer you to my previous answer. Ultimately organisations don't pay corporation tax, people do, the question is therefore meaningless.

Eh? Corporation Tax is a tax on company profits paid by the company.

Corporations are responsible for corporation tax and obviously people run organisations.

<Captain Obvious>Ultimately, people are responsible for everything as there are no non-human corporations</Captain Obvious>

So if the blindingly obvious fact that people are responsible for everything has finally filtered through to your braincell, do you now accept that corporation tax is a tax on people, primarily shareholders. Mildly disguised to convince the gullible that it's all paid by nasty wicked capitalist corporations not by them.

[Fastpedeller]

Dr Jekyll said:

So if the blindingly obvious fact that people are responsible for everything has finally filtered through to your braincell, do you now accept that corporation tax is a tax on people, primarily shareholders. Mildly disguised to convince the gullible that it's all paid by nasty wicked capitalist corporations not by them.

Reminds me of a conversation with a customer who was convinced that overheads were a cost that should be borne entirely by the person providing the service - he just couldn't understand that ultimately the customer pays. (this was before the 'bag tax') I asked him who he thought paid for the bags at Tesco "well they're free" he said and just couldn't comprehend that somewhere, somehow, the customer was paying

[ClockworkCupcake]

Dr Jekyll said:

So if the blindingly obvious fact that people are responsible for everything has finally filtered through to your braincell, do you now accept that corporation tax is a tax on people, primarily shareholders. Mildly disguised to convince the gullible that it's all paid by nasty wicked capitalist corporations not by them.

There's no need to get obnoxious and condescending, nor a need to resort to belittling and disparaging insults. This isn't The Lounge, SP&L or NP&E.
You may think it makes you look Powerfully Built but it just makes you sound like a pratt.

Corporation Tax is a tax on the profits of a business. How those profits are arrived at varies, and obviously there is only a finite pot of money (the turnover) out of which the shareholders dividends, staff salaries and the like have to come out of, so if more money is taken in tax then less is available for everything else. That's fairly obvious, and is the point you appear to be trying to make. Doesn't alter the fact that Corporation Tax is a tax on the business though.

Edited by ClockworkCupcake on Saturday 11th March 19:09

[Dr Jekyll]

RockyBalboa said:

ClockworkCupcake said:

Dr Jekyll said:

I refer you to my previous answer. Ultimately organisations don't pay corporation tax, people do, the question is therefore meaningless.

Eh? Corporation Tax is a tax on company profits paid by the company.

Corporations are responsible for corporation tax and obviously people run organisations.

<Captain Obvious>Ultimately, people are responsible for everything as there are no non-human corporations</Captain Obvious> However, richer people tend to run corporations and therefore, if they are liable for more corporation tax, I think that's fair.

And I'm supposed to be the one being obnoxious and condescending?
indeed.

Perhaps you could explain to Mr Balboa that corporation tax is largely levied on the shareholders, so however rich the managers who run the organisation might be doesn't justify it.

[ClockworkCupcake]

Dr Jekyll said:

Perhaps you could explain to Mr Balboa that corporation tax is largely levied on the shareholders, so however rich the managers who run the organisation might be doesn't justify it.

No it isn't. It is levied on the business, and dividends to shareholder are paid out of the money left over after the tax has been paid. Staff salaries come out of pre-tax profit and dividends come out of taxed profit.

Yes, I agree with you that it isn't a faceless ephemeral tax that doesn't affect anyone - of course it does. Just like a change in exchange rate does if the business has international sales and/or international suppliers.

RockyBalboa said:

However, richer people tend to run corporations and therefore, if they are liable for more corporation tax, I think that's fair.

You don't really understand tax, do you.

[Eric Mc]

zippy3x said:

I'm sorry, but this is all complete nonsense. This is precisely where we end up when HMRC delivers intentionally vague guidelines like IR35 and then instigates court cases based on those rules.

To follow this logic, if I ask a question about my Alfa in the BMW forums, does that make my Alfa a BMW?

If a person wants to be considered a business, they should raise their questions in the "business" section.

If they have a sneaking feeling that they may not be a bona fide business, then they may very well seek advice in the "employment" section.

Good job HMRC doesn't search PH.

[98elise]

RockyBalboa said:

ClockworkCupcake said:

Dr Jekyll said:

I refer you to my previous answer. Ultimately organisations don't pay corporation tax, people do, the question is therefore meaningless.

Eh? Corporation Tax is a tax on company profits paid by the company.

Corporations are responsible for corporation tax and obviously people run organisations.

<Captain Obvious>Ultimately, people are responsible for everything as there are no non-human corporations</Captain Obvious> However, richer people tend to run corporations and therefore, if they are liable for more corporation tax, I think that's fair.

The people running corporations do not pay corporation tax. The tax is on business profits, and would have otherwise gone to the shareholders. Shareholders can be anyone, but most of us will hold shares through our pension funds.

Unless the corporation is owned by the person running it, then corporation tax makes no difference to their income.

[RockyBalboa]

98elise said:

RockyBalboa said:

ClockworkCupcake said:

Dr Jekyll said:

I refer you to my previous answer. Ultimately organisations don't pay corporation tax, people do, the question is therefore meaningless.

Eh? Corporation Tax is a tax on company profits paid by the company.

Corporations are responsible for corporation tax and obviously people run organisations.

<Captain Obvious>Ultimately, people are responsible for everything as there are no non-human corporations</Captain Obvious> However, richer people tend to run corporations and therefore, if they are liable for more corporation tax, I think that's fair.

The people running corporations do not pay corporation tax. The tax is on business profits, and would have otherwise gone to the shareholders. Shareholders can be anyone, but most of us will hold shares through our pension funds.

Unless the corporation is owned by the person running it, then corporation tax makes no difference to their income.

Dr Jekyll said:

Corporation tax is paid largely by shareholders, partly by employees, partly by customers. All of whom pay plenty of tax as it is.

He said the above, not me. I was simply highlighting to Captain Obvious that that he is stating the bleeding obvious (people are responsible for everything) which adds nothing to this discussion.

[Dr Jekyll]

RockyBalboa said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Corporation tax is paid largely by shareholders, partly by employees, partly by customers. All of whom pay plenty of tax as it is.

Are large organisations paying their fair share of (corporation) tax?

If it's so bleeding obvious, how come you can't see it.?
It SHOULD be obvious that corporation tax isn't a money tree paid for by wicked capitalists in top hats, but clearly it isn't.

[ClockworkCupcake]

Dr Jekyll said:

It SHOULD be obvious that corporation tax isn't a money tree paid for by wicked capitalists in top hats, but clearly it isn't.

Yes, true. But it is still a business tax that it is paid by the company, and is a tax on profits. Those profits may be generated in part by the employees. To say it is paid *by* the shareholders or employees is just downright incorrect though. But you are entirely correct that the money has to come from somewhere and is not just magicked out of thin air.