A brief rant about recruitment consultants
Discussion
What do these people actually offer as a benefit to society? Years ago there were a few specialist technical recruitment firms that acted for agency staff, they'd place temporary technicians or engineers for bigger projects if a firm needed assistance.
Then they started representing permie staff too, offering people looking for a job relocation. Then people just looking to change employer in the hopes of a new challenge or more money. At that point they also started contacting the people they'd placed to try to get them to move on again to land the consultants another hefty fee.
Now it seems even students due to graduate this summer are using these firms to get them their first job. Costing the would-be employer 20% of the starting salary in fees to wave round a digital copy of a CV. In these IT literate days where every firm has a contact email address on their website, why can't these students email their CVs round themselves? Or are they too important to spare the 10 mins that would take? It's not even costing a stamp as it did when I graduated 20 years ago.
Then they started representing permie staff too, offering people looking for a job relocation. Then people just looking to change employer in the hopes of a new challenge or more money. At that point they also started contacting the people they'd placed to try to get them to move on again to land the consultants another hefty fee.
Now it seems even students due to graduate this summer are using these firms to get them their first job. Costing the would-be employer 20% of the starting salary in fees to wave round a digital copy of a CV. In these IT literate days where every firm has a contact email address on their website, why can't these students email their CVs round themselves? Or are they too important to spare the 10 mins that would take? It's not even costing a stamp as it did when I graduated 20 years ago.
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
It's cheaper to tell an agent the type of person you're after, and off-load the initial contact process rather than spending hours sifting through a stack of CV's.
If an agent sends candidates that don't match your criteria, you find a better agent.
Frankly in an office with 5 staff I'd rather sift through a few CVs than pay £5k to a consultant. Problem is that no-one applies for the jobs when advertised, they simply hand their CVs to the consultants who apply on their behalf. It really is money for old rope.If an agent sends candidates that don't match your criteria, you find a better agent.
I had 197 applicants for a £13000 pa receptionist job, only around 5 of those had any potential. The rest just needed to show that they had applied for a job, any job, so that they would keep their JSA.
I havent met a recruitment consultant that I could trust, whether as an employer or a candidate.
I havent met a recruitment consultant that I could trust, whether as an employer or a candidate.
I'll apply if you promise to pay for me to do a degree in that field and cover my relocation costs and pay me enough to be able buy a similar house nearby, and enough to make up for the income shortfall of the mrs not having work in that area..
£100k/pa ( After tax ) should do it plus £50k signing bonus paid in advance to cover aforementioned costs.
Ill be waiting for your call
£100k/pa ( After tax ) should do it plus £50k signing bonus paid in advance to cover aforementioned costs.
Ill be waiting for your call
Tom_C76 said:
What do these people actually offer as a benefit to society?
In my experience of visiting hundreds of different commercial premises over the years, they offer a cast-iron guarantee of hotties in their offices, over and above almost any other type of business. Carry on...
Johnnytheboy said:
Tom_C76 said:
What do these people actually offer as a benefit to society?
In my experience of visiting hundreds of different commercial premises over the years, they offer a cast-iron guarantee of hotties in their offices, over and above almost any other type of business. Carry on...
Nanook said:
My wife has recently started a new job as a payroll manager for a large accountacy firm.
She got the job through an agency, as the company in question hire everyone through an agency. They don't accept applications from individuals. Which is stupid, given what they pay the agency, and that she had to have an interview with someone at the firm anyway, but the agency are there to organise, and filter out the chaff.
The main part in bold.She got the job through an agency, as the company in question hire everyone through an agency. They don't accept applications from individuals. Which is stupid, given what they pay the agency, and that she had to have an interview with someone at the firm anyway, but the agency are there to organise, and filter out the chaff.
I don't like agencies particularly and I do take into account CVs sent directly to me. However, the last time I advertised a job on an open board, I received nearly 2,000 applications. Granted, many of those were crap, but I figured that since people had taken the time to respond to me, I should at least cast my eye over each application. Generally now, I pay an agent to do this initial check for me and then interview in full from there. Some higher roles are sourced by the agent too. It really depends on the role I'm looking for at the time.
There are some decent software solutions these days for sorting CVs.
One role I advertised had 500 applications, within a few mouse clicks the system narrowed that down to 10 based on pre selected criteria, I had a quick scan of those ten applications, then a few more mouse clicks and 6 people invited to interview, and 486 get the thanks but no thanks email.
One role I advertised had 500 applications, within a few mouse clicks the system narrowed that down to 10 based on pre selected criteria, I had a quick scan of those ten applications, then a few more mouse clicks and 6 people invited to interview, and 486 get the thanks but no thanks email.
Vandenberg said:
There are some decent software solutions these days for sorting CVs.
One role I advertised had 500 applications, within a few mouse clicks the system narrowed that down to 10 based on pre selected criteria, I had a quick scan of those ten applications, then a few more mouse clicks and 6 people invited to interview, and 486 get the thanks but no thanks email.
what software ? is it just keywords you're looking for ?One role I advertised had 500 applications, within a few mouse clicks the system narrowed that down to 10 based on pre selected criteria, I had a quick scan of those ten applications, then a few more mouse clicks and 6 people invited to interview, and 486 get the thanks but no thanks email.
Tom_C76 said:
In these IT literate days where every firm has a contact email address on their website, why can't these students email their CVs round themselves? Or are they too important to spare the 10 mins that would take? It's not even costing a stamp as it did when I graduated 20 years ago.
They are.I run a small recruitment firm.
