anyone need a job

[dilbert]

polus said:

dilbert said:

I dunno where you work, but it doesn't sound like where I am!!!!

I presume due to your previous comment that the housing market is stopping you being able to move to find a job - the housing market situation in this country is terrible. I’m currently trying to reach/jump on the bottom, broken rung of the ladder.

dilbert said:

The thing about the government is interesting. Whilst I care about engineering, there isn't much point in having engineers working within the government, if their purpose there is irrelevant.

True. I guess I’m looking on this with some naivety - just makes me wonder what these IET people are doing all day - they seem to like paper shuffling and self praise...

dilbert said:

There's not much point trying to fight the public schoolies for a right to exist, when at the end of the day they are being duped into thinking they have power.

Im not bothered about status. I became and Enigneer becuase its a subject that I find interesting and I enjoy solving problems (although sometimes desk items still gets flung across the room ).

dilbert said:

As for the car, I don't know what I'm going to ask, but it's probably going this year. It's certainly servicable, so if you want an expensive hack it's all yours.

As above; trying to afford a house. One thing at a time Anyway I was really getting at the fact that investing lots of money in new euroboxes that depreciate so much is not something I want to do again.

Ayway, good luck with the job hunt.

BTW: just out of interest what would you consider a decent wage for a professional Engineer?

Edited by polus on Sunday 21st January 02:38

I think thats an interesting question.

This is a bit offtopic for the original post, and I really wouldn't want to cast aspersions. For the record, I don't know the OP at all. These are really general comments.

It all depends on what's required. If it's something that you could teach someone to do, somewhat less, than something than someone would have to work out for themselves. The trouble is that the management want to pay people the lower ammount and have people work it out themselves.

The reason that this has happened is because the management have compromised their engineers, possibly in the interests of profit, but maybe also by not being dynamic in the market. By undervaluing those who can always work it out for themselves, business direction has suffered. As you would expect production, which makes direct money has not.

The trouble is that as the people who cannot work it out for themselves, have moved, the knowledge has been lost. Now there's nobody to sort out what has to be done. Production suffers, and then there's no money to support those who can work it out for themselves.

Obviously there are many other smaller factors that influence the situation. Usually production struggles on. The business may fold, because not only can it not make product efficiently, but also because it does not have the direction to make it dynamic in the market.

In the end, the wage is dictated, by the profit margin in the product and the number of units sold. When you find yourself in a company, there may be people who can work it out for themselves. If they are not sufficiently in the loop to understand the difference between what they can be paid, and what they want, and also where the value in the company comes from, the writing is on the wall.

You cannot afford to have people working in engineering at a level below that which they are capable. Even if it costs more to use them in that way. Not employing them if you know they are there, may seem like a solution. I'm not sure it is. It may be, but one must surely be satisfied that the company is sufficiently progressive, competitive and dynamic to survive.

From a management perspective I guess it's like eating Lotus. Fat and happy you reap the rewards of management, unable to see the slide.

Before you know it, the company is a service company again. Remember those, ahh yes, Service Industry Britain. Rather than make those things, the legacy is serviced. It's easy. No problems, consistent money..... Until the client realises that he can do what you're doing cheaper himself. Pop.

Edited by dilbert on Sunday 21st January 03:22

[justnotsure]

dilbert said:

polus said:

dilbert said:

I dunno where you work, but it doesn't sound like where I am!!!!

I presume due to your previous comment that the housing market is stopping you being able to move to find a job - the housing market situation in this country is terrible. I’m currently trying to reach/jump on the bottom, broken rung of the ladder.

dilbert said:

The thing about the government is interesting. Whilst I care about engineering, there isn't much point in having engineers working within the government, if their purpose there is irrelevant.

True. I guess I’m looking on this with some naivety - just makes me wonder what these IET people are doing all day - they seem to like paper shuffling and self praise...

dilbert said:

There's not much point trying to fight the public schoolies for a right to exist, when at the end of the day they are being duped into thinking they have power.

Im not bothered about status. I became and Enigneer becuase its a subject that I find interesting and I enjoy solving problems (although sometimes desk items still gets flung across the room ).

dilbert said:

As for the car, I don't know what I'm going to ask, but it's probably going this year. It's certainly servicable, so if you want an expensive hack it's all yours.

As above; trying to afford a house. One thing at a time Anyway I was really getting at the fact that investing lots of money in new euroboxes that depreciate so much is not something I want to do again.

Ayway, good luck with the job hunt.

BTW: just out of interest what would you consider a decent wage for a professional Engineer?

Edited by polus on Sunday 21st January 02:38

I think thats an interesting question.

This is a bit offtopic for the original post, and I really wouldn't want to cast aspersions. For the record, I don't know the OP at all. These are really general comments.

It all depends on what's required. If it's something that you could teach someone to do, somewhat less, than something than someone would have to work out for themselves. The trouble is that the management want to pay people the lower ammount and have people work it out themselves.

