Advice on meeting a NED
Discussion
I work in a small but busy finance functions. There's three of us, the head of finance, the finance manager (me) and a finance assistant.
The head was initially hired as a finance manager. She supposedly 'set up' the function and was promoted to head. To be frank, she has little or no clue how to run a finance function. She is constantly asking me for support on dealing with different matters, be it on dealing with the senior management or technical matters. I asvise her on how to proceed. She takes my advice and it works. Management don't see this at all.
One of the NED's, who is also a qualified accountant, wants to meet with me to understand the finance function better. I appreciate i should sell what I can do. I was also a successful head of finance in my previous company. I want to express I don't have any recognition in the business as I don't meet seniors in my current role. I would love to say how naff the head actually is but I won't.
Any recommendations on how to structure my approach would be appreciated.
The head was initially hired as a finance manager. She supposedly 'set up' the function and was promoted to head. To be frank, she has little or no clue how to run a finance function. She is constantly asking me for support on dealing with different matters, be it on dealing with the senior management or technical matters. I asvise her on how to proceed. She takes my advice and it works. Management don't see this at all.
One of the NED's, who is also a qualified accountant, wants to meet with me to understand the finance function better. I appreciate i should sell what I can do. I was also a successful head of finance in my previous company. I want to express I don't have any recognition in the business as I don't meet seniors in my current role. I would love to say how naff the head actually is but I won't.
Any recommendations on how to structure my approach would be appreciated.
OK so first off you need to take all of the emotion out of it. Your first post makes you sound bitter that people are taking your ideas and knowledge and running with it and any half decent director will pick up that undertone.
Before you meet sit down and sketch out the department and acting as if you were an independent outside auditor of business performance do an analysis of each section, short description of what their measurable outcomes are and then a strengths and weaknesses with suggestions of how to improve the strengths and how to turn around the weaknesses.
You can then take the director through how it all works from a dispassionate business perspective outlining what's good and what can be improved (don't forget the hand offs to and from other business areas which are often where the problems lie)
You don't need to give your assessment of other people. Unless you are qualified to do this through being an occupational psychologist or as the leader of development assessment centres etc in the organisation it will always come across as a moan and one upmanship and that never goes down well. Of course there is nothing to stop you talking about your coaching of unit staff based on your more senior prior experience and this can include coaching upwards but it's always in a positive frame
Before you meet sit down and sketch out the department and acting as if you were an independent outside auditor of business performance do an analysis of each section, short description of what their measurable outcomes are and then a strengths and weaknesses with suggestions of how to improve the strengths and how to turn around the weaknesses.
You can then take the director through how it all works from a dispassionate business perspective outlining what's good and what can be improved (don't forget the hand offs to and from other business areas which are often where the problems lie)
You don't need to give your assessment of other people. Unless you are qualified to do this through being an occupational psychologist or as the leader of development assessment centres etc in the organisation it will always come across as a moan and one upmanship and that never goes down well. Of course there is nothing to stop you talking about your coaching of unit staff based on your more senior prior experience and this can include coaching upwards but it's always in a positive frame
Lostprophet said:
Any recommendations on how to structure my approach would be appreciated.
Take along a copy of the monthly Board /SMT pack (containing the mgmt accounts and KPI stuff), take a copy of the medium term financial strategy, normally I'd take a finance department structure chart but if there's only 3 of you it might be overkill.Go through team structure and roles
Go through monthly mgmt accounts and forecast outturn
Compare forecast outturn to Business Plan and MTFS
The NED should already be aware of how the organisation is performing. What (I'm guessing) he wants to know is what the finance team approach and involvement is. For example
Do they just punch numbers into spreadsheets
How engaged are they with front line / operational staff
Who is providing the strategic "added value"? Is it only the FD or is it something everybody in finance takes onboard?
Countdown; have been in the business 6 months and to date I still have not seen the management accounts that are presented to the board by the Head!!!
Craig I think you are right. It's best not to highlight how lame my manager is. It won't look good on me.
Craig I think you are right. It's best not to highlight how lame my manager is. It won't look good on me.
Edited by Lostprophet on Sunday 26th March 11:09
craigjm said:
OK so first off you need to take all of the emotion out of it. Your first post makes you sound bitter that people are taking your ideas and knowledge and running with it and any half decent director will pick up that undertone.
Before you meet sit down and sketch out the department and acting as if you were an independent outside auditor of business performance do an analysis of each section, short description of what their measurable outcomes are and then a strengths and weaknesses with suggestions of how to improve the strengths and how to turn around the weaknesses.
You can then take the director through how it all works from a dispassionate business perspective outlining what's good and what can be improved (don't forget the hand offs to and from other business areas which are often where the problems lie)
You don't need to give your assessment of other people. Unless you are qualified to do this through being an occupational psychologist or as the leader of development assessment centres etc in the organisation it will always come across as a moan and one upmanship and that never goes down well. Of course there is nothing to stop you talking about your coaching of unit staff based on your more senior prior experience and this can include coaching upwards but it's always in a positive frame
This is good advice. Avoid personalizing any issues. If you want to present issues then a strengths / "opportunities for improvement" is a nicer way to spin it but make sure that you present a balanced picture... though not at the cost of the truth (it is a delicate balance)Before you meet sit down and sketch out the department and acting as if you were an independent outside auditor of business performance do an analysis of each section, short description of what their measurable outcomes are and then a strengths and weaknesses with suggestions of how to improve the strengths and how to turn around the weaknesses.
