New employees on higher rate of pay
Discussion
There's very few jobs where you are correctly renumerated or rewarded for loyalty or even 'doing a great job'. I worked this out VERY early on in my career as mechanical design engineer within big multi-national consultancies. I had graduates coming in on more money than me despite being in post for 2 years and labelled as an 'intermediate' engineer.
I chopped and swapped between firms and doubled my salary within 3 years....which is when I realised I was in fact, much better off Contracting and avoiding all of the politics that go with staff roles. Still Contracting 10 years later, still going strong and the chop and change suits me to the ground, but luckily all of my work is on my doorstep.
Of course, contracting isn't for everyone, but if newbies to the firm getting paid more than you doesn't seem "fair", you need to find another role elsewhere to keep your rate inline with the rest of the market. Your existing employer WILL be looking to screw you over.
Dog eat dog - no one's going to help progress your career unless you get out there and do it yourself.
I chopped and swapped between firms and doubled my salary within 3 years....which is when I realised I was in fact, much better off Contracting and avoiding all of the politics that go with staff roles. Still Contracting 10 years later, still going strong and the chop and change suits me to the ground, but luckily all of my work is on my doorstep.
Of course, contracting isn't for everyone, but if newbies to the firm getting paid more than you doesn't seem "fair", you need to find another role elsewhere to keep your rate inline with the rest of the market. Your existing employer WILL be looking to screw you over.
Dog eat dog - no one's going to help progress your career unless you get out there and do it yourself.
Edited by MattyD803 on Thursday 28th March 09:06
Ken_Code said:
simon_harris said:
My understanding is that if they are doing the same (or broadly the same) role as you then it is not legal to pay you differently.
https://www.unison.org.uk/get-help/knowledge/pay/e...
George Russell needs to get his claim in now for the £35m per year he’s being underpaid.https://www.unison.org.uk/get-help/knowledge/pay/e...
I recently dealt with a situation where new hires were being paid more than incumbents (same sex) and they raised it as an issue with HR after seeing the rates advertised for the role, the assessment we came to after consulting our legal team was that we would have to pay them the same. There was a supportable argument that existing employees with experience could be paid more than the new hires but not the other way around unless there was demonstrable difference in the function of the roles (JD made no difference it was about what they did and the output of the role)
The explanation we got back was that though originally the legislation was designed for men/woman/racial split it was just as effective in same sex situations.
What she didn't know was that I was already progressing a payrise for her that would have taken her above the new hires but because she didn't talk to me first she just ended up with the same.
This is very possibly by design.
- Many employees won't ask for a pay rise and will just grumble. So it's a way to keep average wages slightly lower.
- Employment rights and redundancy pay improve over time, so this is a way to put slight pressure on older employees to leave on their own accord.
- Some companies target a certain churn.
It's very industry specific, of course. Some industries with high training and recruitment costs put a lot of effort into retention and internal pay structures. But not all
- Many employees won't ask for a pay rise and will just grumble. So it's a way to keep average wages slightly lower.
- Employment rights and redundancy pay improve over time, so this is a way to put slight pressure on older employees to leave on their own accord.
- Some companies target a certain churn.
It's very industry specific, of course. Some industries with high training and recruitment costs put a lot of effort into retention and internal pay structures. But not all
simon_harris said:
Until GR has7 WDC's then they are not doing the same job...
I recently dealt with a situation where new hires were being paid more than incumbents (same sex) and they raised it as an issue with HR after seeing the rates advertised for the role, the assessment we came to after consulting our legal team was that we would have to pay them the same. There was a supportable argument that existing employees with experience could be paid more than the new hires but not the other way around unless there was demonstrable difference in the function of the roles (JD made no difference it was about what they did and the output of the role)
The explanation we got back was that though originally the legislation was designed for men/woman/racial split it was just as effective in same sex situations.
What she didn't know was that I was already progressing a payrise for her that would have taken her above the new hires but because she didn't talk to me first she just ended up with the same.
It’s definitely more similar than are dinner ladies to bin men.I recently dealt with a situation where new hires were being paid more than incumbents (same sex) and they raised it as an issue with HR after seeing the rates advertised for the role, the assessment we came to after consulting our legal team was that we would have to pay them the same. There was a supportable argument that existing employees with experience could be paid more than the new hires but not the other way around unless there was demonstrable difference in the function of the roles (JD made no difference it was about what they did and the output of the role)
The explanation we got back was that though originally the legislation was designed for men/woman/racial split it was just as effective in same sex situations.
What she didn't know was that I was already progressing a payrise for her that would have taken her above the new hires but because she didn't talk to me first she just ended up with the same.
Its pretty normal. You recruit in a labour market at that time. So if the market demands you pay more or you have no takers, then you pay more.
However. In my business, I benchmark all staff salaries every year and make adjustments where there are large discrepancies. For instance, my 30 year old land manager was on £60k, to recruit someone with the same skillsets I would now have to pay £80k, so I lifted her salary to £80k and also moved other roles at the same seniority level (head of planning, head of partnerships etc) to the same salary.
However. In my business, I benchmark all staff salaries every year and make adjustments where there are large discrepancies. For instance, my 30 year old land manager was on £60k, to recruit someone with the same skillsets I would now have to pay £80k, so I lifted her salary to £80k and also moved other roles at the same seniority level (head of planning, head of partnerships etc) to the same salary.
Our company pay scales for each grade/market are ~ +/- 20% of a centre point. The centre of range is supposed to be the "target" for employees who have consistently hit the expectations of the role over quite a number of years (assuming a promotion internally into the role and therefore at the bottom end). If we employee people from outside who already have the skill sets, we have to pay more to entice them.....but we are also careful not to pitch too high as otherwise their growth potential within the role will be impacted in terms of salary band. The bands also change per market....so not unusual to have people in more junior roles payed way more than senior roles if they are in a high cost of living market.
As far as I know, it's always been like this. You have 2 options : Put a case forward as to why you are worth more, or leave.
How do you know what others earn ?
As far as I know, it's always been like this. You have 2 options : Put a case forward as to why you are worth more, or leave.
How do you know what others earn ?
Unfortunately not unusual for new hires to get a better pay, number of reasons, I’ve come to learn many people become way too use to the routine and security of their job, who’s going to leave and be the martyr for a pay rise?, most staff will rather you left, but you’d rather they left. Also the new start has no job security for their probation period? Depends on how much work is in your field of work, if you don't attain a pay rise can you tread water and go minimum?
Steve Campbell said:
How do you know what others earn ?
Back in 2002 we were told we couldn’t discuss salary by the managers when they did a market adjustment. But, someone checked and it wasn’t enforceable. We were all sat in the smoking room and one person shouted “I got £21,500”. From there everyone confirmed they were on the same. For me, that was a 50% pay rise so I was happy. When the new hire positions were posted they included a fixed salary in the advert. No range, just £25k. We all knew what we were on and what the new guys were going to make. Money used to be much more openly discussed in the UK. When I moved to the US I was told clearly not to talk about money. After managing a team I can see why. The range of salary for the same role is crazy.
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