NHS Staff Sickness

[Sheepshanks]

djc206 said:

Forester1965 said:

Sickness isn't the biggest shocker.

That's reserved for NHS staff 'retiring', triggering their pension payments, then returning on 'reduced hours' whilst seeing their pay remain the same or increase. Double bubble.

How is that shocking? It’s not unusual for people to have both pension and employment income at the same time.

There's a few public sector organisations where that happens - there was a row a few years ago when Chief Fire Officers were doing it, they "retired" but carried on doing the same job. LA's loved it as they no longer had to pay massive pension contributions, and the firemen went from being apid £150K/yr to £250K.

Yet in the Civil Service it's not allowed. The Government did talk about changing it as they were so short of staff in some Departments but I don't think that's happened.

[djc206]

Sheepshanks said:

There's a few public sector organisations where that happens - there was a row a few years ago when Chief Fire Officers were doing it, they "retired" but carried on doing the same job. LA's loved it as they no longer had to pay massive pension contributions, and the firemen went from being apid £150K/yr to £250K.

Yet in the Civil Service it's not allowed. The Government did talk about changing it as they were so short of staff in some Departments but I don't think that's happened.

In the civil service you can “partially retire”

I really don’t see the issue. If someone wants to continue working beyond their pensionable age that’s a good thing for all of us.

[LimmerickLad]

djc206 said:

Forester1965 said:

djc206 said:

Forester1965 said:

Sickness isn't the biggest shocker.

That's reserved for NHS staff 'retiring', triggering their pension payments, then returning on 'reduced hours' whilst seeing their pay remain the same or increase. Double bubble.

How is that shocking? It’s not unusual for people to have both pension and employment income at the same time.

It's shocking because the NHS pension is unfunded (paid out of taxation, no bearing on investment performance of the pot). It's also absurdly generous. The situation encourages staff to retire, return and reduce their hours, meaning the tax payer gets less whilst paying a lot more.

It’s an accrued benefit that they’ve earned. That’s is funded from taxation is neither here nor there.

The tax payer gets something, if they just retired we’d get nothing at all.

What state would hospitals be in if all experienced "pensioned" nurses left do you think? Any idea how much tax a returning pensioned nurse pays if they go over their final salary level with their new combined pension / salary?

What would happen to nursing levels if all pensioned (insert and highly experienced) nurses left and never returned?

Edited by LimmerickLad on Wednesday 20th March 10:04

[LimmerickLad]

Interesting read perhaps?

"What is the average age of a UK Registered Nurse in 2024?

According to NMC Register figures, the biggest age demographic of UK Registered Nurses is the 21-40 age group with 336,396 registered professionals. Other demographics are:

41-55 = 285,199

56+ = 167,002 - The number of Registered Nurses working in potential retirement age grew in the last year by 3.7%


There are 46,828 NHS nursing vacancies according to the most recent data."

https://www.nurses.co.uk/blog/stats-and-facts-uk-n...

[Sheepshanks]

djc206 said:

In the civil service you can “partially retire”

I really don’t see the issue. If someone wants to continue working beyond their pensionable age that’s a good thing for all of us.

In my wife's case she turned voluntary redundancy into early retirement as it co-incided with our first grandchild arriving.

Then her old boss asked her to go back to do a project - she wasn't that keen anyway, but it went some way down the line before it got blocked. IIRC in theory they can undo the retirement but it's not trivial to do that.

[Sheepshanks]

LimmerickLad said:

Interesting read perhaps?

"What is the average age of a UK Registered Nurse in 2024?

According to NMC Register figures, the biggest age demographic of UK Registered Nurses is the 21-40 age group with 336,396 registered professionals. Other demographics are:

41-55 = 285,199

56+ = 167,002 - The number of Registered Nurses working in potential retirement age grew in the last year by 3.7%


There are 46,828 NHS nursing vacancies according to the most recent data."

https://www.nurses.co.uk/blog/stats-and-facts-uk-n...

Most of what people think of nurses doing is now done by HCA's.

[asfault]

NHS should have a higher than average sickness % due to the environment they are in. Literally sick people all around them.
Also they shouldn't be coming into work unwell whilst a retail worker or delivery driver could come to work with a cold or headache etc and be fine.

[Mark_S1000RR_2010]

I work in/with lots and lots of NHS Trusts, in a clinical role. The staff are all to a man/woman, dedicated to their job and never try to gain the system.

You want to know what’s wrong with the NHS? Not enough money. It’s as simple as that. It’s not the odd member of staff being off with long-term sickness. Only an idiot would find equivalency in our stricken health service and absenteeism.