You can then take the director through how it all works from a dispassionate business perspective outlining what's good and what can be improved (don't forget the hand offs to and from other business areas which are often where the problems lie)
You don't need to give your assessment of other people. Unless you are qualified to do this through being an occupational psychologist or as the leader of development assessment centres etc in the organisation it will always come across as a moan and one upmanship and that never goes down well. Of course there is nothing to stop you talking about your coaching of unit staff based on your more senior prior experience and this can include coaching upwards but it's always in a positive frame
(I'm a NED)
Also, when you start the meeting, you may want to take the initiative to clarify the ground rules. "Chatham House rules" is a good approach.
How about prepare some flow diagrams for the key functions, ideally with swimlanes for each actor (person or organisation unit), showing who does what in what sequence, from an input or triggering event through to outputs (such as reports, payments, etc).
This will show that you have prep'ed the discussion (brownie points) so as not to waste the NED's time and unless he/she is thick as anything, they will understand where the actual work is being done and value is being created
This will show that you have prep'ed the discussion (brownie points) so as not to waste the NED's time and unless he/she is thick as anything, they will understand where the actual work is being done and value is being created
I genuinely would not mention ANYTHING about the HoF. It's not your place to do so and it could backfire in different ways.
Also I wouldn't suggest "Chatham House Rules" - it's a completely normal meeting in the course of business. Suggesting CHR makes it look like you want to discuss something which needs to be kept private/confidential. It's creating an atmosphere which will puzzle the NED and make him wonder what the need is for all the mystery.
Also I wouldn't suggest "Chatham House Rules" - it's a completely normal meeting in the course of business. Suggesting CHR makes it look like you want to discuss something which needs to be kept private/confidential. It's creating an atmosphere which will puzzle the NED and make him wonder what the need is for all the mystery.
Countdown said:
I genuinely would not mention ANYTHING about the HoF. It's not your place to do so and it could backfire in different ways.
Also I wouldn't suggest "Chatham House Rules" - it's a completely normal meeting in the course of business. Suggesting CHR makes it look like you want to discuss something which needs to be kept private/confidential. It's creating an atmosphere which will puzzle the NED and make him wonder what the need is for all the mystery.
It depends. Also I wouldn't suggest "Chatham House Rules" - it's a completely normal meeting in the course of business. Suggesting CHR makes it look like you want to discuss something which needs to be kept private/confidential. It's creating an atmosphere which will puzzle the NED and make him wonder what the need is for all the mystery.
If you are happy with any material being used verbatim then fine.
Otherwise most meetings with a NED should be non attributable to allow a free flow of disucussion in a high trust environment without the employee feeling that the conversation will be played back entirely...
(And yes rule not rules)
Vaud said:
Oh and to build, I don't think it's that usual for a NED to meet with reports to the finance lead... unless they are actually have concerns.
Agree to a point. Some NEDs like to understand the nuts and bolts as well as getting assurances about risk management. It's better to get the unvarnished truth from those at the coalface rather than the filtered "official" version from the HoF.Countdown said:
Agree to a point. Some NEDs like to understand the nuts and bolts as well as getting assurances about risk management. It's better to get the unvarnished truth from those at the coalface rather than the filtered "official" version from the HoF.
True. An experienced NED will help the employee understand the context. Blimey.
It's apparent from these posts that I was always right to avoid large organisations. I don't have a 'corporate' mindset nor the patience to pretend. My original reply really reflected that; my attitidue is 'just talk to the bloke. He's a human being and so are you.'
I couldn't be arsed with all the presentation b
ks. If he wants something he can just ask for it, and as far as I can see, all he's aksed for at this point is a conversation.
It's apparent from these posts that I was always right to avoid large organisations. I don't have a 'corporate' mindset nor the patience to pretend. My original reply really reflected that; my attitidue is 'just talk to the bloke. He's a human being and so are you.'
I couldn't be arsed with all the presentation b
ks. If he wants something he can just ask for it, and as far as I can see, all he's aksed for at this point is a conversation.I've been a NED in the past, as well as an ED and a business owner. For me, the personal attitude is paramount. Somebody who removes personal feelings from a conversation with me is not being sincere. It's possible to be objective and still have an opinion, and I value the expertise and experience (and therefore the opinion) of every single member of my team.
Mental wellbeing is the number one hygiene factor as far as I'm concerned. I won't always promise to act upon somebody else's feelings, but if I don't know what they are, how can I even pretend to value my people?
Mental wellbeing is the number one hygiene factor as far as I'm concerned. I won't always promise to act upon somebody else's feelings, but if I don't know what they are, how can I even pretend to value my people?
Doofus, in many ways I am like you, which is why I thought it best to get a wider perspective.
My business is only 70 strong. We had a presentation from Paul Moore, the HBOS whistle-blower, I could see the NED writing a lot of his sentiments down. Paul was discussing the need for NEDs to be more actively involved in firms.
I have just sent an email thanking her for her time and asking for a brief idea of what she would like to talk about.
I will keep the above in mind. There's seems to some themes linking the posts however these is a divide on how open I should be with respect to honest opinion. Some respects opinion others think it will be counter productive.
My business is only 70 strong. We had a presentation from Paul Moore, the HBOS whistle-blower, I could see the NED writing a lot of his sentiments down. Paul was discussing the need for NEDs to be more actively involved in firms.
I have just sent an email thanking her for her time and asking for a brief idea of what she would like to talk about.
I will keep the above in mind. There's seems to some themes linking the posts however these is a divide on how open I should be with respect to honest opinion. Some respects opinion others think it will be counter productive.
Edited by Lostprophet on Sunday 26th March 13:28
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