Discussion
Tim Pace said:
With 65 million people in the UK and only 11,000 distributors we have some way to go before we have any saturation problems.
Or to look at it another wayArea of UK - 96000sq/m
Kleeneze guys - 11000
= 8.5 square miles territory each.
Take out the highlands (10000sq/m) and you're down to 7.5 miles each, not to mention vast areas of rural England reducing that further. I'd think a Kleeneze guy every few miles is the definition of saturation, unless of course large numbers of that 11000 are selling the sum total of f
k all, which I'd guess isn't miles from the truth.Like others I'm hugely dubious of the network marketing model and I work in marketing. It doesn't help when the proponents of it go to such lengths to justify themselves and the approach. It borders on weird imo.
technodup said:
Tim Pace said:
With 65 million people in the UK and only 11,000 distributors we have some way to go before we have any saturation problems.
Or to look at it another wayArea of UK - 96000sq/m
Kleeneze guys - 11000
= 8.5 square miles territory each.
Take out the highlands (10000sq/m) and you're down to 7.5 miles each, not to mention vast areas of rural England reducing that further. I'd think a Kleeneze guy every few miles is the definition of saturation, unless of course large numbers of that 11000 are selling the sum total of f
k all, which I'd guess isn't miles from the truth.Like others I'm hugely dubious of the network marketing model and I work in marketing. It doesn't help when the proponents of it go to such lengths to justify themselves and the approach. It borders on weird imo.
One of our distributors manages to do over £1k per month from a small Scottish village and surrounding areas with more sheep than people. No justification needed it's just amazing that people ignore the facts or choose to ignore them. Not all distributors are active but 11,000 are however market research gives us another fact. around 75% of the population does not receive a catalogue on a regular basis. Many territories also overlap as we do not designated areas. Whatever your personal beliefs are network marketing works.
Tim Pace said:
A lot of what has been said recently is true most organisations are run on the format of a pyramid of some description whilst in some companies where salaries are negotiated in may be possible to be paid more than other members of staff. I'm not trying to prove that network marketing is perfect it's simply a method of product distribution that is moral ethical and fair. With value flowing down and money generated from customer sales flowing back through the business to pay the bonuses and expand the business.
You're conflating pyramid structure with pyramid scheme again, Tim. That's nonsensical. I've already pointed out to you that the two are completely different.The Kleeneze videos are a big no-no, for me. The presentations have little in the way of content, just a lot of 'I'm so excited. This opportunity is amazing. It'll change your life'.
Tim Pace said:
A lot of what has been said recently is true most organisations are run on the format of a pyramid of some description whilst in some companies where salaries are negotiated in may be possible to be paid more than other members of staff. I'm not trying to prove that network marketing is perfect it's simply a method of product distribution that is moral ethical and fair. With value flowing down and money generated from customer sales flowing back through the business to pay the bonuses and expand the business.
The UK law states it's "illegal to operate a scheme were a payment is made for recruiting people" no such payment is made by Kleeneze. In most companies sales managers are paid a performance related bonus based on the team or area they manage. Kleeneze distributors pay nothing out of their profits to support team leaders they keep 100% of their profits. Kleeneze pay the bonuses direct to distributors who run teams. There is no necessity to recruit anyone in fact 95% of distributors are not interested in doing it at all. With 65 million people in the UK and only 11,000 distributors we have some way to go before we have any saturation problems. Kleeneze move millions of pounds of products every year to customers not family friends or other distributors via catalogues and more recently online websites offered to distributors. I think I have said there are people earning £40k plus per year just distributing catalogues. With no desire to recruit anyone all keeping 100% of the profit they make. You cannot run a business in the UK like Kleeneze had for 91 years and be operating illegally.
We are held in high regard too recently been invited to advertise and work with the government run jobs search site to offer unemployed people the chance to move into self employment. I agree that if just one or two aspects of our business model are changed you have something illegal. But that can be said for many businesses. If a shortcut is to be made or a way of scamming someone will find it. That's why we are controlled by strict laws and the DSA exists.
I read your posts back from 2010 when you were earning £35k between you and your wife working 7 days a week. Nearly 5 years later and you're earning £40k a year, and having had to work continually to get to this stage, albeit with reduced hours it would seem now. The UK law states it's "illegal to operate a scheme were a payment is made for recruiting people" no such payment is made by Kleeneze. In most companies sales managers are paid a performance related bonus based on the team or area they manage. Kleeneze distributors pay nothing out of their profits to support team leaders they keep 100% of their profits. Kleeneze pay the bonuses direct to distributors who run teams. There is no necessity to recruit anyone in fact 95% of distributors are not interested in doing it at all. With 65 million people in the UK and only 11,000 distributors we have some way to go before we have any saturation problems. Kleeneze move millions of pounds of products every year to customers not family friends or other distributors via catalogues and more recently online websites offered to distributors. I think I have said there are people earning £40k plus per year just distributing catalogues. With no desire to recruit anyone all keeping 100% of the profit they make. You cannot run a business in the UK like Kleeneze had for 91 years and be operating illegally.
We are held in high regard too recently been invited to advertise and work with the government run jobs search site to offer unemployed people the chance to move into self employment. I agree that if just one or two aspects of our business model are changed you have something illegal. But that can be said for many businesses. If a shortcut is to be made or a way of scamming someone will find it. That's why we are controlled by strict laws and the DSA exists.
So is it combined at £40k for you and the wife - if so, that's about £50 a day each after tax after working for 7 years, mostly 7 days a week.
Now you mention a number of your team members, so you're a manager - with I would imagine some of the responsibilities - of a team of salesmen, earning £50 per day - with no benefits/holiday/healthcare.
I'd call that a "Failure"
Are you aware of how brainwashed you are?
Sorry I have not replied, been busy I have not worked 7 days a week for a long time now interesting to think I'm a failure I don't class earning an ongoing living wage regardless of if I get out of bed or not a failure. I could stop if I chose and the income would still come in.
Our product line has indeed changed dramatically we now offer high end goods too in fact we have Been forced to move out of the old style products because of pound shops we do carry them but most of our orders now come from personalised goods and such things like kitchen equipment, some electrical goods as well as services. Our online shops are growing fast. Each distributor has there own. Large orders comming from Facebook and online only customer email loops that we run.
Our Internet specials prove very popular and many people have chose not to deliver catalogues at all now concentrating on ecommerce eventually it will all be done this way I presume.
Mod note: No links, ta.
Our product line has indeed changed dramatically we now offer high end goods too in fact we have Been forced to move out of the old style products because of pound shops we do carry them but most of our orders now come from personalised goods and such things like kitchen equipment, some electrical goods as well as services. Our online shops are growing fast. Each distributor has there own. Large orders comming from Facebook and online only customer email loops that we run.
Our Internet specials prove very popular and many people have chose not to deliver catalogues at all now concentrating on ecommerce eventually it will all be done this way I presume.
Edited by Tim Pace on Thursday 27th November 08:21
Mod note: No links, ta.
Edited by Bill on Thursday 27th November 11:50
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