[LimmerickLad]

Sheepshanks said:

LimmerickLad said:

Interesting read perhaps?

"What is the average age of a UK Registered Nurse in 2024?

According to NMC Register figures, the biggest age demographic of UK Registered Nurses is the 21-40 age group with 336,396 registered professionals. Other demographics are:

41-55 = 285,199

56+ = 167,002 - The number of Registered Nurses working in potential retirement age grew in the last year by 3.7%


There are 46,828 NHS nursing vacancies according to the most recent data."

https://www.nurses.co.uk/blog/stats-and-facts-uk-n...

Most of what people think of nurses doing is now done by HCA's.

Not sure what that has to do with NHS pensioners, including nurses, returning to work.

[djc206]

Mark_S1000RR_2010 said:

I work in/with lots and lots of NHS Trusts, in a clinical role. The staff are all to a man/woman, dedicated to their job and never try to gain the system.

You want to know what’s wrong with the NHS? Not enough money. It’s as simple as that. It’s not the odd member of staff being off with long-term sickness. Only an idiot would find equivalency in our stricken health service and absenteeism.

The NHS lost 27 million days to sickness in 2022. That’s definitely worth addressing and it’s not going to be as simple as more money. That there’s a stark contrast between doctors and other clinical staff sickness rates also points towards some underlying potentially cultural issues.

Not everyone is dedicated and professional and the NHS is certainly no exception to that rule.

[Downward]

Forester1965 said:

Sickness isn't the biggest shocker.

That's reserved for NHS staff 'retiring', triggering their pension payments, then returning on 'reduced hours' whilst seeing their pay remain the same or increase. Double bubble.

Does this happen in the police where retirement can be from 50 ?
And Fire where it’s 55-60 ?

NHS scheme now it’s 67.

[Sheepshanks]

LimmerickLad said:

Sheepshanks said:

Most of what people think of nurses doing is now done by HCA's.

Not sure what that has to do with NHS pensioners, including nurses, returning to work.

You were talking about what would happen if nurses left and didn't come back. I'm saying that, especially for older nurses, it's likely most of their work can be done by HCAs.

There's already a row going on about HCAs role being broadened to cover nurses duties. As there is about nurses doing what doctors used to do.

[Downward]

Forester1965 said:

Sickness isn't the biggest shocker.

That's reserved for NHS staff 'retiring', triggering their pension payments, then returning on 'reduced hours' whilst seeing their pay remain the same or increase. Double bubble.

Like Sir Dave ?
11 years later he is still working amazingly.

NHS boss Sir David Nicholson will step down next year, taking with him a pension pot worth almost £1.9 million.
The NHS England chief executive officer, whose basic salary is £211,000, has announced that he will retire from the role next March.

He was appointed interim Chair of Worcestershire Acute Hospitals NHS Trust in March 2018.[17] He was later appointed to the role of Chair on a permanent basis during December 2018. He was announced as Chair of Sandwell and West Birmingham Hospitals NHS Trust in March 2021, replacing the retiring Richard Samuda from the beginning of May.[18] In July 2022 he was also appointed chair of Dudley Group NHS Foundation Trust as he relinquished the job in Worcestershire.
He was appointed chairman of the newly-established State Health Services Organisation in Cyprus in 2018

[LimmerickLad]

Sheepshanks said:

LimmerickLad said:

Sheepshanks said:

Most of what people think of nurses doing is now done by HCA's.

Not sure what that has to do with NHS pensioners, including nurses, returning to work.

You were talking about what would happen if nurses left and didn't come back. I'm saying that, especially for older nurses, it's likely most of their work can be done by HCAs.

There's already a row going on about HCAs role being broadened to cover nurses duties. As there is about nurses doing what doctors used to do.

Assuming you are serious..................next time her bosses beg my 65yr old wife not to retire again I'll tell her that........based on the very many "older" and generally senior nurses I know personally, I can assure you an HCA definately couldn't do much, if any their work......maybe some of the work of junior nurses is being and / or can be done by HCA's, and if they are capable and trained properly I don't see why not. (in fact without going into detail, this is something wy wife is directly involved in)..just a shame she is not be able to post on here about it for obvious reasons.

My guess would be "older"retiring age nurses have many skills built up over many years of experience and stopping them taking their pension and coming back to work will do the NHS absolutely no good whatsoever..that said however, on a personal level our family and I will rejoice the day my wife does retire but for for good this time.


ETA She could also probably write a book based on the original title of this thread so perhaps she could do that when she retires

Edited by LimmerickLad on Wednesday 20th March 13:05

[Leicester Loyal]

Don't hate the player, hate the game...