I'm inclined to agree with the OP where grad jobs / office jobs are concerned, if an advert brings in lots of applicants, it's just a sifting job. Most of the jobs I work on I actually have to go out and find people, and feel fully justified in charging a fee. Advertising very rarely sees results for us, the skill in recruitment (and where they add value to the recruitment process) is in finding the hard to find candidates. We get the occasional easy-fill but it's not the norm.
You might think recruitment is easy; trust me, it isn't, and that is why most people don't last more than 6 months in the industry.
I'm inclined to agree with the OP where grad jobs / office jobs are concerned, if an advert brings in lots of applicants, it's just a sifting job. Most of the jobs I work on I actually have to go out and find people, and feel fully justified in charging a fee. Advertising very rarely sees results for us, the skill in recruitment (and where they add value to the recruitment process) is in finding the hard to find candidates. We get the occasional easy-fill but it's not the norm.
You might think recruitment is easy; trust me, it isn't, and that is why most people don't last more than 6 months in the industry.
I know what you mean - a bad RC is a nightmare, but a good one really is helpful. It's basically an industry with zero entry costs, so there are loads of people that can give it a go and finding the same of good ones is tricky. They're also, unsderstandably, busy.
At least with an RC you get to talk through the details and package of the job - I'm so sick of adverts with "competitive salary" on it - you don't know it's anywhere near what you'd want and I'm not going to the effort of tuning my CV and writing a covering letter for an unknown quantity. It' s like putting POA on a for sale advert.
At least with an RC you get to talk through the details and package of the job - I'm so sick of adverts with "competitive salary" on it - you don't know it's anywhere near what you'd want and I'm not going to the effort of tuning my CV and writing a covering letter for an unknown quantity. It' s like putting POA on a for sale advert.
Well.. I had a bit of a dig at an agent last week, I'd been put forward for one role and he rang me to say that whilst they were waiting for confirmation from client he'd circulated my CV to a dozen other companies in the area speculatively to see if he could "pro actively" create an "opening".
I said I'd rather he hadn't done that, reputation and all in a small industry I don't want my name and details thrown around speculatively like I was some fat girl looking for the last dance at 1:59am especially as I'm already with a company and supposed to be busy. He said "Don't worry" we remove all you personal details and contact info from your CV... I don't know if that's better or worse, people who know me will still know who I am from my CV...
Anyway he's got me an interview on the original role so I shouldn't complain too much.
Rant over.
I said I'd rather he hadn't done that, reputation and all in a small industry I don't want my name and details thrown around speculatively like I was some fat girl looking for the last dance at 1:59am especially as I'm already with a company and supposed to be busy. He said "Don't worry" we remove all you personal details and contact info from your CV... I don't know if that's better or worse, people who know me will still know who I am from my CV...
Anyway he's got me an interview on the original role so I shouldn't complain too much.
Rant over.
The OH has changed jobs every couple of years since she started working. She's always had recruiters on her radar but never actually got a job via one. I haven't changed jobs so often but it's the same story. Typically they'll message me on LinkedIn saying they've got a role which I might be interested in - which clearly I won't be and they'd know that if they'd read my bloody profile - but if I'm not interested could I ask anyone I know who might be to get in touch with them. No! f
k off and do your own job!!
k off and do your own job!!Tom_C76 said:
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
It's cheaper to tell an agent the type of person you're after, and off-load the initial contact process rather than spending hours sifting through a stack of CV's.
If an agent sends candidates that don't match your criteria, you find a better agent.
Frankly in an office with 5 staff I'd rather sift through a few CVs than pay £5k to a consultant. Problem is that no-one applies for the jobs when advertised, they simply hand their CVs to the consultants who apply on their behalf. It really is money for old rope.If an agent sends candidates that don't match your criteria, you find a better agent.
When I first started out 20 years ago (pre-internet) the only way to find people was national newspaper adverts. Even back then and advert in the Telegraph or similar was upwards of £2000 and response was not guaranteed.
Now the way people look for work has changed beyond comprehension. There are dozens of different job sites and you could easily pay a lot of money to advertise and get nobody. Then you might try again and get nobody. Then again. And finally, £1500 later you get someone who is not quite right but will have to do.
You have spent a load of your own time, money and hassle to get the wrong person.
The reason recruitment companies have those CVs to sift through is that they spend tens of thousands of pounds in advertising and hundreds of man hours finding them. The chap that you end up with is not down to luck, it is down to huge spending and lots of work.
Tom_C76 said:
wave round a digital copy of a CV.
Could write a thesis, but I lack the necessary motivation. If this is all your agency are doing (from either side of the fence) then you desperately need a new agency (or perhaps no agency at all).It's a bit disgusting to talk about money, but to give you some idea, my firm pays consultants an average of about £90k (we're not in London), under 30s make an average of £67k. You think we do that for them to 'wave around a digital CV'?
Agencies aren't for everyone, both candidates and clients. For some places will do just fine with an 'applications@' email address and little else.
Other places employ 200,000 people worldwide and have 200 strong teams of internal recruiters. For everyone else, agencies are a good option.
As to fees, a good example from my world is that, on average, if one of my candidates starts at 0900 on Jan 1st (go with it), they'll have billed back my fee by lunchtime on Jan 3rd. This is because the people I place and the firms into which I place them are the correct target market for agencies.
As I say, this is a brief overview, the whole story is much, much larger.
As with so much, if you don't like them, if they cause you such consternation, if you object so strongly, your best bet not to get all het up, but simply to make alternative provisions.
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