The reason that this has happened is because the management have compromised their engineers, possibly in the interests of profit, but maybe also by not being dynamic in the market. By undervaluing those who can always work it out for themselves, business direction has suffered. As you would expect production, which makes direct money has not.

The trouble is that as the people who cannot work it out for themselves, have moved, the knowledge has been lost. Now there's nobody to sort out what has to be done. Production suffers, and then there's no money to support those who can work it out for themselves.

Obviously there are many other smaller factors that influence the situation. Usually production struggles on. The business may fold, because not only can it not make product efficiently, but also because it does not have the direction to make it dynamic in the market.

In the end, the wage is dictated, by the profit margin in the product and the number of units sold. When you find yourself in a company, there may be people who can work it out for themselves. If they are not sufficiently in the loop to understand the difference between what they can be paid, and what they want, and also where the value in the company comes from, the writing is on the wall.

You cannot afford to have people working in engineering at a level below that which they are capable. Even if it costs more to use them in that way. Not employing them if you know they are there, may seem like a solution. I'm not sure it is. It may be, but one must surely be satisfied that the company is sufficiently progressive, competitive and dynamic to survive.

From a management perspective I guess it's like eating Lotus. Fat and happy you reap the rewards of management, unable to see the slide.

Before you know it, the company is a service company again. Remember those, ahh yes, Service Industry Britain. Rather than make those things, the legacy is serviced. It's easy. No problems, consistent money..... Until the client realises that he can do what you're doing cheaper himself. Pop.

Edited by dilbert on Sunday 21st January 03:22

So you don't know what is concidered a good wage for an Engineer then......................

[che6mw]

starting salary: £25k
5 years in: £35 -£40k
topping out at £60k

above assumes working for blue chip company as regular employee. Salary would increase if you moved to managerial role, or consultancy.

[jacko lah]

che6mw said:

starting salary: £25k
5 years in: £35 -£40k
topping out at £60k

above assumes working for blue chip company as regular employee. Salary would increase if you moved to managerial role, or consultancy.

In the Automotive Supply Chain, I've worked for Lucas (Lucas Engineering and Systems, Lucas Control Systems Products, Lucas Automotive Electrical Systems) , and Garrett (Honeywell Engine Boosting Systems) and now I work for a company who supply off highway (Diggers)

Starting Salary for a Graduate off a Sandwich Degree is about £19K and Expect to Get no more than £28-£30K after 10 years, If you move into management you'll get £33-£40K and have to have a personallity transplant.

[scoobiewrx]

Nothng wrong with being a manager. It a very difficult and tough job, and most managers are disliked because people don't like being managed. There are bad managers out there that give managers a bad reputation at times but on the whole good managers are worth their weight in gold,and there are plenty out there!!

So....all of you non manager's out there....when the project doesn't come in on time due to time or budget contraints or something doesn't happen that needed to happen, guess who gets it in the neck straight away, and is more likely to ultimately lose their job.....The manager, not those being managed.

[dcb]

che6mw said:

starting salary: £25k
5 years in: £35 -£40k
topping out at £60k

above assumes working for blue chip company as regular employee. Salary would increase if you moved to managerial role, or consultancy.

These seem very high numbers to me. About 20K for
a starter seems more likely.

I can agree that in the thirties for five years experience is common,
but I have never heard of any engineer getting over forty
for a regular permie salary.

Of course, contract rates are totally different and management
permie rates different again.

[che6mw]

I can only quote my numbers from experience. Although i've left the sector now I graduated in 2001 as a Chemical Engineer and my starting salary was £25k. So I've not even factored in inflation in to those numbers. Infact a quick check of the website for the company I started with and their graduates now start on £30-£34k.

[scoobiewrx]

dcb said:

che6mw said:

starting salary: £25k
5 years in: £35 -£40k
topping out at £60k

above assumes working for blue chip company as regular employee. Salary would increase if you moved to managerial role, or consultancy.

These seem very high numbers to me. About 20K for
a starter seems more likely.

I can agree that in the thirties for five years experience is common,
but I have never heard of any engineer getting over forty
for a regular permie salary.

Of course, contract rates are totally different and management
permie rates different again.

Actually DCB i have placed plenty of engineers that earn £40K+. Only recently i place a chap at £61K. Not even a manager...just a bloody good engineer although they are few and far between at that salary level...but i know plenty earning £45K - £50K, and that is not uncommon.

[jacko lah]

scoobiewrx said:

Nothng wrong with being a manager. It a very difficult and tough job, and most managers are disliked because people don't like being managed. There are bad managers out there that give managers a bad reputation at times but on the whole good managers are worth their weight in gold,and there are plenty out there!!

So....all of you non manager's out there....when the project doesn't come in on time due to time or budget contraints or something doesn't happen that needed to happen, guess who gets it in the neck straight away, and is more likely to ultimately lose their job.....The manager, not those being managed.

I guess that I've seen both sides of this. It's way so much more complex than you paint it.